If the Green Party got into government are they mad

thecretinhop

lawred2 wrote: »

cutelad wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.

Can they be any worse than FFG?

We've got about a decade to provide a future for our children. It's clear FFG have no credentials in this regard.

its hard believe grown adults believe this its all over in 11 years. my god.
de clown al gore said the same 20 years ago... while living in a huge mansion and flying private jet rlol

JJayoo

skooterblue2 wrote: »

JJayoo wrote: »

Green party should focus on making the environment work for the people. Why hasn't work started on the 90 solar farms that have planning permission? Because government won't garentee to buy the clean electricity. This for example would be an easy subject for green party to get behind instead of non stop ****e about bikes in dublin

Those solar farms are a load of rubbish. Yes they do make free energy but not fast enough to cover the cost of manufacture and installation. .

Solar farms are a great idea, the construction is minimal, the land is still fully available for grazing of sheep, the panels reduce wind so grass growth increases and they are beneficial for smaller mammals, tho this is more so in the UK as they have a lot more small mammals.

It also adds profit to 'poor' land. My only issue is that solar panel technology is still in its early stages and you would want a scheme in which you could upgrade your panels every 5 years or so for the better technology.

skooterblue2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

But we haven't based our economy on oil exports?

True but we are based around American based MNC. We do massive food trade with China. What do you think would happen if we started a trade war with these countries. Did you ever see a mouse rape an elephant?

skooterblue2

thecretinhop wrote: »

its hard believe grown adults believe this its all over in 11 years. my god.
de clown al gore said the same 20 years ago... while living in a huge mansion and flying private jet rlol

Sure I remember coming home scared from primary school if there was a nuclear war we would be all be done for. 90's Saddam Hussein had Chemical weapons..... Bogie man stories for children to keep their minds occupied.

skooterblue2

JJayoo wrote: »

Solar farms are a great idea, the construction is minimal, the land is still fully available for grazing of sheep, the panels reduce wind so grass growth increases and they are beneficial for smaller mammals, tho this is more so in the UK as they have a lot more small mammals.

It also adds profit to 'poor' land. My only issue is that solar panel technology is still in its early stages and you would want a scheme in which you could upgrade your panels every 5 years or so for the better technology.

You arent covering the cost of manufacture. If you have to upgrade them every 5 years then they have a shorter life than a washing machine!! They are useless. The real truth is there is a lot of hedgefund money in their development that is failing to materialise. In short they dont work.

Nobelium

BarryD2 wrote: »

I wouldn't go that far now at all. Greens are generally thoughtful & well meaning. Just become too urban focused and blind to the wider consequences of their policies.

Some people have very short memories. The greens knew fine well what they were doing with FF from 2007-11. They supported, defended, and propped up their corrupt cronie capitalism right to the bitter end and bankrupted our country, destroyed thousands of lives, and forced an entire generation to emigrate yet again . .and we will be paying their debts for generations to come. This is the same party that preached to us in cahoots with the SIMI and the Germans that Diesel cars were environmentally friendly.

JJayoo

skooterblue2 wrote: »

JJayoo wrote: »

Solar farms are a great idea, the construction is minimal, the land is still fully available for grazing of sheep, the panels reduce wind so grass growth increases and they are beneficial for smaller mammals, tho this is more so in the UK as they have a lot more small mammals.

It also adds profit to 'poor' land. My only issue is that solar panel technology is still in its early stages and you would want a scheme in which you could upgrade your panels every 5 years or so for the better technology.

You arent covering the cost of manufacture. If you have to upgrade them every 5 years then they have a shorter life than a washing machine!! They are useless. The real truth is there is a lot of hedgefund money in their development that is failing to materialise. In short they dont work.

You don't get how upgrades work? When you upgrade your car do you bring your existing car to get crushed? Or is it taken and sold on again?

The point of this thread is the green party, if your only concern is your carbon footprint then simply don't have kids or pets and try not to live too long.

swarlb

Macha wrote: »

UN climate scientists say we have 11 years left to halve global emissions. In that context, the Green Party would be mad not to go into government in the near future, given the time lag between policy decisions and implementation.

Add to that the irreparable damage of plastics and the escalating biodiversity crisis.

11 years left ?

What exactly does that mean, 11 years before the 'end of the world' or in 11 years we'll be unable to breathe because the air will be toxic, and there will be no food left to eat, or water to drink.
What EXACTLY does it mean ???
10 years ago John Gormley told us we had '10 years left' to save the planet.
Don't get me wrong, I'd actually vote for a Green candidate, but I'm kind of wondering.. 'When will it all end'
At the rate they are going there seems little sense in actually looking forward to a future, little sense in bothering to have any children (as we only have 11 years left), little sense in signing a mortgage agreement, little sense in bothering to study in order to get a decent education, and a decent job.
The whole climate change debate is relentless to the point of getting boring, almost like Brexit.
Someone needs to explain EXACTLY what is happening, in coherent understandable terms, and not the usual scaremongering babbletalk.
If Ireland, tomorrow, completely stopped ALL emissions, would that mean we'd have 11.2 years left (and loads of spare cash, because of the money saved on fines) because in the grand scheme of things Ireland means feck all in global terms, and unless EVERY country on the plant conforms there is little point in even having a debate.

Dakota Dan

Macha wrote: »

UN climate scientists say we have 11 years left to halve global emissions. In that context, the Green Party would be mad not to go into government in the near future, given the time lag between policy decisions and implementation.

Add to that the irreparable damage of plastics and the escalating biodiversity crisis.

The UN said no such thing.

biko

4 years left to save the world - 2009

biko

If the Greens wants to come across as serious, drop all the lefty bias and focus on two things:
What people can do at home to be greener.
Put pressure on the government and EU to force Asia stop dumping chemicals and plastic in the rivers and oceans.

relax carry on

Dakota Dan wrote: »

The UN said no such thing.

Think that's it.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2019/ga12131.doc.htm

Only 11 years Left to Prevent Irreversible Damage from Climate Change, Speakers Warn during General Assembly High-Level Meeting.

Nobelium

biko wrote: »

If the Greens wants to come across as serious, drop all the lefty bias and focus on two things:
What people can do at home to be greener.
Put pressure on the government and EU to force Asia stop dumping chemicals and plastic in the rivers and oceans.

Also stop threatening people with extortionate carbon taxes who can least afford to pay them (ordinary working people), while protecting the rich from paying any.

Dakota Dan

lawred2 wrote: »

Can they be any worse than FFG?

We've got about a decade to provide a future for our children. It's clear FFG have no credentials in this regard.

There’s a uk politician that wants to combat climate change his proposal is to cut the working week to 10 hours and cut wages by 75%, are you game for that because this is the crazy sh1te that they’ll bring in.

relax carry on

So is the general consensus that there is a massive problem with climate change and it's impacts? If so, is the argument then that the Green party and it's policies aren't actually what's needed to do anything to address the issue of climate change? What party and polices would people support to tackle climate change?

Dakota Dan

relax carry on wrote: »

Think that's it.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2019/ga12131.doc.htm

Only 11 years Left to Prevent Irreversible Damage from Climate Change, Speakers Warn during General Assembly High-Level Meeting.

Media exaggerating again.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.axios.com/climate-change-scientists-comment-ocasio-cortez-12-year-deadline-c4ba1f99-bc76-42ac-8b93-e4eaa926938d.html

skooterblue2

Have a look at all these climate change policies. They arent real or tangible, like reducing half of carbon emissions. They are about if you dont reach these impossible targets we are going to tax the ass off you. Not that we arent over taxed as we are but lets put the final nail in the coffin.

Nobelium

relax carry on wrote: »

So is the general consensus that there is a massive problem with climate change and it's impacts? If so, is the argument then that the Green party and it's policies aren't actually what's needed to do anything to address the issue of climate change? What party and polices would people support to tackle climate change?

No political party, including the so called "Green" party, is interested in going after the worst polluters and largest destroyers of the planet.

In reality, it's all about money, power, and taxation, and fck all about the environment, which is just the current convenient moral high ground excuse to hide behind and manipulate.

skooterblue2

relax carry on wrote: »

Think that's it.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2019/ga12131.doc.htm

Only 11 years Left to Prevent Irreversible Damage from Climate Change, Speakers Warn during General Assembly High-Level Meeting.

Wait until you have a few grey hairs. Every few years there is a new crisis. Just something new to keep the plebs busy while the NWO gets on with the real business of screwing the ordinary people.

LeinsterDub

JJayoo wrote: »

Green party should focus on making the environment work for the people. Why hasn't work started on the 90 solar farms that have planning permission? Because government won't garentee to buy the clean electricity. This for example would be an easy subject for green party to get behind instead of non stop ****e about bikes in dublin

You're aware the green party aren't in government right? They are calling for this but FG and their silent partners FF aren't interested

Castlekeeper

biko wrote: »

4 years left to save the world - 2009

That makes sense considering it means saving the world in the "present" state, which is not a very ambitious aim, given a continually declining one for air and sea pollution, biodiversity and habitat and soil loss, food quality and security. Climate change in itself might be the most abstract and indirect issues for many in the world.

A lot of trolling going on here.

bfa1509

Macha wrote: »

UN climate scientists say we have 11 years left to halve global emissions.

lawred2 wrote: »

We've got about a decade to provide a future for our children.

I can't help but laugh at this level of alarmism. I'm sorry if you believe it and are genuinely living in fear.

In 30 years from now, your children and your children's children will be perfectly fine. There isn't a shred of evidence to suggest that the changes in climate are caused by, nor can be rectified by human interference.

relax carry on

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Media exaggerating again.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.axios.com/climate-change-scientists-comment-ocasio-cortez-12-year-deadline-c4ba1f99-bc76-42ac-8b93-e4eaa926938d.html

Interesting article that seems to say it's pretty bad already.

"12 years isn't a deadline, and climate change isn't a cliff we fall off — it's a slope we slide down," said Kate Marvel, a climate scientist at NASA. "We don't have 12 years to prevent climate change — we have no time. It's already here.

Katharine Hayhoe, a climate scientist at Texas Tech University, told Axios that the idea that there is only a finite amount of time to fix climate change is the wrong way to look at the problem. She summed up the IPCC's 1.5-degree report this way: "Every action matters. Every bit of warming matters. Every year matters. Every choice matters."

Hayhoe says she worries that deadlines will make people treat climate change more cavalierly to start, since 12 years can seem like a long time.

ancapailldorcha

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Media exaggerating again.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.axios.com/climate-change-scientists-comment-ocasio-cortez-12-year-deadline-c4ba1f99-bc76-42ac-8b93-e4eaa926938d.html

Don't dump links here.

bfa1509 wrote: »

I can't help but laugh at this level of alarmism. I'm sorry if you believe it and are genuinely living in fear.

In 30 years from now, your children and your children's children will be perfectly fine. There isn't a shred of evidence to suggest that the changes in climate are caused by, nor can be rectified by human interference.

If you want to debate whether or not man made climate change is happening, do it in the appropriate forum please. This is not it.

James Brown

Blazer wrote: »

Its a complete waste of time.
A little country like Ireland wouldn't even make a dent in global emissions.
As long as the US/China/India and other developing nations continue to pollute the planet its basically a losing battle.
Its going to basically take a catastrophic event before we get our act together.

So you'd litter, because one piece isn't going to make much odds? I assume you don't bother voting either?
We can only look after our own backyard not China's.

joe40

The green party does not have the political organisation to be anything other than a junior partner in government.
However I do feel there is an appetite and insistence on green policies which larger parties will adopt.
This has to be more imaginative and progressive than simply carbon taxes where the cost will not be equally shared. Carbon taxes will play a part though.
There is no one policy that will help things and ultimately change will have to come about on a global level.
For that reason I'm not hopeful, but at the same time not a reason to do nothing.

RandomName2

Macha wrote: »

UN climate scientists say we have 11 years left to halve global emissions. In that context, the Green Party would be mad not to go into government in the near future, given the time lag between policy decisions and implementation.

Add to that the irreparable damage of plastics and the escalating biodiversity crisis.

I didn't realize the Green Party was running for office in China.

Forgive my cynicism, but in 2014 Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions were 58.3 million tonnes of carbon dioxide in 2017 China's was 10877.218 million tonnes.

That means that at current rates, it will currently take Ireland until the year 2204 to produce as much carbon dioxide as China did in a single year.

Shefwedfan

RandomName2 wrote: »

I didn't realize the Green Party was running for office in China.

Forgive my cynicism, but in 2014 Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions were 58.3 million tonnes of carbon dioxide in 2017 China's was 10877.218 million tonnes.

That means that at current rates, it will currently take Ireland until the year 2204 to produce as much carbon dioxide as China did in a single year.

What is the carbon per person?



I think you can agree a few more people live in China?

skooterblue2

RandomName2 wrote: »

I didn't realize the Green Party was running for office in China.

Forgive my cynicism, but in 2014 Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions were 58.3 million tonnes of carbon dioxide in 2017 China's was 10877.218 million tonnes.

That means that at current rates, it will currently take Ireland until the year 2204 to produce as much carbon dioxide as China did in a single year.

You would want to stop looking at the UN not as benevolent fraternity of discussion and sending relief. They have hidden agendas and do a lot of movement in the background and get other countries do intervene on their behalf. I have no problem with Russia/USA/China/EU acting in their own self interest but the UN is drifting towards globalised government.

Elemonator

They may have taxed the hilt out of us but I wouldn't mind high taxes as long as we got something in return. Scandinavian countries come to mind and the effective tax rate there has hit higher rates than here at different points in time.

They may have taxed the hilt out of us but they were ultimately proven right.

Nobelium

Elemonator wrote: »

They may have taxed the hilt out of us but I wouldn't mind high taxes as long as we got something in return. Scandinavian countries come to mind and the effective tax rate there has hit higher rates than here at different points in time.

They may have taxed the hilt out of us but they were ultimately proven right.

what exactly did you get out of the green party when they were in power from 2007-2011 ?

Nobelium

RandomName2 wrote: »

I didn't realize the Green Party was running for office in China.

Forgive my cynicism, but in 2014 Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions were 58.3 million tonnes of carbon dioxide in 2017 China's was 10877.218 million tonnes.

That means that at current rates, it will currently take Ireland until the year 2204 to produce as much carbon dioxide as China did in a single year.

yeah but it's important to carbon tax you instead of the wealthy or multinationals.

suicide_circus

Elemonator wrote: »

They may have taxed the hilt out of us

i suppose that means they taxed us to the sh1t?

Wanderer78

Elemonator wrote: »

They may have taxed the hilt out of us but I wouldn't mind high taxes as long as we got something in return. Scandinavian countries come to mind and the effective tax rate there has hit higher rates than here at different points in time.

They may have taxed the hilt out of us but they were ultimately proven right.

its interesting to see the same Scandinavian countries are divesting their sovereign wealth funds away from fossil fuels

cutelad

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Green Party aside, do you think that is sustainable for the environment?

What would your solution be getting to work? Bus? Good luck with public transport in rural Ireland.

cutelad

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Why would they "tax the hilt out of us"?

That is all they are saying in media. Talking to family this week over dinner and the thought of Green getting into power is exercising them to vote to keep them out of power.

cutelad

Grudaire wrote: »

What about the costs and unconvince in the near future from not making some changes now?

Provide the country people with an alternative. How about making recycling totally free. Start with getting all government staff in Dublin to get public transport and remove parking. A couple solutions there for you

Macha

RandomName2 wrote: »

I didn't realize the Green Party was running for office in China.

Forgive my cynicism, but in 2014 Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions were 58.3 million tonnes of carbon dioxide in 2017 China's was 10877.218 million tonnes.

That means that at current rates, it will currently take Ireland until the year 2204 to produce as much carbon dioxide as China did in a single year.

And right now people in China are probably saying why should we do anything, places like Ireland have per capita emissions far higher than ours.

So we all sit in our hands and do nothing?

I wonder if we were all on a sinking ship would we bicker this much about who's fault it is or would we all get bailing as fast as possible.

Macha

cutelad wrote: »

That is all they are saying in media. Talking to family this week over dinner and the thought of Green getting into power is exercising them to vote to keep them out of power.

That's based on the assumption that we're not already paying for it.

We pay for air pollution through the pressure on our health care system, health impacts, premature deaths etc. We pay for it through congestion and the costs of running multiple cars per household. We pay for it though budget insurance premiums due to increased storm surges, floods etc. We are paying for it though higher food prices: last year European crop yields were down 12% due to the drought. How much have Irish farmers been bailed out for weather related impacts?

These are just a few examples.

Um, do you have any children in your family? Do you heavy any concerns about what they will have to face in the future?

A Shropshire Lad

At least the Greens kind of stand for something real. I have no idea what FF, FG etc stand for.

But I dont think people will be running out tovote Green in a general election. People will stop worrying about the future of the planet then and think about more immediate things like taxation, jobs and the Luas extending to Tralee

Shefwedfan

Macha wrote: »

And right now people in China are probably saying why should we do anything, places like Ireland have per capita emissions far higher than ours.

So we all sit in our hands and do nothing?

I wonder if we were all on a sinking ship would we bicker this much about who's fault it is or would we all get bailing as fast as possible.

China are investing hugely in green technology. They are the largest market at the moment for electric cars and it is growing. They are swapping buses to electric etc....


Large apartment been build with trees etc in the design. They are doing a lot more than Ireland and we could easily be the envy of the rest of the World....but we are falling a mile behind them

Nobelium

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

At least the Greens kind of stand for something real.

You must be joking. Reality and the green party are complete opposites.

Wanderer78

Nobelium wrote: »

You must be joking. Reality and the green party are complete opposites.

please explain?

Jupiter Mulligan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

please explain?

Reality is worrying about how you'll pay the mortgage, tax the car, insure the house and buy the kids' school uniforms and books all from this month's pay cheque.

The Green Party is about saving the planet and has nothing - repeat absolutely nothing - to offer that can address the above real-world problems.

Although, in fairness, Trevor Sargent would probably suggest growing one's own vegetables to help reduce the monthly food bill.

Shefwedfan

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

Reality is worrying about how you'll pay the mortgage, tax the car, insure the house and buy the kids' school uniforms and books all from this month's pay cheque.

The Green Party is about saving the planet and has nothing - repeat absolutely nothing - to offer that can address the above real-world problems.

Although, in fairness, Trevor Sargent would probably suggest growing one's own vegetables to help reduce the monthly food bill.

Reality is if the Green party do get in they will have little power to make massive changes which you suggest are suddenly going to stop you paying mortgage etc....


That will be done by the main party in power, they might dress it up as a Green party decision because they will know it is unpopular


No matter what party is in power, Green, Red, Blue etc....you are going to have to start either
A. Pay more tax to cover the CO2 fines
B. Start making changes in your everyday life to reduce CO2 emmisions...


So far the carrot option byt the government has failed to work....the only option it seems that Irish people understand is taxing the ass out of stuff

Nobelium

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No matter what party is in power, Green, Red, Blue etc....you are going to have to start either
A. Pay more tax to cover the CO2 fines
B. Start making changes in your everyday life to reduce CO2 emmisions...

So far the carrot option byt the government has failed to work....the only option it seems that Irish people understand is taxing the ass out of stuff

So it's all about paying carbon taxes for the wealthy, who won't have to pay a cent . .

How many hard pushed working families in the real world, commuting long distances to work every day, through no choice, can afford to switch to a new battery powered cars every couple of years ? How many will be able to afford to spend 10's of thousands along with some grants, retro-fitting competely new heating and power systems etc. ? You're living in cloud cookoo land like the green party. An awful lot of people trying to pay a mortgage and bring up a family can barely afford a fill of oil to heat their houses in one of the dampest, darkest wettest countries in Europe. You sound like some spoiled teenager in a Dublin 4 bedroom with no idea of reality.

Meanwhile all the real C02 polluters like the energy companies, and multinational corporations, and countries like China etc. get away without paying a cent.

Mancomb Seepgood

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

Reality is worrying about how you'll pay the mortgage, tax the car, insure the house and buy the kids' school uniforms and books all from this month's pay cheque.

The Green Party is about saving the planet and has nothing - repeat absolutely nothing - to offer that can address the above real-world problems.

Although, in fairness, Trevor Sargent would probably suggest growing one's own vegetables to help reduce the monthly food bill.

If you believe we face a serious environmental crisis,then saving the planet is a real world problem.It also affects so many aspects of everyday life:unstable weather patterns affect food prices,insurance costs are affected by extreme weather events.The fines that are coming down the line will be paid for out of taxation,the only question is how that will be paid for.

Kermit.de.frog

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So far the carrot option byt the government has failed to work....the only option it seems that Irish people understand is taxing the ass out of stuff

And a party that tries to "tax the ass off us" in government will, rightly, be punished.

Jupiter Mulligan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Reality is if the Green party do get in they will have little power to make massive changes which you suggest are suddenly going to stop you paying mortgage etc....

I made no such suggestion.

If you are wholly incapable of understanding my posts, then might I suggest that you add me to your ignore list?

Shefwedfan

Nobelium wrote: »

So it's all about paying carbon taxes for the wealthy, who won't have to pay a cent . .

How many hard pushed working families in the real world, commuting long distances to work every day, through no choice, can afford to switch to a new battery powered cars every couple of years ? How many will be able to afford to spend 10's of thousands along with some grants, retro-fitting competely new heating and power systems etc. ? You're living in cloud cookoo land like the green party. An awful lot of people trying to pay a mortgage and bring up a family can barely afford a fill of oil to heat their houses in one of the dampest, darkest wettest countries in Europe. You sound like some spoiled teenager in a Dublin 4 bedroom with no idea of reality.

Meanwhile all the real C02 polluters like the energy companies, and multinational corporations, and countries like China etc. get away without paying a cent.

I think you need to stop pointing at China, you can't compare 5 million people with over a billion and expect them to have the same CO2. As I already posted China is doing a lot more than anything Ireland is doing


Am I a D4 teenager in a leafy suburbs?



You seem to have a major chip on your shoulder with people who have managed to get a decent job and make a living for themselves.



You don't need to spend 10's of thousands, small changes can make a big difference. How many houses in Ireland haven't bothered buying a few rolls of insulation and sticking into the attic? changing to eco bulbs