If the Green Party got into government are they mad

Podge_irl

Society has in many ways over the last 60-80 years been built around private motor transport. Living patterns and workplace locations have grown from access to cheap private transport.

Ultimately people are going to suffer with a change in focus, it is unavoidable. The best that can be done is to try and mitigate the worst effects for those who are least capable of facing them. Society, as a whole, will adapt and reap benefits but there will still be large swathes of people who this will negatively affect. However, that is simply not an argument for not doing it as the global consequences of doing nothing are far, far worse.

Shefwedfan

maccored wrote: »

the other option is petrol ... my point is public transport is not an option as there isnt any public transport options. as per my first post, my issue with carbon taxes is theres no public transport option to stop me from having to drive, therefore Im going to end up paying more money but still having to pollute the atmosphere. charging me more wont stop me having to drive. providing a public transport option will

For 40 miles you have diesel/petrol/hybrid/phev and electric. They are all options which would easily manage that commute. Before you say I am telling you to buy a new car, I am not, I am just saying when you do buy a new car you should look at options.

Just to clarify, do you have no public transport at all? or do you have no public transport which drives past your door when you want it to?

Ireland will need to move to transport hubs if people want to work in Dublin for "Dublin wages". Simple as that. Locations like M3 parkway etc will become more popular. Instead of driving from Navan to Dublin everyday people will need to get a bus from Navan to dublin, or better still they run the train to Navan.

These are just examples.

GreeBo

is_that_so wrote: »

This really is a bit silly as a post. Let's try a simple question. Why do you think the poster has such a long commute?

Because they work 40 miles away from where they live.

is_that_so wrote: »

Are you representative of Green thought on all of this? If so there is really no hope for any of us.

At last something we agree on. There indeed is no hope for those people who want it all handed to them. A similar cohort to the negative equity is someone elses fault gang I surmise.

blanch152

maccored wrote: »

theres this thing called 'work'. see, if you dont live in the city, you could find that your expertise in this thing called 'work' might not be next door to you. you might have to 'travel' .. that might be a new word for you as well. thats where you have to go from a to b using transport.

the government have this thing called 'public transport' - you know, the likes of those bus things and the luas that you might find in dublin - but outside cities, its a bit ****. where I am its none existent. if it wasnt non existent, then I would use it and wouldnt mind if fuel got more expensive. the problem is it isnt.

your answer is to get a job nearer my house. thats a stupid answer.

Now, while you wait on me to (for some reason) explain where my taxes go (wasnt that the question I was asking?) maybe you could explain to me where we're going to find the precious metals we need to make electric cars with because - as outlined earlier in an article about the subject - we might find (as many already suspect) that electric cars arent as green as you think they are.

I have argued for a long time that rural living, unless it is directly associated with the land (farming), or the immediate community (local services), is unsustainable because as in all countries across the world, city living is taking over.

You are eloquently making the case for same. You have to travel 40 miles each way for a commute which is damaging to the environment, jobs for your skills are not available in your locality, and the provision of public transport is uneconomical.

As you say, getting a job near your house is a stupid answer. Unfortunately for you, paying a high price in carbon taxes is the only alternative to moving house closer to where the jobs are.

is_that_so

GreeBo wrote: »

Because they work 40 miles away from where they live.



At last something we agree on. There indeed is no hope for those people who want it all handed to them. A similar cohort to the negative equity is someone elses fault gang I surmise.

And somehow you didn't manage to wonder why they live 40 miles from work?

GreeBo

maccored wrote: »

theres this thing called 'work'. see, if you dont live in the city, you could find that your expertise in this thing called 'work' might not be next door to you. you might have to 'travel' .. that might be a new word for you as well. thats where you have to go from a to b using transport.

so its someone elses fault that you gained expertise in a field that you can only gain employment 40 miles from where you live?

maccored wrote: »

the government have this thing called 'public transport' - you know, the likes of those bus things and the luas that you might find in dublin - but outside cities, its a bit ****. where I am its none existent. if it wasnt non existent, then I would use it and wouldnt mind if fuel got more expensive. the problem is it isnt.

Yes the big cities. Where the majority of the big people live.

maccored wrote: »

your answer is to get a job nearer my house. thats a stupid answer.

No, its a realistic answer. Your argument is that someone else should get you out of a mess of your own making.

maccored wrote: »

Now, while you wait on me to (for some reason) explain where my taxes go (wasnt that the question I was asking?) maybe you could explain to me where we're going to find the precious metals we need to make electric cars with because - as outlined earlier in an article about the subject - we might find (as many already suspect) that electric cars arent as green as you think they are.

No, I asked you who do you think pays for all the public services you utilise?

Maybe you could explain to me where we are going to find all the oil to satisfy the needs of the people who continue to take ridiculous commutes?

GreeBo

is_that_so wrote: »

And somehow you didn't manage to wonder why they live 40 miles from work?

Oh Im sure I can guess the reason.
Fat cat bankers?

is_that_so

GreeBo wrote: »

Oh Im sure I can guess the reason.
Fat cat bankers?

Of course it is. You've shown yourself to be quick to judgement and pretty low on any support of your very biased assumptions.

GreeBo

maccored wrote: »

the other option is petrol ... my point is public transport is not an option as there isnt any public transport options. as per my first post, my issue with carbon taxes is theres no public transport option to stop me from having to drive, therefore Im going to end up paying more money but still having to pollute the atmosphere. charging me more wont stop me having to drive. providing a public transport option will

Im confused. You initially said there was public transport. Now you keep saying there isnt. Which is it?
I asked earlier can you just leave earlier and you told me again there was no Public Transport. So what were you referring to in your post below?

maccored wrote: »

the question I have about the carbon tax is where are my alternatives? I drive 40 miles to work every day and there are no public or private tranport alternatives - certainly none that would get me to work on time.

GreeBo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ireland will need to move to transport hubs if people want to work in Dublin for "Dublin wages". Simple as that. Locations like M3 parkway etc will become more popular. Instead of driving from Navan to Dublin everyday people will need to get a bus from Navan to dublin, or better still they run the train to Navan.

These are just examples.

We have already had people say "oh but what if I want to do something after work".
People want to live in the middle of nowhere and then are up in arms when they dont have the same facilities as those living in a capital city.

Its ridiculous.

Macha

maccored wrote: »

the other option is petrol ... my point is public transport is not an option as there isnt any public transport options. as per my first post, my issue with carbon taxes is theres no public transport option to stop me from having to drive, therefore Im going to end up paying more money but still having to pollute the atmosphere. charging me more wont stop me having to drive. providing a public transport option will

I think it's worth clarifying that a carbon tax is not meant primarily to be a punishment. It first and foremost it is about making people cover the costs they put on others by emitting carbon and not paying for it.

By that I mean things like higher insurance premiums, damage from storm surges, adaptation costs, higher food prices etc etc etc.

Of course that inevitably makes high carbon-emitting activities more expensive and less attractive.

I take your point about there being few alternatives beyond moving job or home. And I think system change is so important precisely to make better choices easier and cheaper.

But that shouldn't stop the state from trying to recoup the costs of your activity. And of course the carbon tax can help fund that very system change - although climate action is so cost effective, the state should still find the money to invest regardless of any carbon tax revenues.

GreeBo

Macha wrote: »

the state should still find the money to invest regardless of any carbon tax revenues.

Exactly, ignoring climate change, it still makes sense to improve efficiencies where ever we can.

Shefwedfan

GreeBo wrote: »

We have already had people say "oh but what if I want to do something after work".
People want to live in the middle of nowhere and then are up in arms when they dont have the same facilities as those living in a capital city.

Its ridiculous.

Irish people need to complain, we could have the best public transport system in the world and unless it drives right past someone front door at exactly 8.07 when they want to leave they will not use it....

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

I have argued for a long time that rural living, unless it is directly associated with the land (farming), or the immediate community (local services), is unsustainable because as in all countries across the world, city living is taking over.

You are eloquently making the case for same. You have to travel 40 miles each way for a commute which is damaging to the environment, jobs for your skills are not available in your locality, and the provision of public transport is uneconomical.

As you say, getting a job near your house is a stupid answer. Unfortunately for you, paying a high price in carbon taxes is the only alternative to moving house closer to where the jobs are.

its not rural living per se though - i live in one small town, work in another small town. theres no transport links - bar the odd private bus.

I still stand by my point - all stick and no carrot isnt going to reduce the amount of people driving. if they dont have an option, then they will still drive and still pollute.

The Specialist

Podge_irl wrote: »

Society has in many ways over the last 60-80 years been built around private motor transport. Living patterns and workplace locations have grown from access to cheap private transport.

Ultimately people are going to suffer with a change in focus, it is unavoidable. The best that can be done is to try and mitigate the worst effects for those who are least capable of facing them. Society, as a whole, will adapt and reap benefits but there will still be large swathes of people who this will negatively affect. However, that is simply not an argument for not doing it as the global consequences of doing nothing are far, far worse.

Yeah because little old Ireland going back to the ****ing horse and cart is going to save the world :rolleyes: . The hysterical reaction to climate this year is beyond ridiculous and only gets more idiotic by the day especially in this country.

Podge_irl

The Specialist wrote: »

Yeah because little old Ireland going back to the ****ing horse and cart is going to save the world :rolleyes: . The hysterical reaction to climate this year is beyond ridiculous and only gets more idiotic by the day especially in this country.

Well the absolutely massive fines coming our way if we do nothing certainly won't help Ireland if you want to look at it on a purely selfish, short-term level.

maccored

https://www.gndforeurope.com/10-pillars-of-the-green-new-deal-for-europe

Point 2 is what i mean

PILLAR 2 PRESSING IDLE RESOURCES INTO PUBLIC SERVICE
The Green New Deal calls on public institutions to drive the economic and ecological transformation. The burden of our transition should not fall on the shoulders of working families.

Shefwedfan

The Specialist wrote: »

Yeah because little old Ireland going back to the ****ing horse and cart is going to save the world :rolleyes: . The hysterical reaction to climate this year is beyond ridiculous and only gets more idiotic by the day especially in this country.

Hysterical is exactly the word


Moving from diesel/petrol to Hybrid/electric is now the same as going back to horse and cart?


Small bit of an over reaction?

_blaaz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Hysterical is exactly the word


Moving from diesel/petrol to Hybrid/electric is now the same as going back to horse and cart?


Small bit of an over reaction?

Tbf the tech in electric cars isnt really suitable for ireland....if you put on your wipers etc it reduces the trip left on battery



Id imagine hybrid were the way forward surely??

_blaaz

blanch152 wrote: »

I have argued for a long time that rural living, unless it is directly associated with the land (farming), or the immediate community (local services), is unsustainable because as in all countries across the world, city living is taking over.

You are eloquently making the case for same. You have to travel 40 miles each way for a commute which is damaging to the environment, jobs for your skills are not available in your locality, and the provision of public transport is uneconomical.

As you say, getting a job near your house is a stupid answer. Unfortunately for you, paying a high price in carbon taxes is the only alternative to moving house closer to where the jobs are.

Mate dublin cant handle the population is in it....the government cant be aresd facing down nimbys to upgrade the public transport network to anything approaching necesscary standred


Surely the answer is to develop the econmy outside dublin??(but again this seems outside capacity of the government aswel?)....


telling lads to keep moving to dublin etc which are over crowded and congested to a ridcolus state for its size (easikly has worst quality of life for city its size i ever lived in)seems questionable advice??

tayto lover

blanch152 wrote: »

I have argued for a long time that rural living, unless it is directly associated with the land (farming), or the immediate community (local services), is unsustainable because as in all countries across the world, city living is taking over.

You are eloquently making the case for same. You have to travel 40 miles each way for a commute which is damaging to the environment, jobs for your skills are not available in your locality, and the provision of public transport is uneconomical.

As you say, getting a job near your house is a stupid answer. Unfortunately for you, paying a high price in carbon taxes is the only alternative to moving house closer to where the jobs are.

Ah FFS Blanch shure there’s no houses affordable in the city as you well know.
Not everyone likes to live in a city either. I wouldn’t live in Dublin if you tripled my wages.
Would we sell off the rest of the country when it’s not being used. Maybe the Chinese would buy it.

Shefwedfan

_blaaz wrote: »

Tbf the tech in electric cars isnt really suitable for ireland....if you put on your wipers etc it reduces the trip left on battery



Id imagine hybrid were the way forward surely??

The pub talk continues, turning on the wiper will not affect the range

Have you driven an electric car?

Ireland is actually perfect for electric cars because we are one of the smallest countries in Europe. The new cars coming out now will go from Belfast to Cork without the need to charge....that can be with the wipers on :P

_blaaz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The pub talk continues, turning on the wiper will not affect the range

Have you driven an electric car?

Yes i have.....prob more than most on here (and yes the range deos go down when wipers etc put on,the fact you think it wont is baffling)

Ireland is actually perfect for electric cars because we are one of the smallest countries in Europe. The new cars coming out now will go from Belfast to Cork without the need to charge....that can be with the wipers on :P

I hope so....but the tech will need to vastly improve imo.....its not good enough (its really bad,up til last year or 2..some still used brush driven motors ffs)......no.mind the fact that they are not safe in crashes imo,but that will soon be industry wide problem anyway



The fact is hybrids are the way forward,they offer best of both worlds....motors arent as efficent at high speeds at converting power to torque ???lads driving cork to brlfast at 75kph will die of boredom

Mancomb Seepgood

_blaaz wrote: »

Tbf the tech in electric cars isnt really suitable for ireland....if you put on your wipers etc it reduces the trip left on battery

Four years of driving electric cars in Ireland..this simply isn't true.Given the distances electric cars are now suitable for the majority of motorists in Ireland,certainly in 2019.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Macha wrote: »

I think it's worth clarifying that a carbon tax is not meant primarily to be a punishment. It first and foremost it is about making people cover the costs they put on others by emitting carbon and not paying for it.

By that I mean things like higher insurance premiums, damage from storm surges, adaptation costs, higher food prices etc etc etc.

Of course that inevitably makes high carbon-emitting activities more expensive and less attractive.

I take your point about there being few alternatives beyond moving job or home. And I think system change is so important precisely to make better choices easier and cheaper.

But that shouldn't stop the state from trying to recoup the costs of your activity. And of course the carbon tax can help fund that very system change - although climate action is so cost effective, the state should still find the money to invest regardless of any carbon tax revenues.

It's not like petrol/diesel aren't being highly taxed as it is; https://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/petrol-prices.aspx
Any additional increases in fuel prices, affects the prices in shop/supermarkets and what people may demand in wages increases (again affecting the cost to the consumer).
People like to think that it's just the "driver" that's subjected to the increased tax, but just about every item/service you consume has "carbon missions" behind it.

Shefwedfan

_blaaz wrote: »

Yes i have.....prob more than most on here (and yes the range deos go down when wipers etc put on,the fact you think it wont is baffling)



I hope so....but the tech will need to vastly improve imo.....its not good enough (its really bad,up til last year or 2..some still used brush driven motors ffs)......no.mind the fact that they are not safe in crashes imo,but that will soon be industry wide problem anyway



The fact is hybrids are the way forward,they offer best of both worlds....motors arent as efficent at high speeds at converting power to torque ???lads driving cork to brlfast at 75kph will die of boredom

I have an electric car for 3 years now. Are you really trying to tell me that the range will decrease by using the wipers? if that is the case then how much petrol/diesel is used to make the wipers work? At the end of the day electric is just a fuel, same as petrol and diesel.

Why are they not safe in crash? Tesla has the highest safety rating? most of the cars have been proved to be safe. Never seen anything saying they are not safe, maybe I missed it?

Hybrids have a place in market, I don't deny that.

Which lads exactly are driving from Belfast to Cork?

Shefwedfan

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

Four years of driving electric cars in Ireland..this simply isn't true.Given the distances electric cars are now suitable for the majority of motorists in Ireland,certainly in 2019.

You must not use the wipers....if you turn on the wipers you are f**ked :P

cutelad

A hard Brexit will put a stop to this Green over reaction. Tax Tax Tax. Oh lets put new buses into Dublin. But for the folks in rural Ireland lets double electricity bills for farmers, punish ordinary folk going to work.
Oh the green hipsters are loving it but lets see when our economy stalls a bit and people feel less money. I for one used recycle, used to try do small changes, so what does councils do, raise prices at dump, you'd need a degree to recycle plastics now. I've just given up.
I know of neibhours that burn there stuff now. The solution is make it cheaper and people will buy in. Make it expensive people will do the opposite

Shefwedfan

cutelad wrote: »

A hard Brexit will put a stop to this Green over reaction. Tax Tax Tax. Oh lets put new buses into Dublin. But for the folks in rural Ireland lets double electricity bills for farmers, punish ordinary folk going to work.
Oh the green hipsters are loving it but lets see when our economy stalls a bit and people feel less money. I for one used recycle, used to try do small changes, so what does councils do, raise prices at dump, you'd need a degree to recycle plastics now. I've just given up.
I know of neibhours that burn there stuff now. The solution is make it cheaper and people will buy in. Make it expensive people will do the opposite

How is recycling difficult?



Most providers have 2 - 3 bins. One for rubbish, one for recycling and one for food waste. My 6 year old knows which bin is which and how to use, I guess you are an adult so how exactly are you confused?


Also, burning rubbish is illegal.....

I live in Navan. Not really by choice though. We have a HUGE housing crisis.

The average couple earning the actual average wage can’t afford to live in Dublin. By actual I mean not the figure quoted in the media that less than half the country actually earns.

I drive to Dublin 6 days a week. It’s not that I don’t care about the environment, but having a job and a roof over my head comes first.

Worrying about the environment is a luxury that most of us can’t afford.

_blaaz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have an electric car for 3 years now. Are you really trying to tell me that the range will decrease by using the wipers? if that is the case then how much petrol/diesel is used to make the wipers work? At the end of the day electric is just a fuel, same as petrol and diesel.

It do go down on the electric vehicle in work anyway....its incomprehensible that you think using electirc ancillaries wont drain the battery

Why are they not safe in crash? Tesla has the highest safety rating? most of the cars have been proved to be safe. Never seen anything saying they are not safe, maybe I missed it?

They are made of plastic onto an aluminium frame,with little to no acrual steel in subframe (but tbf most cars are headed this.way anyway)

Hybrids have a place in market, I don't deny that.

Which lads exactly are driving from Belfast to Cork?

Any training course i ever done told that diesel to torque is more efficent at higher speed than via elec motor (toyota group lead the research in this area afaik)

_blaaz

OSI wrote: »

This wins retarded post of the month. By quite some margin. Congrats, some acheivment.

You dont think electric wipers use battery....pray tell how?

GreeBo

_blaaz wrote: »

Tbf the tech in electric cars isnt really suitable for ireland....if you put on your wipers etc it reduces the trip left on battery



Id imagine hybrid were the way forward surely??

Yeah...EVs are only suitable for countries that don't rain...or get dark.

maccored wrote: »

its not rural living per se though - i live in one small town, work in another small town. theres no transport links - bar the odd private bus.

I still stand by my point - all stick and no carrot isnt going to reduce the amount of people driving. if they dont have an option, then they will still drive and still pollute.

So you expect public transport to shuttle you to work between two small towns?
How many people do you think take the same commute?
I feel it would be a small bus tbh

GreeBo

_blaaz wrote: »

You dont think electric wipers use battery....pray tell how?

They use the same battery that your car uses.

_blaaz

GreeBo wrote: »

They use the same battery that your car uses.

Jesus...this like drawing teeth....and what drives the electric car

VinLieger

_blaaz wrote: »

You dont think electric wipers use battery....pray tell how?

What powers the battery to make the wipers work in a petrol or diesel car?

_blaaz

VinLieger wrote: »

What powers the battery to make the wipers work in a petrol or diesel car?

The altenator (which deosnt drain when car running due to altenator able to up its output when theres a draw)



This is like 1st day of fas again :pac:

maccored

GreeBo wrote: »

So you expect public transport to shuttle you to work between two small towns?
How many people do you think take the same commute?
I feel it would be a small bus tbh

i would expect public transport to transport the public - yes. the clue is in those two words - public and transport. You win though. if it stops me having to explain the concept of public transport to you, i'll say anything

Shefwedfan

_blaaz wrote: »

It do go down on the electric vehicle in work anyway....its incomprehensible that you think using electirc ancillaries wont drain the battery

Its incomprehensible that you continue to post about this ridiculous idea


The power used by the wipers is minuscule. Even if I turn on the car and just leave it going with the wipers all day I would lose exactly how much range?


That is what you said, not that they use electricity but that you will actually use range.



Since you went to FAS, please tell me on a 40kWh battery how much range I will lose from turning on the wipers.


I love it when posters are wrong instead of admitting it they just double down on it....

Shefwedfan

VinLieger wrote: »

What powers the battery to make the wipers work in a petrol or diesel car?

By the sounds of it people all around the World are spending million on fuel to power the wipers in cars.

I have an idea to reduce CO2, just take off wipers on cars....if people want them they can pull with a string and that will remove the huge requirement to power the wipers of Ireland.....

The lads in FAS know what is going on...

GreeBo

_blaaz wrote: »

The altenator (which deosnt drain when car running due to altenator able to up its output when theres a draw)



This is like 1st day of fas again :pac:

EVs have regenerative power which vastly outweighs the consumption from wipers.

The alternator isn't a magic source of free power. Its either slowing the car or you are using fuel.

GreeBo

maccored wrote: »

i would expect public transport to transport the public - yes. the clue is in those two words - public and transport. You win though. if it stops me having to explain the concept of public transport to you, i'll say anything

To what degree though?
You seem to expect that everyone in the country should have access to public transport for their commute.
And you think that this will be paid for out of
a) your 40% taxes
b) 10M spent on Trump.

about right?

maccored

GreeBo wrote: »

To what degree though?
You seem to expect that everyone in the country should have access to public transport for their commute.
And you think that this will be paid for out of
a) your 40% taxes
b) 10M spent on Trump.

about right?

as usual, nope. We need public transport as a carrot rather using taxes as a stick. I have no idea how you cant understand that. sticking you on ignore now, as nothing you've said so far has been of any use.

GreeBo

maccored wrote: »

as usual, nope. We need public transport as a carrot rather using taxes as a stick. I have no idea how you cant understand that. sticking you on ignore now, as nothing you've said so far has been of any use.

No one is saying we don't need public transport.
But you seem to expect that it will cater for *your* specific needs.

You are not "public", you are a single person.

Public transport is designed for the masses.

I'll ask again, how many people would you be sharing your public transport with every morning & evening?

_blaaz

GreeBo wrote: »

No one is saying we don't need public transport.
But you seem to expect that it will cater for *your* specific needs.

You are not "public", you are a single person.

Public transport is designed for the masses.

I'll ask again, how many people would you be sharing your public transport with every morning & evening?

Hardly much of an endorsement for public transport if you cant justify connecting two towns 40 miles apart with it??

blanch152

maccored wrote: »

as usual, nope. We need public transport as a carrot rather using taxes as a stick. I have no idea how you cant understand that. sticking you on ignore now, as nothing you've said so far has been of any use.

Public transport will not solve the problems of the last 50 years of spatial development.

Ireland is way behind other countries in terms of urbanisation, which makes it way behind in terms of solving the carbon issue with public transport. The only way we will meet our carbon targets is to effectively abandon one-off housing and many small villages and towns over the next 30 years. It is going to be a difficult time for many as a result, but it is happening anyway, as we have seen with banks, post offices, supermarkets etc. Next to go are petrol stations, and their convenience stores won't survive on their own in many cases.

Because successive governments, and even more so, local authorities, in particular Fianna Fail-led ones, indulged the mania for one-off housing and the idea that every village could be a full-service town, we have had a lost opportunity to create towns and cities of sufficient size to counter-balance Dublin and look after themselves. However, blaming Fianna Fail isn't the answer, it is the Irish people who have ignored this reality.

GreeBo

_blaaz wrote: »

Hardly much of an endorsement for public transport if you cant justify connecting two towns 40 miles apart with it??

The point is that its not "public" if its just you using it.
Unless of course you are willing to pay the €4,000 ticket price/day?

If so, I'm all for it.

You justify public transport by determining a public need. Again, 1 bloke going 40 miles between two rural towns every day isnt "public".

blanch152

_blaaz wrote: »

Mate dublin cant handle the population is in it....the government cant be aresd facing down nimbys to upgrade the public transport network to anything approaching necesscary standred


Surely the answer is to develop the econmy outside dublin??(but again this seems outside capacity of the government aswel?)....


telling lads to keep moving to dublin etc which are over crowded and congested to a ridcolus state for its size (easikly has worst quality of life for city its size i ever lived in)seems questionable advice??

Yes, the answer is to develop the economy outside Dublin, but not in Gweedore or Achill, only in cities such as Limerick, Galway, Cork and Waterford.

There will also be a place for large towns - Sligo, Carlow, Kilkenny, Tralee, Athlone etc., but for large parts of the country, hard choices will have to be made.

Can a county like Mayo support any development outside Ballina, Westport and Castlebar? Probably not.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Can we get back to the Green Party please? A general discussion of transport would be better in the infrastructure/transport forum.

GreeBo

For the foreseeable future the greens will always be a monitority in any government they form, so I would expect their policy making abilities to be low enough.

We might see a few things like plastic bag levy, but I cant see them being able to perform large scale overhaul, unless the main party is also onboard, and I only see that happening if its to avoid massive fines.