If the Green Party got into government are they mad

Shefwedfan

From a FG point of view it is a win win

They should have done something, even if small, last budget but they chickened out of it at the last min. Standard FG and can't make a decision.

Now they have seen the Green party voted in and even thought they have no power they are pointing to it, once the taxes hit then everyone will say it is because the green party are back in and FG will walk away with no bad rep

People need to wake up, first FG should have done this years ago, announcing another plan 6 months away from CO2 fines is stupid and pointless. Also what is the plan? no details at all....just another press release like so many others.....not a bit of action

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

From a FG point of view it is a win win

They should have done something, even if small, last budget but they chickened out of it at the last min. Standard FG and can't make a decision.

Now they have seen the Green party voted in and even thought they have no power they are pointing to it, once the taxes hit then everyone will say it is because the green party are back in and FG will walk away with no bad rep

People need to wake up, first FG should have done this years ago, announcing another plan 6 months away from CO2 fines is stupid and pointless. Also what is the plan? no details at all....just another press release like so many others.....not a bit of action

Likely you're right who ever of the two the Greens might go in with.
FG need to devise a quango. They're happy to bring in charges and the like if they can cream off the top by way of a sweet deal for someone, IMO.

tayto lover

The Greens will disappear in the same way they did last time if their policies inflict financial hardship on those who cannot afford it.
Whichever party backs them or uses their ideas to do like wise will disappear into obscurity just like FF did last time too.

The voters tend not to forget such actions.

Shefwedfan

tayto lover wrote: »

The Greens will disappear in the same way they did last time if their policies inflict financial hardship on those who cannot afford it.
Whichever party backs them or uses their ideas to do like wise will disappear into obscurity just like FF did last time too.

The voters tend not to forget such actions.

How exactly are the Green policies going to inflict financial hardship?

They have little to no power. If FG or FF turn around and say no to anything they put forward that is the end of it.


I am not Green party fan or supporter. But why people think the Green Party are in control is beyond me.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How exactly are the Green policies going to inflict financial hardship?

They have little to no power. If FG or FF turn around and say no to anything they put forward that is the end of it.


I am not Green party fan or supporter. But why people think the Green Party are in control is beyond me.

It's the perception. The Green party, as is will never be in the majority. They may come in and out as junior partner from time to time but they are seen as a one trick pony. What they need to do is show the electorate that green issues touch everything we do, housing, roads, industry not merely be seen as the schoolmasters cracking the stick to teach us what we must do. People will just tune out.

Shefwedfan

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's the perception. The Green party, as is will never be in the majority. They may come in and out as junior partner from time to time but they are seen as a one trick pony. What they need to do is show the electorate that green issues touch everything we do, housing, roads, industry not merely be seen as the schoolmasters cracking the stick to teach us what we must do. People will just tune out.

But my point is people blame the Greens for "inflict financial hardship"


In reality if the Greens had power they would have been making small changes for the last 3-4 years. This did not happen as we had a shower of idiots at the wheel. Now we will have a big bang approach

What the Greens need to do is a PR campaign pointing at the clowns who have made this mess for the last few years and they are not the ones pushing out these taxes....


Put it this way, if the Greens won no seats in local elections, FG would of had to come out and some stage and admit they made a pigs ear out of it and are going to tax us

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

But my point is people blame the Greens for "inflict financial hardship"


In reality if the Greens had power they would have been making small changes for the last 3-4 years. This did not happen as we had a shower of idiots at the wheel. Now we will have a big bang approach

What the Greens need to do is a PR campaign pointing at the clowns who have made this mess for the last few years and they are not the ones pushing out these taxes....


Put it this way, if the Greens won no seats in local elections, FG would of had to come out and some stage and admit they made a pigs ear out of it and are going to tax us

Carbon tax and affiliated environmental charges. The Greens would get the blame due to the perception that they represent charging everyone taxes for the environment and that's all they do. They need fight that with some positives IMO. Telling people we're in trouble and need to pay up is what comes across rightly or wrongly.
The time will come when we are forced to move towards green energy but by then we'll be in a worse situation.
Yes, I don't know how much longer this ponzi scheme of an economy can last. I think it's make hay while you can and if in power too long the wheels begin to come off.

Chips Lovell

The Greens didn't get wiped out in 2011 because of their environmental policies and taxes.

They and their coalition partners were voted out because they'd been in charge during the financial crisis and banking collapse. Proportionally, Fianna Fail almost lost as many votes as the Greens.

And voters do tend to forgive and forget. Both parties have since bounced back.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Carbon tax and affiliated environmental charges. The Greens would get the blame due to the perception that they represent charging everyone taxes for the environment and that's all they do. They need fight that with some positives IMO. Telling people we're in trouble and need to pay up is what comes across rightly or wrongly.
The time will come when we are forced to move towards green energy but by then we'll be in a worse situation.
Yes, I don't know how much longer this ponzi scheme of an economy can last. I think it's make hay while you can and if in power too long the wheels begin to come off.

The thing is, I am giving the Greens credit for carbon tax and affiliated environmental charges because those are measures that this country absolutely needs.

There are many like me.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The thing is, I am giving the Greens credit for carbon tax and affiliated environmental charges because those are measures that this country absolutely needs.

There are many like me.

They need show the benefits though, otherwise it's perceived as just another tax to throw money down some ill conceived hole.

GreeBo

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They need show the benefits though, otherwise it's perceived as just another tax to throw money down some ill conceived hole.

Are the benefits not obvious though?

James Brown

GreeBo wrote: »

Are the benefits not obvious though?

I don't think so. If you listen to people complain about the Greens it doesn't go beyond there being another or higher taxes.

eagle eye

blanch152 wrote:

The thing is, I am giving the Greens credit for carbon tax and affiliated environmental charges because those are measures that this country absolutely needs.

There are many like me.

When we hear them talk about grounding all planes and stopping the production of mobile phones, tablets and shutting data centres then we will take them seriously.
The ordinary man isn't living a bountiful life in this country. We can't afford to go green and punishing us with more taxes is only going to slow things down. Shut down or heavily tax airlines and tech producers and it'll improve things for everybody.

blanch152

eagle eye wrote: »

When we hear them talk about grounding all planes and stopping the production of mobile phones, tablets and shutting data centres then we will take them seriously.
The ordinary man isn't living a bountiful life in this country. We can't afford to go green and punishing us with more taxes is only going to slow things down. Shut down or heavily tax airlines and tech producers and it'll improve things for everybody.

By the standards of this planet, the ordinary man is living a bountiful life in this country. That is part of the problem. Now that will take much longer to sort, but we need to start taking steps like carbon taxes to do that.

GreeBo

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I don't think so. If you listen to people complain about the Greens it doesn't go beyond there being another or higher taxes.

I think people just (lazily) complain about taxes.

eagle eye

blanch152 wrote:

By the standards of this planet, the ordinary man is living a bountiful life in this country. That is part of the problem. Now that will take much longer to sort, but we need to start taking steps like carbon taxes to do that.

We need to start a punishing airlines and those producing mobile phones, tablets and those operating data centres which is doing much more damage to the environment than regular people are.

blanch152

eagle eye wrote: »

We need to start a punishing airlines and those producing mobile phones, tablets and those operating data centres which is doing much more damage to the environment than regular people are.

Ordinary people want those things too.

There are lots of people (particularly those under 20) who would swap their rural house for an urban apartment to keep their mobile phones and tablets.

facehugger99

eagle eye wrote: »

When we hear them talk about grounding all planes and stopping the production of mobile phones, tablets and shutting data centres then we will take them seriously.
The ordinary man isn't living a bountiful life in this country. We can't afford to go green and punishing us with more taxes is only going to slow things down. Shut down or heavily tax airlines and tech producers and it'll improve things for everybody.

Sounds very much like a 'tax someone else' argument.

The country is full of people who passionately believe that something should be done, right up to the point that it may negatively impact on themselves.

eagle eye

Yes but our government just gave Exxon the go ahead to drill off the coast of Kerry. This all happened quietly while people were giving out about a potentially fraudulent claim in a pub or hotel involving a politician.

eagle eye

facehugger99 wrote:

The country is full of people who passionately believe that something should be done, right up to the point that it may negatively impact on themselves.
Sounds very much like a 'tax someone else' argument.

If you tax the big companies first then people realise it's very serious and will get their act together very quickly.
If you tax the ordinary man then he will give out that you are not taxing the big companies and demand that the tax be removed.

is_that_so

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes but our government just gave Exxon the go ahead to drill off the coast of Kerry. This all happened quietly while people were giving out about a potentially fraudulent claim in a pub or hotel involving a politician.

They've been there before and abandoned it then. It's just exploratory and there are other uses to oil. The natural gas we could put to use if any is found.

tayto lover

Chips Lovell wrote: »

The Greens didn't get wiped out in 2011 because of their environmental policies and taxes.

They and their coalition partners were voted out because they'd been in charge during the financial crisis and banking collapse. Proportionally, Fianna Fail almost lost as many votes as the Greens.

And voters do tend to forgive and forget. Both parties have since bounced back.

5% for the Greens is not much of a bounce.
Let’s see how they do in the next GE.

cutelad

blanch152 wrote: »

The thing is, I am giving the Greens credit for carbon tax and affiliated environmental charges because those are measures that this country absolutely needs.

There are many like me.

I blame the greens for carbon tax etc and not give us an alternative. Yes get your house retrofit. Where are we going to find 80 grand, 40 grand for a car that won't bring us beyond the next town. Oh wait we all get electric cars and electricity prices rise rise rise.
It's time we put a stop to this nonsense. Has to be a carrot not a stick

Macha

cutelad wrote: »

Who's going to card if we burn rubbish. Been honest I'm done with recycling.
Bonfire night shortly

It's your own air you're polluting.

Burning rubbish creates all sorts of nasty toxic chemicals and particulate matter that goes into your lungs and blood stream, and is linked to things like lung cancer, asthma, and heart disease.

It's completely stupid.

tayto lover

cutelad wrote: »

Be s good day for country if they disappear

It’s the stupid way they want things brought in.
I agree with saving the planet but people can only afford to take short gradual steps and not the ram stam way they want things done.
Same with FG. Changes should be slow and meaningful and people should be encouraged and assisted. Reminds me of Phil Hogan and his “reduced to a trickle” rubbish with the water. Coming out with this raft of changes won’t do them any good in the long run but will rub people up the wrong way.

Macha

We've run out of time for slow, gradual change. UN climate scientists say we have 10 years left to prevent the worst of climate breakdown but it's already inevitable that our children will live on an irreversibly altered planet.

If you're not panicking about the climate crisis, you're not paying attention.

tayto lover

Macha wrote: »

We've run out of time for slow, gradual change. UN climate scientists say we have 10 years left to prevent the worst of climate breakdown but it's already inevitable that our children will live on an irreversibly altered planet.

If you're not panicking about the climate crisis, you're not paying attention.

So where do you suggest we source the money for all the changes we’re asked to make?

Macha

tayto lover wrote: »

So where do you suggest we source the money for all the changes we’re asked to make?

You know what? That is EXACTLY the issue we should be debating rather wondering if we should do something or not.

First, I think many people are not aware of the huge amount of subsidies that still go to fossil fuels. All of that should stop and be redirected into zero carbon investments.

There a huge amount of private capital looking for places to invest. Provide a clear plan and they will come. May one example: the IIGCC represents investors with €23 trillion in assets that are asking governments to commit clearly to climate action so they can invest. Check out www.iigcc.org.

Think about it: insurance companies and even moreso reinsurance companies could be seriously screwed if it turns out they're exposed to climate risks. Things like properties in flood zones, shares in coal companies that are going bust etc. But their hands are actually tied about what they can invest in due to strict regulation. Put in place a clear plan and the investors will come.

And in such a high up front investment scenario, reducing regulatory risk is vital to keeping costs down.

Macha

cutelad wrote: »

And how long to charge? I'm not waiting 3 hours to charge. A joke

I know that for obvious reasons humans have evolved to perceive immediate risk but Jesus are we bad at risk perception when it isn't right in our faces.

You think having to charge an EV battery is an inconvenience? You have no idea what's coming.

And you know, I know most people only care about themselves but a city in India with a population of 11 million ****ing people just ran out of water in a situation aggravated by climate change: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-india-48672330

But yeah, screw those guys.

Macha

cutelad wrote: »

Ah here will you cop on. Me waiting 3 hours won't bring back water to them.
What about other countries?

I don't think you understand the situation we're in. We're so ****ed, we all need to start bailing water as fast as we can, not stand there and argue about who should use such size bucket.

I ****ing despair. I really do.

ancapailldorcha

Off topic and low quality posts deleted. No more one-liners please.

eagle eye

Macha wrote:

We've run out of time for slow, gradual change. UN climate scientists say we have 10 years left to prevent the worst of climate breakdown but it's already inevitable that our children will live on an irreversibly altered planet.

I still see planes in the sky, stop that and people might start to realise that it's important.

GreeBo

cutelad wrote: »

I blame the greens for carbon tax etc and not give us an alternative. Yes get your house retrofit. Where are we going to find 80 grand, 40 grand for a car that won't bring us beyond the next town. Oh wait we all get electric cars and electricity prices rise rise rise.
It's time we put a stop to this nonsense. Has to be a carrot not a stick

Your nearest town is 400KM away?

eagle eye wrote: »

I still see planes in the sky, stop that and people might start to realise that it's important.

You don't need to stop planes flying, you just need to charge appropriately and people will stop flying if its not worth it. Put the money raised towards renewable resources.
Extend this to Diesel, Petrol and people burning/using all other polluting fuels.
Again use that money to subsidise people updating their houses and cars.
Remove the subsidies on pollutants and move them to renewable resources.

cutelad

GreeBo wrote: »

Your nearest town is 400KM away?



You don't need to stop planes flying, you just need to charge appropriately and people will stop flying if its not worth it. Put the money raised towards renewable resources.
Extend this to Diesel, Petrol and people burning/using all other polluting fuels.
Again use that money to subsidise people updating their houses and cars.
Remove the subsidies on pollutants and move them to renewable resources.

So are you suggesting going back to the dark days of 500 euro to get to London?

GreeBo

cutelad wrote: »

So are you suggesting going back to the dark days of 500 euro to get to London?

What makes those days "dark"?

If you *need* to get to London in 2 hours then yeah, you pay for it.
Otherwise you get a Ferry and a Train.


Speaking of suggestions, whats *your* alternative exactly?
So far all you have done is complain.
Until they make planes that are powered by moaning we are where we are.

Macha

cutelad wrote: »

So are you suggesting going back to the dark days of 500 euro to get to London?

You can already get to London by sail and rail for €55.

The best option is to run trains into ferries that continue straight to b London. That way you can get on at Heusten or Connolly and arrive in London a few hours later. And you can take as much luggage and liquids with you as you like.

But if you choose to fly and spew huge amounts of planet-destroying CO2 plus nitrous oxide, sulpher dioxide, mercury, particulate matter and more into the air, then yes you should be paying through the nose for the privilege of polluting your fellow humans (and the rest of the biosphere).

LeinsterDub

cutelad wrote: »

So are you suggesting going back to the dark days of 500 euro to get to London?

One suggestion is to tax companies an increase amount based on the trip number. First trip 1%, second 2% etc. I know plenty of companies using trips around the world as unofficial perks and jollys when it could easily be done by Skype

cutelad

I think the pricing policy of airlines is good. For those of us that struggle to pay the bills everyday as is and try get a holiday once a year your suggestion would cause hardship.
My suggestion is make recycling electric cars cheaper and people will embrace.
Sure once people buy electric cars electricity prices will sky rocket.

cutelad

Macha wrote: »

You can already get to London by sail and rail for €55.

The best option is to run trains into ferries that continue straight to b London. That way you can get on at Heusten or Connolly and arrive in London a few hours later. And you can take as much luggage and liquids with you as you like.

But if you choose to fly and spew huge amounts of planet-destroying CO2 plus nitrous oxide, sulpher dioxide, mercury, particulate matter and more into the air, then yes you should be paying through the nose for the privilege of polluting your fellow humans (and the rest of the biosphere).

Your comment is a typical Dublin green comment. We all don't live in Dublin. So you suggest train leaves Tralee to rosslare and on? Take a day to get to London.
How about starting by banning government staff in Dublin been provided with car parks

cutelad

LeinsterDub wrote: »

One suggestion is to tax companies an increase amount based on the trip number. First trip 1%, second 2% etc. I know plenty of companies using trips around the world as unofficial perks and jollys when it could easily be done by Skype

I travel 150000 km a year and take 20 flight all work related as I work with equipment. Once a year we fly for a team meeting and yes a jolly dinner one evening. Most companies are not on the jolly

Macha

cutelad wrote: »

Your comment is a typical Dublin green comment. We all don't live in Dublin. So you suggest train leaves Tralee to rosslare and on? Take a day to get to London.
How about starting by banning government staff in Dublin been provided with car parks

You can't expect to live outside Dublin and have access to the same amenities. That goes for transport as much as anything else.

If you live in Tralee it takes your a day to get to London anyway between getting to an airport, waiting 2 hours for security, going through security and then getting the train to London City centre.

What's your solution?

Shefwedfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

One suggestion is to tax companies an increase amount based on the trip number. First trip 1%, second 2% etc. I know plenty of companies using trips around the world as unofficial perks and jollys when it could easily be done by Skype

Companies love spending millions flying people around the World for a "jolly":P

I keep mentioning it but the amount of "pub talk" comments on here is unbelieveable. Do people actually believe this stuff? we have wipers which can't be used because people are running out of fuel....the convertion of combustion to electric compared to the horse & cart.

Now we have companies, who fire people at the drop of a hat to savea few quid, sending people around the World just so they can go on the beer :p

I work in a big company, we are international and yes we have to fly. It could take me 2 months to get approval and it goes around every department before approved. We are given every online tool so we don't have to fly. It was in the early 2000's since I seen any sort of jolly in our industry. Unless you count going for a few beers in Basingstock as a jolly :-)

GreeBo

cutelad wrote: »

Your comment is a typical Dublin green comment. We all don't live in Dublin. So you suggest train leaves Tralee to rosslare and on? Take a day to get to London.

So it takes a day...and? If you need to be there faster...pay for it, just like any other package.
You dont need to get a ferry from Dublin.
But can I suggest that if you frequently need to get to London, living in Tralee won't be the smartest choice you ever made in the future...especially if you can't or won't pay to fly.

cutelad wrote: »

I think the pricing policy of airlines is good. For those of us that struggle to pay the bills everyday as is and try get a holiday once a year your suggestion would cause hardship.
My suggestion is make recycling electric cars cheaper and people will embrace.
Sure once people buy electric cars electricity prices will sky rocket.

Its not the airlines that will set policy, its tax on fuel and air travel.
That said, your prices are going to increase anyway, unless you have your own supply of jetfuel?


Still waiting on alternatives btw....

GreeBo

cutelad wrote: »

I travel 150000 km a year and take 20 flight all work related as I work with equipment. Once a year we fly for a team meeting and yes a jolly dinner one evening. Most companies are not on the jolly

Then you need to live near an international hub and not in Tralee.

Shefwedfan

cutelad wrote: »

I think the pricing policy of airlines is good. For those of us that struggle to pay the bills everyday as is and try get a holiday once a year your suggestion would cause hardship.
My suggestion is make recycling electric cars cheaper and people will embrace.
Sure once people buy electric cars electricity prices will sky rocket.

How is recycling electric car expensive? the shell of the car is the exact same as any other car. In fact they are now moving towards steel in the new VW which will make it even easier to recycle.



The battery is gone within minutes of a car crash, reused as Solar PV is the most popular use but loads of others......



The fact is the cost of electric cars is expensive because of the lack of market penetration. VW are bringing in the new MEB model so they can mass produce, mass production will bring down the cost of raw material.


At the moment because electric cars are rare the cost to produce is higher....the more you buy the cheaper it is....

Mancomb Seepgood

I've never understood why aviation fuel alone should be exempt from tax - it's a subsidy to the airlines and the most frequent fliers.Don't get me wrong,I love to travel,but we all need to accept we can't go on living the way we've been living up to now.

Macha

Another point on regional Irish airports. We subsidise the hell out of them. €42.5 million of taxpayers money to four regional airports: https://www.transportenvironment.org/news/%E2%82%AC425m-irish-airport-state-aid-%E2%80%98waste-scarce-public-money%E2%80%99

Take that money and invest it in high speed rail/sail.

cutelad

GreeBo wrote: »

So it takes a day...and? If you need to be there faster...pay for it, just like any other package.
You dont need to get a ferry from Dublin.
But can I suggest that if you frequently need to get to London, living in Tralee won't be the smartest choice you ever made in the future...especially if you can't or won't pay to fly.



Its not the airlines that will set policy, its tax on fuel and air travel.
That said, your prices are going to increase anyway, unless you have your own supply of jetfuel?


Still waiting on alternatives btw....

We have airports outside Dublin btw. I leave Kerry or Cork and can be in facility by 11 am.
You guys want us all live in cities. How about getting big companies relocate to the west with big tax breaks. Take all traffic out of major urban areas.
Read my replies some solutions given, only difference is taxing the poor is not my solution like the Dublin Green hippies

Macha

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

I've never understood why aviation fuel alone should be exempt from tax - it's a subsidy to the airlines and the most frequent fliers.Don't get me wrong,I love to travel,but we all need to accept we can't go on living the way we've been living up to now.

Yup. You don't even pay VAT on your airline ticket but you do on train tickets, bus tickets etc.

That's the power of the airline lobby. Utter madness.

cutelad

Macha wrote: »

Another point on regional Irish airports. We subsidise the hell out of them. €42.5 million of taxpayers money to four regional airports: https://www.transportenvironment.org/news/%E2%82%AC425m-irish-airport-state-aid-%E2%80%98waste-scarce-public-money%E2%80%99

Take that money and invest it in high speed rail/sail.

Regional airports are vital to local economies. Tourism and connectivity