Rats burrowing into compost bin

Brussels Sprout

A month ago I got a compost bin for my organic waste which I have sitting on a raised bed. In retrospect the surrounding area was not very level. Last week I noticed that there were some burrow-holes leading into the bin from both sides. Then during the week I actually saw a rat from my kitchen window.

Today I went to the garden centre and got a bag of top soil which I used to fill in the holes and pack down the surrounding area on all sides of the bin. Literally an hour later I spotted not 1 but 2 rats back at the bin. They immediately began trying to burrow down through the new soil and without too much difficulty one of them managed to gain access via the gate mechanism at the front which they inadvertently managed to knock out of place.

I went out and replaced that back in position but 20 minutes later they were back again and started burrowing from both sides. I have no doubt that they well have a new entrance hole into it soon enough.

What are my options here? I would prefer not to poison them.

As for attracting them in the first place. I haven't put any cooked food, meat or fish in there. I did however put some broken up egg-shells in there so I'll stop that now. I saw one of them emerge with a piece of carrot so it looks like they're happy to eat the organic waste.


Suspect A: https://imgur.com/ZUneFQQ
with suspect B: https://imgur.com/tnkaM6B

smacl

We got a couple of cats which solved the rat problem nicely.

New Home

Lots of heavy rocks or bricks around the base (making sure there are no gaps through which they could burrow) would help, as, I suppose, would a skirt of metal mesh that would go flat around the base and then up the sides of the bin (a bit like those fox-proof chicken enclosures), secured in place by something heavy (again, rocks or bricks). They may dig further away, but play it by ear. On the plus side, at least they're aerating your compost...

gozunda

Rats will burrow, chew and generally get through just about anything except decent concrete and metal. They also bring with them the danger of wiles disease - a danger in a garden especially if there are small children playing. I've seen rats chew the side of a wooden stable and the bottom of a heavy duty agricultural feed bin. If you dont wish to use bait - then use a live trap as it sounds like you have a breeding colony within reach. The eggshells are irrelevant and as you said they are eating the vegetable matter - they will quite happily come back for more of that. Here have a couple of farm cats that do the work of keeping rat numbers to a minimum. Good job they do to.

Flipperdipper

smacl wrote: »

We got a couple of cats which solved the rat problem nicely.

Yea, but cats are vermin as well so what do you use to get rid of them?

Fann Linn

Flipperdipper wrote: »

Yea, but cats are vermin as well so what do you use to get rid of them?

Rabid Rottweilerz.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

The most reliable solution is traps or poison. They say burying kitchen waste among the grass etc in the bin, helps deter them, as does keeping the pile sufficiently wet.

Brussels Sprout

I found some large rocks and have placed them around the outside edges of the bin. I'll keep monitoring it for the time being to see if they manage to find a way in.

New Home

Unless they are flush, and all the nooks and crannies are coverd (and not by soil or gravel), they will.

Doctors room ghost

Luna rat traps and bait them with crunchy peanut butter. They are a timber trap with a picture of cats on.very good traps

Day Lewin

Seasoned composter here

Best lines of approach:

A. Fix a sheet of chickenwire across the underside of your compost bin, wire into position so it can't be moved. Rats are good at digging so earth will never be enough, and they can get around stones etc.

B. Make sure that your composter doesn't contain food attractive to rats, eg, bread, cheese rinds or plate scrapings. Although these things can be composted, for now, don't put any of them in. No cooked food!

C. Rats don't like change or disturbance, so, stir up the compost every day with a garden fork or something of the kind: hassle them daily. No rat mother will build her nest in a place that is constantly poked.

D. Get a cat. Dog or fox will also catch rats.

pablo128

Get a board of wood, screw some rat traps to it, put peanut butter on the traps and sit back.

Hoboo

Remove the food source, or use chicken wire. Attracting rats and then killing them is a bit, how one might say, a ****ty thing to do.

Lumen

Weldmesh is much better than chickenwire, but it needs to be narrow gauge.

E.g. https://www.ie.screwfix.com/apollo-13mm-galvanised-welded-mesh-0-9-x-6m-41b2f6.html

pablo128

Hoboo wrote: »

Remove the food source, or use chicken wire. Attracting rats and then killing them is a bit, how one might say, a ****ty thing to do.

Take the food source away and they will be in the house next eating everything and sh1tting everywhere. They are vermin. They are not endangered or rare or anything. Just set a few traps and they are no longer a problem.

Lumen

pablo128 wrote: »

Take the food source away and they will be in the house next eating everything and sh1tting everywhere. They are vermin. They are not endangered or rare or anything. Just set a few traps and they are no longer a problem.

But you have to keep setting traps, because the supply of rats is infinite.

gman2k

Cats don't necessarily go for rats, as they put up too big of a fight. I have two who will murder anything up to rabbit size but don't fcuk with rats.
I don't put cooked food in my composter but the rats still attack it. My options are
1. Get a "pig digestion composter" - They are very expensive.
2. Build one with railway sleepers or even planks.
3. Build one with conc. blocks.
4. Essential to have the floor sealed with welded mesh, chicken wire is way too light to bother with.
Plastic composters are essentially a waste of time and money.

peasant

Lumen wrote: »

But you have to keep setting traps, because the supply of rats is infinite.

This one is pretty much set & forget (if a bit pricey)
https://www.automatictraps.ie/

plus it doesn't maim or poison, just kills quickly

Lumen

peasant wrote: »

This one is pretty much set & forget (if a bit pricey)
https://www.automatictraps.ie/

plus it doesn't maim or poison, just kills quickly

Interesting. I have an electric trap and it's caught nothing (and in any case would require emptying), but that one looks more developed.

smacl

gman2k wrote: »

Cats don't necessarily go for rats, as they put up too big of a fight.

Ours most certainly kill rats including some quite big ones, not to mention the occasion magpie, and plenty of mice, pigeons and smaller songbirds, all of which end up back in the composter. Emptying the composter a couple of years ago my daughter grabbed a couple of skulls from said vermin to put on sticks in her cactus pots to give that authentic desert gulch look

I'd avoid poison at all costs. The neighbouring shop laid some and I had a dying rat somehow manage to get under my floorboards. Even after taking out a kitchen unit and lifting most of the boards we never found the carcass and the stench was horrendous for over a month. The ensuing plague of bluebottles wasn't so great either.

Not a big fan of house pets but have had some affection of cats since.

peasant

Lumen wrote: »

Interesting. I have an electric trap and it's caught nothing (and in any case would require emptying), but that one looks more developed.

With rats that have zoomed in on a particular food source you might have to change the bait. We were feeding birds (and by extension rats) all winter. They scorned the goodnature bait. As soon as we replaced it with birdseed we got results.

Lumen

peasant wrote: »

With rats that have zoomed in on a particular food source you might have to change the bait. We were feeding birds (and by extension rats) all winter. They scorned the goodnature bait. As soon as we replaced it with birdseed we got results.

Yeah, the problem with the zapper box I have is that the bait repository is a tiny vertical pocket which requires sticky bait, and that limits my options.

Hoboo

pablo128 wrote: »

Take the food source away and they will be in the house next eating everything and sh1tting everywhere. They are vermin. They are not endangered or rare or anything. Just set a few traps and they are no longer a problem.

Complete horse****. Rats look for filth, bins, compost heaps, dead animals, and somethwhere they'll be left alone and undisturbed. They don't try to get into houses unless it's a kip.

Get rid of the compost, they'll head off, not try to get into a presumably clean and inhabited house.

Or do the humane and easiest thing and bury some chicken wire. Just because they're not endangered doesnt mean its ok to attract them and then kill them. That's ridiculous.

peasant

Hoboo wrote: »

They don't try to get into houses unless it's a kip.

Get rid of the compost, they'll head off, not try to get into a presumably clean and inhabited house.

Not so.
We have a reasonably clean house, no open food sources (other than birdfeeders during winter), a population of dogs and cats and still we've had rats overwintering in our attic for years.
(despite no obvious way in that I can find or haven't blocked)

The price of country living :rolleyes:

iamtony

I didn't want to kill mice in my shed so gutted it and they fled. A few months later I had them under the floorboards in the house and in the attic. Kill them now while you have the chance. Peanut butter really does work wonders I caught 10 in 2 days with one trap and peanut butter.
The trap has sat their with peanut butter on it undisturbed ever since so it got the whole family. They couldn't help themselves.

iora_rua

peasant wrote: »

With rats that have zoomed in on a particular food source you might have to change the bait. We were feeding birds (and by extension rats) all winter. They scorned the goodnature bait. As soon as we replaced it with birdseed we got results.

Rats love sunflower seeds, as I discovered a few years back - and like to make a nest with the seed hulls! Ingenious little feckers.

iamtony

peasant wrote: »

Not so.
We have a reasonably clean house, no open food sources (other than birdfeeders during winter), a population of dogs and cats and still we've had rats overwintering in our attic for years.
(despite no obvious way in that I can find or haven't blocked)

The price of country living :rolleyes:

I was once taking a leak and I seen a mouse on the window ledge of the upstairs bathroom. The windows w was frosted and he was scooting sideways across it like something out of a cartoon. We have pebbledash on the house I think they can climb it and get in the eves of the attic very easily.

4Ad

I had one, and I was very careful with what I put into it..a digger driver knocked it over one day, about 4 or 5 rats ran out of it...never got another one..
Trap them is the most humane way..

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

You can't generalise like that.
I'm 48 years in this house, deeply rural, and have never had a rat in the house or a mouse. A few wood mice in the garage over the years but that's the lot.
Composting all that time too and never a rat in the compost bins.

peasant wrote: »

Not so.
We have a reasonably clean house, no open food sources (other than birdfeeders during winter), a population of dogs and cats and still we've had rats overwintering in our attic for years.
(despite no obvious way in that I can find or haven't blocked)

The price of country living :rolleyes:

bobbyss

Can I just clarify something. If I have a pile of grass clippings, leaves, small branches, thorny shrubs etc at the back of the garden and I turn it over with a fork regularly maybe mix in some soil to make compost, is this going to attract rats? Just all garden stuff and no food whatsoever?

Bass Reeves

While rats will live outside for the summer they will seek shelter for the winter.Because last winter was mild there are larger numbers than normal around. Rats are a health hazard and should be treated as such.
While some cats, and dogs will control them they are not always effective. They will attempts to live near a food source so along with feeding there they will nest and breed there. In reality you are generally never more than 10 feet from a rat.
Poison is the most effective way if you are willing to use it. Use blocks as opposed to grain bait in a 3'' hollow tube. Attach the blocks to wire all blocks have holes to tie wire through. It is most effective if put down before rats move on. A rat when dying will return to where it came from to die. If rats die inside a house they were there before being poisoned.
OP since you do not want to use poison traps are the only other choice. Even if you secure the compost bin rats will search for other food sources around your house, shed and garden. Rats usually enter houses or sheds through small openings so make sure there is none of them around.

zoe 3619

bobbyss wrote: »

Can I just clarify something. If I have a pile of grass clippings, leaves, small branches, thorny shrubs etc at the back of the garden and I turn it over with a fork regularly maybe mix in some soil to make compost, is this going to attract rats? Just all garden stuff and no food whatsoever?

No,no reason why rats would be intetested in that.

Lumen

zoe 3619 wrote: »

No,no reason why rats would be intetested in that.

Shelter.

New Home

Unless they're looking to build a nest. But if it's disturbed regularly, they won't like it and find somewhere quieter.

EDIT: Beaten to it.

s7ryf3925pivug

Use a tumbler compost bin for vegetable waste, out of reach of animals. Don’t compost animal food because it will attract flies.

Plugguy

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

A month ago I got a compost bin for my organic waste which I have sitting on a raised bed. In retrospect the surrounding area was not very level. Last week I noticed that there were some burrow-holes leading into the bin from both sides. Then during the week I actually saw a rat from my kitchen window.

Today I went to the garden centre and got a bag of top soil which I used to fill in the holes and pack down the surrounding area on all sides of the bin. Literally an hour later I spotted not 1 but 2 rats back at the bin. They immediately began trying to burrow down through the new soil and without too much difficulty one of them managed to gain access via the gate mechanism at the front which they inadvertently managed to knock out of place.

I went out and replaced that back in position but 20 minutes later they were back again and started burrowing from both sides. I have no doubt that they well have a new entrance hole into it soon enough.

What are my options here? I would prefer not to poison them.

As for attracting them in the first place. I haven't put any cooked food, meat or fish in there. I did however put some broken up egg-shells in there so I'll stop that now. I saw one of them emerge with a piece of carrot so it looks like they're happy to eat the organic waste.


Suspect A: https://imgur.com/ZUneFQQ
with suspect B: https://imgur.com/tnkaM6B

They are juvenile rats in your photos. I think your best bet is to set traps for them, expect to catch more than 2 or 3. I think traps are better than poison because you can get rid of the rat after it is caught, with poison you have no control over where the dead rat will end up....If you do decide to trap or poison them please be careful that birds are not also caught or poisoned.

KOR101

I have exactly the same problem. It must be the norm surely. My concern is that they may eventually make their way to the house.

smacl

Flipperdipper wrote: »

Yea, but cats are vermin as well so what do you use to get rid of them?

On this, yes if not neutered and allowed to breed wild. If neutered and looked after, they're not comparable. Reasons being they don't carry diseases, they don't breed to meet the available food supply and they can be trained to crap in specific places of your own choosing. They do have a running cost in terms of money and time, so if you find a trap that does the job as reliably you could be better off.

Doctors room ghost

Lumen wrote: »

But you have to keep setting traps, because the supply of rats is infinite.

What harm.make it into a hobby.make it interesting with most killed rats competition.

Don’t be getting soft for old ratty.they are bad bastards. If they had the chance they would gladly kill you.
Only difference is they would eat you aswell

Stop moaning ffs

Small tangent but I have two bird feeders at the end of the garden we have a raised deck /seating down there and recently saw a mouse scurrying around eating seeds that had fallen. Almost definitely nesting under the deck. And it was definitely a mouse.
Is it true that if you have mice you don’t have rats? They don’t generally coexist I’m told?

Doctors room ghost

iamtony wrote: »

I didn't want to kill mice in my shed so gutted it and they fled. A few months later I had them under the floorboards in the house and in the attic. Kill them now while you have the chance. Peanut butter really does work wonders I caught 10 in 2 days with one trap and peanut butter.
The trap has sat their with peanut butter on it undisturbed ever since so it got the whole family. They couldn't help themselves.

The crunchy peanut butter in aldi with the red lid is like rat heroin.
They go mad for it

Doctors room ghost

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Small tangent but I have two bird feeders at the end of the garden we have a raised deck /seating down there and recently saw a mouse scurrying around eating seeds that had fallen. Almost definitely nesting under the deck. And it was definitely a mouse.
Is it true that if you have mice you don’t have rats? They don’t generally coexist I’m told?

I heard that before too but I reckon it’s a paddywhacker tale that was born on a bar stool.

evolving_doors

KOR101 wrote: »

I have exactly the same problem. It must be the norm surely. My concern is that they may eventually make their way to the house.

When it's winter they will unless your house is impervious.

Just get rid of it op, or else get one of those pig composters.or else get one of those brown compost wheelie bins from the council, then every so often dig a hole and fill it and cover it back.

s7ryf3925pivug

Pig composters are great but expensive. Any raised tumbler should keep rats out.

I have this and no animals get at its content.

https://www.everydayweldingsupplies.com/draper-210l-compost-tumbler

I am planning to get a pig as well as this is full since I put a lot of shredded wood in it last week and I've still garden waste to get rid of. Pig composters are insulated so the content breaks down a lot faster.

We do have field mice in the garden but only seen them the other side of the garden where the birds are fed and the dog eats.

Nikki Sixx

Think of the wonders you are doing for the planet. Rats are God’s creatures too, you are just giving them a few nibbles.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh84o5STysk

If you want an animal solution, go with the Rolls Royce version.

Thanks Reverend

New Home

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Small tangent but I have two bird feeders at the end of the garden we have a raised deck /seating down there and recently saw a mouse scurrying around eating seeds that had fallen. Almost definitely nesting under the deck. And it was definitely a mouse.
Is it true that if you have mice you don’t have rats? They don’t generally coexist I’m told?

No, it's not true. They may not share nests, but it's definitely not true.

Slasher

smacl wrote: »

I'd avoid poison at all costs. The neighbouring shop laid some and I had a dying rat somehow manage to get under my floorboards. Even after taking out a kitchen unit and lifting most of the boards we never found the carcass and the stench was horrendous for over a month.

From experience, i fully agree. Avoid poison. You never really forget that smell!

s7ryf3925pivug

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

Think of the wonders you are doing for the planet. Rats are God’s creatures too, you are just giving them a few nibbles.

I guess that would make the diseases they transmit gods creatures too.

Obviously rats are obviously a health risk obviously.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/environ/pest-control.html

s7ryf3925pivug

On a tangent, how do you keep birdseed off the ground outside of not providing it?

The birds always spill it all over the place here. Can sweep it up but wondering if there's a way to prevent it in the first place?

I suppose a raised platform under the feeder should work. This would require moving away from the window-mounted one we use.

bkrangle

Fatima Plain Goalkeeper wrote: »

On a tangent, how do you keep birdseed off the ground outside of not providing it?

The birds always spill it all over the place here. Can sweep it up but wondering if there's a way to prevent it in the first place?

I suppose a raised platform under the feeder should work. This would require moving away from the window-mounted one we use.

I've got bird feeders with trays underneath which catches some, but not all, of the spillage

The type of seed can affect the amount of waste a lot too. I tend to go for sunflower hearts and less mess varieties than the standard mixed seed now.