Rats burrowing into compost bin

Graces7

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It's very hot weather and they have other accessible food sources. Just leave in position and try not to disturb too much. Rats are sensitive to changes in things.they usually do not go near anything strange for a while.

If you want a poison well more a way of killing rats without the danger of s poisoned rat being a danger to other animals mix flour with cement or plaster of Paris powder. However make sure it stays dry and pets have no accesse to it. Saw it on the net once

That is appallingly cruel . Takes many hours of agony. The powder mixes with bodily fluids then sets inside the animal.

Bass Reeves

Graces7 wrote: »

That is appallingly cruel . Takes many hours of agony. The powder mixes with bodily fluids then sets inside the animal.

This method was reccomended by wildlife sites to protect Bird Of Prey a few years ago

New Home

Maybe because it's effective, but that doesn't mean it's painless for the rats.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

New Home wrote: »

Maybe because it's effective, but that doesn't mean it's painless for the rats.

But neither are conventional rat poisons.

New Home

True. But neither is my cooking...

Graces7

New Home wrote: »

Maybe because it's effective, but that doesn't mean it's painless for the rats.

Thank you

It works by mixing with fluids inside the rat then setting there. Hours of agony that is needless.

Whatever we think of rats, inflicting needless pain ? There is no need for poison of any kind. Traps are a little more trouble but quick and humane.

Bass Reeves

Graces7 wrote: »

Thank you

It works by mixing with fluids inside the rat then setting there. Hours of agony that is needless.

Whatever we think of rats, inflicting needless pain ? There is no need for poison of any kind. Traps are a little more trouble but quick and humane.

Unfortunately not quite true. If you have trouble with large numbers of rats traps are often not the answer. They also carry huge risk to non target specieces of pets and wildlife. Rats are a serious health hazzard and if they are visible there are usually 10 for every one you see.

Graces7

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Unfortunately not quite true. If you have trouble with large numbers of rats traps are often not the answer. They also carry huge risk to non target specieces of pets and wildlife. Rats are a serious health hazzard and if they are visible there are usually 10 for every one you see.

I stand by what I have written. Knowingly causing severe pain to any living creature is inexcusable, and there are viable alternatives albeit they are more work that do not cause hours of utter agony. Yes they are all you say but this method ?

Inexcusable and needless.

Over and out from me on this as it is deeply, deeply upsetting to any animal lover.

Hocus Focus

smacl wrote: »

Yes, pretty much like a large brown carpet going across the lake by all accounts. I was too young to remember it first hand, but the father commented on it regularly. I have had rats swim up beside me on occasion in a lake in France and they are certainly good swimmers.

To the best of my knowledge, on an island without natural predators they'll breed to meet the available food source very quickly and then migrate en-masse as it becomes exhausted and they begin to starve. Rats can breed very quickly indeed, if you believe Wikipedia a single mating pair can result in a population of 15 thousand in a single year in optimal conditions. As such, the single best method of controlling them is eliminating the food source. Killing them via traps or poison isn't going to have much long term effect. Natural predators will also help keep things in check but aren't a solution if they pose a problem as well, e.g. feral cats, mink, etc..

I hope you vacated the water immediately. Swimming in rat-infested water puts you at great risk of Weil's Disease.

smacl

Hocus Focus wrote: »

I hope you vacated the water immediately. Swimming in rat-infested water puts you at great risk of Weil's Disease.

It was a large enough lake and I'd guess most freshwater lakes and rivers would have a certain rat population. While I agree there's a risk and appreciate the concern, it wouldn't stop me swimming in them. This article covers the subject well.

smacl

Graces7 wrote: »

I stand by what I have written. Knowingly causing severe pain to any living creature is inexcusable, and there are viable alternatives albeit they are more work that do not cause hours of utter agony. Yes they are all you say but this method ?

Inexcusable and needless.

Over and out from me on this as it is deeply, deeply upsetting to any animal lover.

Hmmm, my cats wouldn't exactly given any rodent they've caught a quick and humane death. Quite the opposite if anything.

Hocus Focus

smacl wrote: »

It was a large enough lake and I'd guess most freshwater lakes and rivers would have a certain rat population. While I agree there's a risk and appreciate the concern, it wouldn't stop me swimming in them. This article covers the subject well.

Enlightening!

Hocus Focus

Graces7 wrote: »

I stand by what I have written. Knowingly causing severe pain to any living creature is inexcusable, and there are viable alternatives albeit they are more work that do not cause hours of utter agony. Yes they are all you say but this method ?

Inexcusable and needless.

Over and out from me on this as it is deeply, deeply upsetting to any animal lover.

I have had an incident where 20 cases of apples stored in my garage were destroyed by a rat, and last winter it/they got into my attic and chewed their way through some reasonably expensive luggage. No, extermination by whatever means possible is my preferred option. It's bad enough people anthropomorphising cuddly animals. Becoming sentimental about rats is just a step too far.

smacl

Hocus Focus wrote: »

I have had an incident where 20 cases of apples stored in my garage were destroyed by a rat, and last winter it/they got into my attic and chewed their way through some reasonably expensive luggage. No, extermination by whatever means possible is my preferred option. It's bad enough people anthropomorphising cuddly animals. Becoming sentimental about rats is just a step too far.

My concern with poison would primarily be with a rat crawling under the floorboards or some other inaccessible area, dying and stinking the place out for months. Happened to me before due to a neighbouring shop laying poison and I've an antipathy towards it since. Cats and/or traps for me all the way.

Lumen

Hocus Focus wrote: »

It's bad enough people anthropomorphising cuddly animals. Becoming sentimental about rats is just a step too far.

It is not necessary to believe that rats are like humans in order to prefer to avoid inflicting pain and suffering on them.

Most people wouldn't poison a dog or a cat, how is that different in terms of pain inflicted compared to a rat? Do rats have some immunity to pain?

lordgoat

Hocus Focus wrote: »

I have had an incident where 20 cases of apples stored in my garage were destroyed by a rat, and last winter it/they got into my attic and chewed their way through some reasonably expensive luggage. No, extermination by whatever means possible is my preferred option. It's bad enough people anthropomorphising cuddly animals. Becoming sentimental about rats is just a step too far.

Animals > humans. imo.

gozunda

Lumen wrote: »

It is not necessary to believe that rats are like humans in order to prefer to avoid inflicting pain and suffering on them.

Most people wouldn't poison a dog or a cat, how is that different in terms of pain inflicted compared to a rat? Do rats have some immunity to pain?

Not only animals. Reseach has shown that Insects can feel chronic pain after injury

https://phys.org/news/2019-07-insects-chronic-pain-injury.html

So stepping on that bug or swatting that fly ...

chicorytip

Hocus Focus wrote:

I hope you vacated the water immediately. Swimming in rat-infested water puts you at great risk of Weil's Disease.

I wonder are participants in the annual Liffey Swim advised of this and what precautions they should take. I have heard that drinking a can of Coca-Cola post swim can somehow protect against infection - probably an urban myth.

Bass Reeves

Lumen wrote: »

It is not necessary to believe that rats are like humans in order to prefer to avoid inflicting pain and suffering on them.

Most people wouldn't poison a dog or a cat, how is that different in terms of pain inflicted compared to a rat? Do rats have some immunity to pain?

I will where ever possible avoid inflicting pain on an animal. However Rats are a serious health hazard. Traping takes time, as well when the weather changes during the autumn rats rats try to move indoors. If they get into sheds and garages there are serious health concerns. They are also a health hazard if they access stored foodstuffs. In some instances poison is the only viable option.

Graces7

Lumen wrote: »

It is not necessary to believe that rats are like humans in order to prefer to avoid inflicting pain and suffering on them.

Most people wouldn't poison a dog or a cat, how is that different in terms of pain inflicted compared to a rat? Do rats have some immunity to pain?

Thank you. and no they don;t have any immunity. They are warm blooded creatures with a highly developed nervous system.Who feel pain as much as we do .
If hygiene is observed and food etc properly stored ?and traps set all year round?

and garden and other rubbish properly stored and away from the house?

A trap is fast and humane,

One facet not mentioned is that poison apart from being ******* can also get into the food chain.

and rats have a valid function of cleaning up after us and after dead critters. they are part of the eco system.

FlipperThePriest

Graces7 wrote: »

One facet not mentioned is that poison apart from being ******* can also get into the food chain.

Baiting is the most effective way of dealing with rodents. The food safety authority (and eu legislation) outline bait boxing procedures with biocidal bait for a reason, they often don't allow snap trapping and they are a pretty high authority on the matter, so I'll trust them.

We've previously rented a house where there was a visible rat issue out the back of the house. I couldn't keep up with them using traps, so I did both; bait boxes and traps, covered the traps so as not to catch birds. They got through the poison something serious. It eventually petered out so I stopped using it. When there's children or food safety or any health risk concerned, I wouldn't be arsing about with traps if they are present in high numbers, eliminate asap, rats pose a serious health risk. I still have the bait box but I haven't used it since.

gman2k

Graces7 wrote:

A trap is fast and humane,

As I've posted previously, I've had to dispatch many a rat that was just caught by the leg in a rat trap. I keep chickens, so having rats around is part and parcel of that.

smacl

Lumen wrote: »

Most people wouldn't poison a dog or a cat, how is that different in terms of pain inflicted compared to a rat?

Numbers game primarily. If a single breeding pair of cats or dogs could leave you with a population in the thousands in a single year, I'd imagine people would have no qualms about controlling that population using any means necessary. I agree entirely with your point about needless pain, but when it comes to dealing with large quantities of vermin for me at least, it would be a secondary concern. I honestly think the most effective way of controlling rats is first to eliminate the food source and second make the environment inhospitable. Personally, I don't think systematic poisoning of any species as a mechanism for population control makes long term sense. Maybe some genius with a CRISPR toolkit can come up with something more humane and less needy than cats, though I daresay many people would also find that unethical. Until then, I'll let my cats have their fun.

Interesting when you travel to a country with rabies or other problems with wild dogs and man's best friend becomes enemy number one.

Graces7

My personal code remains never to inflict pain on any living creature regardless of the time and trouble . . Period.
And far less time and trouble here...

Since my cats arrived there has been no issue with rats here; or at my neighbours either. The simple presence of a cat will deter rats as I have seen time and time again. They run off up the lane waving a white flag! LOOKOUT! CAT!

That is how I have lived deep rural for many decades. and will for whatever few years gifted to me. " First do no harm. " I also co exist

with often crippling physical pain and would never inflict that on any critter.

There is no need. Rats have their place and their work. being careful with food storage and rubbish is paramount.

never any health issues either from them

ah well, my code and practice are firmly set and I am deeply at peace over that. More and more after reading posts here so thank you! You have reaffirmed my beliefs!Bless you!

Bass Reeves

Graces7 wrote: »

My personal code remains never to inflict pain on any living creature regardless of the time and trouble . . Period.
And far less time and trouble here...

Since my cats arrived there has been no issue with rats here; or at my neighbours either. The simple presence of a cat will deter rats as I have seen time and time again. They run off up the lane waving a white flag! LOOKOUT! CAT!

That is how I have lived deep rural for many decades. and will for whatever few years gifted to me. " First do no harm. " I also co exist

with often crippling physical pain and would never inflict that on any critter.

There is no need. Rats have their place and their work. being careful with food storage and rubbish is paramount.

never any health issues either from them

ah well, my code and practice are firmly set and I am deeply at peace over that. More and more after reading posts here so thank you! You have reaffirmed my beliefs!Bless you!

A friend of mine who is farming had his yard and house next to a 30 acre field of maize for 10 years. Maize is cut around the end of October or early November. Every year it was the same about 5-10 days after it was cut the rats tried to move in as the food source they were living on was gone and they had cleaned up what was left around the field. The first year he was caught unaware his cats and terriers were unable to control them and neither were his neighbour's. After the first year as the maize was being cut he and his neighbour's put out there bait points. It was the only way to solve the problem.

FlipperThePriest

Graces7 wrote: »

My personal code remains never to inflict pain on any living creature regardless of the time and trouble . . Period.
And far less time and trouble here...

ah well, my code and practice are firmly set and I am deeply at peace over that. More and more after reading posts here so thank you! You have reaffirmed my beliefs!Bless you!

This is all well and good in an ideal world and I appreciate your sentiments but the reality is, unless you are entirely self-sufficient, the food you buy is kept safe with both toxic and non-toxic bait whether you like it or not. So, I'm glad you don't work for the food safety authority.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

...he and his neighbour's put out there bait points. It was the only way to solve the problem.

Yep, safety comes first. There's a couple of local cats that seem to keep our area clear and have claimed my gardens. I'll even feed them the odd time... the mafia might call this safety tax.:pac: I'd rather they didn't pee all over my plants as I've seen them do, but once they keep the area clear I'm happy. If they drop the ball, I won't hesitate to pull out the bait boxes. If it's a toss up between my child's health in the garden and worrying about a rat in pain, it's an easy decision to make.

smacl

zippy84 wrote: »

Yep, safety comes first. There's a couple of local cats that seem to keep our area clear and have claimed my gardens. I'll even feed them the odd time... the mafia might call this safety tax.:pac: I'd rather they didn't pee all over my plants as I've seen them do, but once they keep the area clear I'm happy. If they drop the ball, I won't hesitate to pull out the bait boxes. If it's a toss up between my child's health in the garden and worrying about a rat in pain, it's an easy decision to make.

Agreed, though worth remembering that cat feces can also carry Toxoplasmosis. I've ended up sacrificing one of my planters as a cat crapping area which they all seem happy enough to use as it is where they went anyway. Not ideal but such is life. The dogs on the other hand break my heart.

Stop moaning ffs

Slightly OT but ive discovered something odd.
I planted some sunflowers all along the fence in the garden and they’re coming along great at over 6ft and haven’t bloomed yet.
But then a few days ago the leaves getting hit hard by slugs at them.
But I couldn’t find the culprits anywhere. And I looked everywhere.
Cut to just about Dawn this morning and I was having a smoke at the back door and I see a rat about half way up one of the sunflowers stalks pulling at a leaf with its mouth to get a slug.
I didn’t know they’d ate slugs. I didn’t know they could climb like that.
So sunflowers means slugs means rats.

Bugger this circle of life stuff
Poison has been put in the likely spaces.

Hocus Focus

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Slightly OT but ive discovered something odd.
I planted some sunflowers all along the fence in the garden and they’re coming along great at over 6ft and haven’t bloomed yet.
But then a few days ago the leaves getting hit hard by slugs at them.
But I couldn’t find the culprits anywhere. And I looked everywhere.
Cut to just about Dawn this morning and I was having a smoke at the back door and I see a rat about half way up one of the sunflowers stalks pulling at a leaf with its mouth to get a slug.
I didn’t know they’d ate slugs. I didn’t know they could climb like that.
So sunflowers means slugs means rats.

Bugger this circle of life stuff
Poison has been put in the likely spaces.

You'll have to put something down for the slugs as well.
As an afterthought, what about lacing a few slugs with rat poison?

Stop moaning ffs

Hocus Focus wrote: »

You'll have to put something down for the slugs as well.
As an afterthought, what about lacing a few slugs with rat poison?

I’ve a dog so slug pellets down around the flowers would be dangerous. Theyre highly toxic for dogs I believe. But the rat poison he won’t be able to get near at all.
Just have to be careful he doesn’t come across one dead. I’ve no idea if he’d try eat it or not.