Climate Action Plan

is_that_so

Boggles wrote: »

Well. What I am saying is.

Any governance when dictating future policy needs it to be based on reality.

Eirgrid have said that 75% of future new consumption will be gobbled up by Data Centres.

Now you don't have to be a distinguished power plant operator like Homer to see that may be a problem going forward.

So you might want to curb that a figure a little or in reality a lot, our crowd made it law that they are of strategic importance.

Surely you see a problem there?

That's where the governance is supposed to come in. I think there are bare bones and it will need to be filled in but I see no issue with the length of the timescale. The power consumption issue is only a major problem if you assume all dwellings will continue at the same level of insufficient insulation. There are also plans/proposals in there for more solar with an option to feed excess into the grid. And no, I don't see any problem that can't be resolved during that timeframe.

is_that_so

bfa1509 wrote: »

4)How much oil does it take to make, construct and maintain the windfarms that will allegedly run these electric cars? The blades are made up of composite material. What are composites made from - OIL. The amount of diesel lorries it takes to deliver the components and construct the windmills is probably doing more damage than the windmills are good for preventing. Also, it requires a lot of oil to maintain the bearings.

But if fossil fuels are banned in 2030, how on earth will we construct the wind farms to power the electric cars?

Not fossil fuels, ICE cars, but we are supposed to get to 100% renewables for energy.

Boggles

is_that_so wrote: »

There are also plans/proposals in there for more solar with an option to feed excess into the grid.

I just looked out the window it's nearly mid day in the middle of June and it's practically dark outside and about to píss rain.

How much excess are you expecting?

SirGerryAdams

Vegans talking about saving the planet while eating their avocado from south America. :pac:

Alf Veedersane

Boggles wrote: »

So they missed their revised target by 800-900%?

How much carbon would they save by not publishing these fictional documents?

It was revised to 20k in 2017.

A government can make targets but they're not the ones that dictate whether or not targets can be met.

joe40

Some people here seem to have reservations about the plan in terms of how effective it will be and how it will actually be delivered. There is a good debate to be had there.

But there are others who just want to maintain the status quo make no changes whatsoever and constantly find problems.

We as a society have become totally dependant on fossil fuels for heating, electricity production, transport etc. that is a simple fact.

Continued use of Fossil fuels in this way is not sustainable that is another simple fact. (Even apart from pollution fossil fuels are a finite resource)

So one way or another the status quo in relation to fossil fuel use cannot continue.

Major changes in how we use fossil fuels are simply unavoidable.

Thelonious Monk

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Vegans talking about saving the planet while eating their avocado from south America. :pac:

Where is this happening right now??

SirGerryAdams

joe40 wrote: »

Some people here seem to have reservations about the plan in terms of how effective it will be and how it will actually be delivered. There is a good debate to be had there.

But there are others who just want to maintain the status quo make no changes whatsoever and constantly find problems.

We as a society have become totally dependant on fossil fuels for heating, electricity production, transport etc. that is a simple fact.

Continued use of Fossil fuels in this way is not sustainable that is another simple fact. (Even apart from pollution fossil fuels are a finite resource)

So one way or another the status quo in relation to fossil fuel use cannot continue.

Major changes in how we use fossil fuels are simply unavoidable.

Or....we could restrict population growth and allow the other changes to happen organically, not be forced upon us at great cost.

Thelonious Monk

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Or....we could restrict population growth and allow the other changes to happen organically, not be forced upon us at great cost.

Restriction of population growth is not going to happen any time soon, you know that

Boggles

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It was revised to 20k in 2017.

A government can make targets but they're not the ones that dictate whether or not targets can be met.

What's the point in government targets so?

Of course government policy can shape and reach targets, these targets need to be based on reality though, not lunacy.

El_Bee

To all the people saying we need to have fewer kids (and I'm not fully opposed to that btw), how long would the words "Africa & Asia need to begin population control measures" be out of your mouth before your collar is felt for being a nazi?

Alf Veedersane

Boggles wrote: »

What's the point in government targets so?

Of course government policy can shape and reach targets, these targets need to be based on reality though, not lunacy.

Targets can be set and incentives put in place but they won't work in and of themselves.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Boggles

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Hindsight is 20/20.

Foresight isn't blind though and if you miss your targets by 1000s of % than stop making stupid fúcking targets.

Thelonious Monk

El_Bee wrote: »

To all the people saying we need to have fewer kids (and I'm not fully opposed to that btw), how long would the words "Africa & Asia need to begin population control measures" be out of your mouth before your collar is felt for being a nazi?

So from what I’m gathering here you seem to think no one should do anything?

jmayo

joe40 wrote: »

Some people here seem to have reservations about the plan in terms of how effective it will be and how it will actually be delivered. There is a good debate to be had there.

But there are others who just want to maintain the status quo make no changes whatsoever and constantly find problems.

We as a society have become totally dependant on fossil fuels for heating, electricity production, transport etc. that is a simple fact.

Continued use of Fossil fuels in this way is not sustainable that is another simple fact. (Even apart from pollution fossil fuels are a finite resource)

So one way or another the status quo in relation to fossil fuel use cannot continue.

Major changes in how we use fossil fuels are simply unavoidable.

Ok then really start investing in wind farms.

Also lets look seriously at all options including nuclear.
Although knowing how we cock up things in Ireland we would build the most expensive nuclear power plant based around the old Soviet RBMK reactor design. :rolleyes:

Push grants for improved home heating using non fossil fuels.

Investigate bio fuel generation as replacement for old sugar industry.

Lets make entire public transport bus fleet electric or renewal energy.

Lets improve electric grid, make more charge points available for rollout of electric powered cars.

But all of that costs lots of money.

All we ever see in these ideas is about taxing people, penalising them and like all things from this government there is very little mention of the real costs.

And again I say this, people need to start thinking where the enormous taxes gathered from fossil fuels are going to come from in the future.

marvin80

Kivaro wrote: »

Well, it's here.
And it's going to hit every one of us.

Some snippets from the measures announced today, of which there are 180 actions in the plan:

• ban the sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2030
• oil boilers will not be installed in new builds from 2022, and gas boilers from 2025
• one million electric cars by 2030
• 500,000 retrofitted homes
• move to 70% renewable electricity by 2030

All these measures are aimed at individuals.

Was there anything mentioned about businesses like for example supermarkets should be cutting down on the non-recyclable plastic they use for food.

Not a word about aviation - surely we should be reducing the amount of flights and not planning on another runway in Dublin if we're really serious about climate change.

Jimmy Garlic

joe40 wrote: »

Continued use of Fossil fuels in this way is not sustainable that is another simple fact. (Even apart from pollution fossil fuels are a finite resource)

Lithium is also a finite resource concentrated in a handful of countries such as Russia and China who will protect their own interests first and foremost.

ThunbergsAreGo

There is no point getting wound up about this

None of it will happen

joe40

jmayo wrote: »

Ok then really start investing in wind farms.

Also lets look seriously at all options including nuclear.
Although knowing how we cock up things in Ireland we would build the most expensive nuclear power plant based around the old Soviet RBMK reactor design. :rolleyes:

Push grants for improved home heating using non fossil fuels.

Investigate bio fuel generation as replacement for old sugar industry.

Lets make entire public transport bus fleet electric or renewal energy.

Lets improve electric grid, make more charge points available for rollout of electric powered cars.

But all of that costs lots of money.

All we ever see in these ideas is about taxing people, penalising them and like all things from this government there is very little mention of the real costs.

And again I say this, people need to start thinking where the enormous taxes gathered from fossil fuels are going to come from in the future.

Yeah I agree with most of that (Not sure about nuclear but may have a role to play)
In a previous post I also said that just relying on taxes to influence behaviour is not fair since it will disproportionately affect low to middle income families. Wealthy people will continue with multiple flights every year unabated. Maybe there should be a limit to carbon use for everyone.

But you're right there is no one single solution many things will be needed and some won't be effective.

I was just responding to the constant stream of negativity from some quarters.

Thelonious Monk

I just can’t understand why the government are doing any of this when the vast majority don’t want anything to change

namloc1980

naughtb4 wrote: »

There is no point getting wound up about this

None of it will happen

The taxes and levies part of it will happen alright and a couple of cheap and easy measures. The rest though......not gonna happen.

Boggles

naughtb4 wrote: »

There is no point getting wound up about this

None of it will happen

Well that is not strictly true, the vast majority of it is aspirational nonsense.

But the taxes which will start in October will be very much real.

ThunbergsAreGo

Boggles wrote: »

Well that is not strictly true, the vast majority of it is aspirational nonsense.

But the taxes which will start in October will be very much real.

That is unfortunately true

It is a shame that it is the only answers our esteemed politician can come up with - all roads lead to increased taxation

ednwireland

jmayo wrote: »

Ok then really start investing in wind farms.

60 lorry loads of concrete in each base of the ones built near me, thats a lot of c02 to recover right there

the funniest section for me is

Commence the transition to hybrid trains to allow extended electrification of rail services

start the electrification NOW ! by the time new trains are procured you wont need hybrid trains

Thelonious Monk

naughtb4 wrote: »

That is unfortunately true

It is a shame that it is the only answers our esteemed politician can come up with - all roads lead to increased taxation

So why are they trying to tax us more? To fund public services? I know many see this as a money grab from the working man but what is the governments goal here, why are they trying to get more tax from us?

Boggles

Data centres will consume up to 20pc of all electricity generated in the State within a decade, which will pose an enormous challenge for Ireland meeting its climate change targets.

The national grid operator says that data centres could account for 75pc of new demand by 2030, and that the grid will have to be bolstered - particularly in Dublin - to meet projected growth, which could require additional power generation.

marvin80 wrote: »

Was there anything mentioned about businesses

Well they changed the law to make the above Strategic Developments.

You couldn't make it up.

El_Bee

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So from what I’m gathering here you seem to think no one should do anything?

I think birthrates in western countries are shrinking, yet we seem to be getting mixed messages about that, it's a good thing for the environment which is fine, but then it's also used as an argument for mass immigration, which is perplexing.
As far as the developing world is concerned, particularly Africa, as long as foreign aid is being pumped into the continent they way is now with no real focus on development, populations will continue to balloon, causing far worse problems in regards to the carbon footprint created by those people and by the measures to import even more aid into the continent.

Thelonious Monk

El_Bee wrote: »

I think birthrates in western countries are shrinking, yet we seem to be getting mixed messages about that, it's a good thing for the environment which is fine, but then it's also used as an argument for mass immigration, which is perplexing.

Because people say we need perpetual growth because we need people to pay for pensions and look after old people. I don't see how this can continue forever though.

Jimmy Garlic

Boggles wrote: »

Well that is not strictly true, the vast majority of it is aspirational nonsense.

But the taxes which will start in October will be very much real.

And that's all it is about, the extraction of more money from individuals primarily. Increase taxation, do sweet F all except shovel the money int banks and their own pockets, feather the nests of their friends, relations and cronies then private jet off to Brussels to do their little cap clutching Paddy dance for their masters to get their heads patted.

El_Bee

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Because people say we need perpetual growth because we need people to pay for pensions and look after old people. I don't see how this can continue forever though.

But the same people acknowledge that Automation is now and will continue to cause the labour market to shrink,Transport alone is going to change radically in the next 30 years or so, driving as a job will cease to exist.