Death knell for petrol and diesel cars?

bennyineire

8-10 wrote: »

These lazy myths are tiresome. It is demonstrably not shifting the burden equivalently onto power plants.

https://knowledge.insead.edu/blog/insead-blog/the-four-most-prevalent-myths-about-electric-cars-10381

Electric cars is the future and I can't wait to trade up my hybrid to full electric. Never going back.

Yep same as that, the current family car us a 2008 petrol Vectra. We are planning a family holiday to Orlando next year so we will drive the bag out of it until then. But late next/early 2021 we will be getting a new car and it will at the very least be a hybrid.

I'd imagine a lot of people out there are planning the same as I, I said here last year that there is a cliff coming for the second hand market for diesel cars very soon and I was laughed at.

I believe that cliff will come in the next 5 years, anyone buying a brand new diesel car now with the plan to upgrade in 5 years would need their head examined IMHO

Captain Chaos

GreeBo wrote: »

There will be thousands of second hand electric cars by then...whats the issue?

They will be outdated tech. Electric car tech is advancing rapidly year on year. The battery and charging tech being the main areas. You can already see this with the fast charge cars out now versus the very first gen EVs.

To me the concept of buy a second hand EV is like buying a second hand mobile phone, the battery will be knackered in both so not worth the money.

Cee-Jay-Cee

The government were hammered in local elections and Greens reaped the benefits less than a month ago. So typically the knee jerk reactionary government drummed up this climate change document with no costing or proper planning. They threw out a few dates for when they want to have certain measure implemented but its all bull****. Nothing, NOTHING has ever ran on time in this country, every successive government has failed abysmally reaching targets/dates in relation to climate change and this is going to be no different.

They cant declare a ban on petrol/diesel cars in 11 years when so far to date they have spent next to zero on EV charging points, public transport, cycling infrastructure etc etc in the last decade. Its a ridiculous pipe dream to try and win back voters before the next GE and more about increasing taxes than anything else.

Besides I believe FG are finished in government in the next GE especially if that idiot Leo remains in charge.

Zenith74

namloc1980 wrote: »

Until they come up with a home charging solution for those of us who don't have off street parking then EVs just don't make any sense.

For you. EVs make perfect sense for a significant portion of the population who do have the ability to charge at home or at work.

Perfect is the enemy of good; we don't need to wait for every issue with EVs to be solved before beginning to move. Cannot charge at home yet, EVs are not ready for you yet. Need to drive 500km a day with few breaks, EVs are not ready for you yet. Can only afford a €2k car, EVs are not ready for you yet. Need a 7 seater to haul around the family for €20k, EVs are not ready for you yet. Yet being the operative word there though. But those that can move should be encouraged/pushed.

Even 10%/20% of cars switching to EVs would have a real impact on air quality and these kinds of sales will bring down prices to help the next wave of EV buyers get in.

namloc1980

Zenith74 wrote: »

For you. EVs make perfect sense for a significant portion of the population who do have the ability to charge at home or at work.

Perfect is the enemy of good; we don't need to wait for every issue with EVs to be solved before beginning to move. Cannot charge at home yet, EVs are not ready for you yet. Need to drive 500km a day with few breaks, EVs are not ready for you yet. Can only afford a €2k car, EVs are not ready for you yet. Need a 7 seater to haul around the family for €20k, EVs are not ready for you yet. Yet being the operative word there though. But those that can move should be encouraged/pushed.

Even 10%/20% of cars switching to EVs would have a real impact on air quality and these kinds of sales will bring down prices to help the next wave of EV buyers get in.

That's all lovely but the government has stated that all new cars from 2030 must be EV. If they want us all to be in EVs then they MUST provide the infrastructure.

ednwireland

i would be more impressed with a reduce useage culture , but unfortunataely that doesnt fit with our year on year growth requirements.
as previous posters have said, massive investment in public transport alternatives is needed, aqs far as i know theres 50 billion in road investment (in the national development plan) and nothing for public transport. not seeing an awful lot of joined up thinking there.

KrakityJones

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

The government were hammered in local elections and Greens reaped the benefits less than a month ago. So typically the knee jerk reactionary government drummed up this climate change document with no costing or proper planning. They threw out a few dates for when they want to have certain measure implemented but its all bull****. Nothing, NOTHING has ever ran on time in this country, every successive government has failed abysmally reaching targets/dates and this is going to be no different.

They cant declare a ban on petrol/diesel cars after 2030 when so far to date they have spent next to zero on charging points, public transport, cycling infrastructure etc etc Its a ridiculous pipe dream to try and win back voters before the next GE.

Wholeheartedly agree with you on this one. FG got a slap in the face from the greens. Don't forget the comments Varadker made after the election results

"The public have sent us a message which is that they want us to accelerate action on climate. It will require changes at individual, community and national level. It won't be easy and won't always be popular but the public support is there for it now"


In other words - ye voted for the greens, no problem I'll lash up taxes and say it's because ye told us ye wanted that for "the environment", because every euro of that will go into green initiatives or public transport.. sure.


Don't get me wrong I actually voted for a green candidate, and I'd love to see something being done, but our current crowd won't do a thing - the only solution we hear time and time again are not that they're going to pump funds into r&d for alternative fuels, or to create a proper charging grid, or address rural public transport issues. No let's up tax - that'll fix things.


So yeah it's exactly that - noise because the greens got votes.

bennyineire

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They will be outdated tech. Electric car tech is advancing rapidly year on year. The battery and charging tech being the main areas. You can already see this with the fast charge cars out now versus the very first gen EVs.

To me the concept of buy a second hand EV is like buying a second hand mobile phone, the battery will be knackered in both so not worth the money.

You do know that you can upgrade the batteries right ?

Eric Cartman

GreeBo wrote: »

There will be thousands of second hand electric cars by then...whats the issue?

Unlike ICE cars, when they get to about 10 years old , the cost of replacing the battery makes them almost a writeoff. As they get cheaper it will make them worth scrap

Eric Cartman

bennyineire wrote: »

You do know that you can upgrade the batteries right ?

Yeah but you buy a new battery for say 7.5k , thats the new floor in car prices, I can currently go out and buy a roadworthy petrol car for 1000 easily. Its going to mean a lot of vehicles scrapped after a decade when its simply not worth it to put a battery in

ednwireland

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

The government were hammered in local elections and Greens reaped the benefits less than a month ago. So typically the knee jerk reactionary government drummed up this climate change document with no costing or proper planning. They threw out a few dates for when they want to have certain measure implemented but its all bull****. Nothing, NOTHING has ever ran on time in this country, every successive government has failed abysmally reaching targets/dates in relation to climate change and this is going to be no different.

They cant declare a ban on petrol/diesel cars in 11 years when so far to date they have spent next to zero on EV charging points, public transport, cycling infrastructure etc etc in the last decade. Its a ridiculous pipe dream to try and win back voters before the next GE and more about increasing taxes than anything else.

Besides I believe FG are finished in government in the next GE especially if that idiot Leo remains in charge.

KrakityJones wrote: »

Wholeheartedly agree with you on this one. FG got a slap in the face from the greens. Don't forget the comments Varadker made after the election results

"The public have sent us a message which is that they want us to accelerate action on climate. It will require changes at individual, community and national level. It won't be easy and won't always be popular but the public support is there for it now"


In other words - ye voted for the greens, no problem I'll lash up taxes and say it's because ye told us ye wanted that for "the environment", because every euro of that will go into green initiatives or public transport.. sure.


Don't get me wrong I actually voted for a green candidate, and I'd love to see something being done, but our current crowd won't do a thing - the only solution we hear time and time again are not that they're going to pump funds into r&d for alternative fuels, or to create a proper charging grid, or address rural public transport issues. No let's up tax - that'll fix things.


So yeah it's exactly that - noise because the greens got votes.

92% didnt vote green, fg increased their vote share in the european and local elections. this is purely a tax grab on the back of garbage reporting from rte of a 'green wave'. i dont see any behaviorial change in young people today apart from 'plastics bad' after watching the blue planet. if we ever get a governemnt that can can think further than its own paychecks ill be amazed

bennyineire

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Yeah but you buy a new battery for say 7.5k , thats the new floor in car prices, I can currently go out and buy a roadworthy petrol car for 1000 easily. Its going to mean a lot of vehicles scrapped after a decade when its simply not worth it to put a battery in

Current prices yes but like all mass production the price will drop, remember when 40" plasma screens were €10K

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Very important we get diesels banned from our cities within the next year or two.

It’s a ridiculous idea that will just put hardship and expense on an awful lot of people so I can’t see it happening anytime soon. People need to drive into the city for work etc and forcing them into electric cars that most don’t want and even if they want can’t afford is madness.

Diesel and petrol will be around for a very long time imo, I don’t have much heed for this scaremongering. That’s what people want to drive, myself included.

amcalester

Kristopher Nervous Killer wrote: »

It’s a ridiculous idea that will just put hardship and expense on an awful lot of people so I can’t see it happening anytime soon. People need to drive into the city for work etc and forcing them into electric cars that most don’t want and even if they want can’t afford is madness.

Diesel and petrol will be around for a very long time imo, I don’t have much heed for this scaremongering. That’s what people want to drive, myself included.

Which is it? A want or a need?

cournioni

Money racket, pure and simple.

Same thing happens any time the Greens get a few seats. They'll lose their seats as soon as the following election comes up when people realise the scam that they run (like the last time they were in).

run_Forrest_run

Kristopher Nervous Killer wrote: »

People need to drive into the city for work etc and forcing them into electric cars that most don’t want and even if they want can’t afford is madness.

this is part of the problem, most people would not need to take their cars into the city if there was an efficient and regular park and ride service at various points around the city, but this Government would rather push the entire problem on the people rather than helping the people to reduce their carbon emissions.

drunkmonkey

bennyineire wrote: »

Current prices yes but like all mass production the price will drop, remember when 40" plasma screens were €10K

Good example, plasma was and still is superior to led, they were just too expensive for the ordinary consumer much like an EV is today. Cue Hydrogen as the future as it's a lot easier make. The EU, US and Asia are all backing hydrogen yet were going for Lithium. Bad move it's expensive and volatile.
I can't wait to see insurance quotes once EV's become main stream as these battery packs will be need to be fully checked for any damage after a slight fender bender as the chances of them exploding are high. A hydrogen fire is a lot easier put out.

What are we doing with the million cars were taking off the road, exporting them so some other countries can use them? Begs the question, what's the point. Just do a Cuba on it and ban the import of new cars.

InTheShadows

cournioni wrote: »

Money racket, pure and simple.

Same thing happens any time the Greens get a few seats. They'll lose their seats as soon as the following election comes up when people realise the scam that they run (like the last time they were in).

The funny thing is they got 8% of the overall vote in the recent election, you'd swear they got Kim Jong Un levels of popularity from the spin we are hearing pumped out from the media recently.

I'll be voting for whatever political organisation that puts this "green wave" back in it's rightful place.

GreeBo

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They will be outdated tech. Electric car tech is advancing rapidly year on year. The battery and charging tech being the main areas. You can already see this with the fast charge cars out now versus the very first gen EVs.

To me the concept of buy a second hand EV is like buying a second hand mobile phone, the battery will be knackered in both so not worth the money.

The second hand diesels that people are in love with are also old tech but people still buy them.

You don't have to buy a 15 year old EV, the market will be flooded with EV's in 20 years, buy one that's 4 years old then.

People are SO against EV's for some reason, boggles the mind.
Especially when people are against what they will be in 20 years time.

GreeBo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Yeah but you buy a new battery for say 7.5k , thats the new floor in car prices, I can currently go out and buy a roadworthy petrol car for 1000 easily. Its going to mean a lot of vehicles scrapped after a decade when its simply not worth it to put a battery in

And that 1000 car is going to cost you how much in fuel every year?
How about maintenance and repairs?

New battery is, currently, say 7K.
How much is a new gearbox, DPF, timing belt, turbo, DMF?

GreeBo

cournioni wrote: »

Money racket, pure and simple.

Same thing happens any time the Greens get a few seats. They'll lose their seats as soon as the following election comes up when people realise the scam that they run (like the last time they were in).

Who are the greens making money for?

The One Doctor

Kristopher Nervous Killer wrote: »

It’s a ridiculous idea that will just put hardship and expense on an awful lot of people so I can’t see it happening anytime soon. People need to drive into the city for work etc and forcing them into electric cars that most don’t want and even if they want can’t afford is madness.

Diesel and petrol will be around for a very long time imo, I don’t have much heed for this scaremongering. That’s what people want to drive, myself included.

Diesel is polluting on a personal level. In a city, emissions are concentrated and people's health is affected in the long run. Children are much more likely to have respiratory problems.

The irony about all this is that the Greens were the party that made the diesel so popular. Their shortsighted policies caused a lot of health problems for people in towns and cities

The end will come for diesels. Diesels are more expensive than petrols over the long run anyway. €1000 injectors, DMF, DPF, ad blue, turbos, pump problems...

GreeBo

The One Doctor wrote: »

Diesel is polluting on a personal level. In a city, emissions are concentrated and people's health is affected in the long run. Children are much more likely to have respiratory problems.

The irony about all this is that the Greens were the party that made the diesel so popular. Their shortsighted policies caused a lot of health problems for people in towns and cities

The end will come for diesels. Anyway, diesels are more expensive than petrols over the long run anyway. €1000 injectors, DMF, DPF, ad blue, turbos, pump problems...

Their "short-sighted" policies were based on statistics.....unfortunately those stats were being manipulated by the car manufacturers.
But I guess you think the greens were in on this?

drunkmonkey

GreeBo wrote: »

The second hand diesels that people are in love with are also old tech but people still buy them.

You don't have to buy a 15 year old EV, the market will be flooded with EV's in 20 years, buy one that's 4 years old then.

Your putting a lot of faith in the stability and longivety of lithium batteries. All EV's on sale now will be long decommissioned by then.

Zenith74

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's all lovely but the government has stated that all new cars from 2030 must be EV. If they want us all to be in EVs then they MUST provide the infrastructure.

100% agree, I was only responding to your assertion that EVs don't make any sense because apartment dwellers cannot charge them. Maybe you only meant they don't make any sense for apartment dwellers, in which-case apologies, I took it that you suggesting we should not bother with EVs at all until they can achieve every possible edge-case...

ednwireland wrote: »

i would be more impressed with a reduce useage culture , but unfortunataely that doesnt fit with our year on year growth requirements.
as previous posters have said, massive investment in public transport alternatives is needed, aqs far as i know theres 50 billion in road investment (in the national development plan) and nothing for public transport. not seeing an awful lot of joined up thinking there.

There's loads in the plan on public transport, air travel, cycling etc. You're just seeing EVs being discussed here because this is the EV forum, in reality they only get a few pages in the 265 page document.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/documents/Climate%20Action%20Plan%202019.pdf
Transport is from page 81.

GreeBo

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your putting a lot of faith in the stability and longivety of lithium batteries. All EV's on sale now will be long decommissioned by then.

Well KIA's have an 8 year warranty and I'm pretty sure they dont self-destruct after that, they just get less efficient at charge and discharge, do you consider 2 years a "long" time.
But anyway, who said anything about buying EVs that are on sale now?

We are talking about 10 years down the road.
Ignoring what battery tech will be by then, just buy one in 8 years time.
You now have a 2 year old EV, with probably 5 years warranty left on it...congratulations.

Why are people overcomplicating this?

AlmightyCushion

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's all lovely but the government has stated that all new cars from 2030 must be EV. If they want us all to be in EVs then they MUST provide the infrastructure.

There is a charging network being rolled out as we speak. It's not like they're banning the sale of non EVs tomorrow. It's 10 years away. Even in 10 years you will be able to buy a second hand petrol or diesel car if you want to.

The One Doctor

GreeBo wrote: »

Their "short-sighted" policies were based on statistics.....unfortunately those stats were being manipulated by the car manufacturers.
But I guess you think the greens were in on this?

No I don't, they just didn't do their research properly. But they're still to blame in the end and we're stuck with dirty, noisy diesels.

Can you tell that I really, really hate diesels?

run_Forrest_run

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

this is part of the problem, most people would not need to take their cars into the city if there was an efficient and regular park and ride service at various points around the city, but this Government would rather push the entire problem on the people rather than helping the people to reduce their carbon emissions.

I doubt most people have any interest in park and ride, it’s certainly very unappealing to me compared to driving directly to work and parking right outside the door, having my car close by if needed during the day, having anything I need with me in the car, what if I want to go somewhere in the city after work other than home etc.

The One Doctor wrote: »

The end will come for diesels. Diesels are more expensive than petrols over the long run anyway. €1000 injectors, DMF, DPF, ad blue, turbos, pump problems...

Diesels aren’t more expensive, a few scaremongering stories do not reflect the reality. We have always had mostly diesels in the household and never have had the above issues (I currently have a petrol and a diesel car (recently purchased and zero fear of any big changes coming).

Eric Cartman

bennyineire wrote: »

Current prices yes but like all mass production the price will drop, remember when 40" plasma screens were €10K

Terrible example, we’re pretty much at peak lithium ion battery production, theyre in everything, regardless of scale a li-ion cell is a li-ion cell. Theres no more volume doscount to be had. Plasma tv’s were 10k because they were new, this is a 30 year old technology thats used in everything, it couldnt get more ubiquitous.

Then you also have the ability of china to turn round and say nah, cut lithium mining and the price skyrockets

bonzos

Didn't they greens persuade us all to buy diesel cars in 2008 via taxation, how can they now turn and push for the total opposite?

jmayo

n97 mini wrote: »

And then there's no mention of agriculture, which is the biggest source of emissions, but is projected to just grow and grow. Almost as if they're aiming for 100% of our emissions to come from agriculture.

Oh yes another clown that wants to screw the only fooking indigenous large scale employer we have.
It is fooking marvellous how many eejits in this country actually believe the hype about how great we are what with the value of our current exports.

And they totally forget that if the tax regime changes somewhere else all those FDI mult5inaitonals will be off like lot of FDI manufacturers did in the past.
Or agri industry is going nowhere and will still be here, so stop fooking trying to screw it up. :mad::mad:

freddieot wrote: »

Don 't be in too much of a panic or a hurry over this.

Anyone know the plan for how many power stations we are going to build to power all the recharging that will be needed in 2030 ?

Are we going nuclear to keep cost down (like some of our EU comrades that have less carbon emissions) or will the cost of electricity go through the roof ?

Also, anyone who thinks that taxes (road tax, VRT etc.) won't skyrocket for EVs in a few years once the number of electric vehicles reaches a certain tipping point is badly mistaken. This is a money \ tax grabbing country and if they lose tax from petrol \ diesel drivers then they will bleed the new crop of EV drivers instead.

As regards buying electric now, it's perhaps an even bigger risk than buying diesel. In 6 years time in 2025, there will still be a big market for diesel 2nd hand vehicles. Apart from other considerations, the alternative will be to purchase 2nd hand EV vehicles that will have todays technology. Anyone remember what happened to older mobile phones when smartphones came along ?

A lot of sense there.
This is a load of shyte that was concocted because someone in FG figured out there are green votes to be had and Leo the spiv wants to look good.

What will the massive annual cash cow that is the fossil fuel motorist going to be replaced with ?

How will all these electric cars charge ?

Oh yeah we had a great spiel this morning from that backstabber Bruton about wind farms and renewables.

Except he fails to mention about what happens when the wind fails to blow and what happens when all those green supporters start complaining about the planning for all the necessary wind farms in the first place.

This is another national broadband plan and we see how that has gone. :rolleyes:

If they really gave a shyte and had any long term planning they would have more electric public transport bar the one they showed up on and the other two.

And as someone else said earlier, it doesn't matter what the fook we do if Asia and the states do shag all.
And that will only start happening when some of those feckers are knee deep in water. :rolleyes:

namloc1980

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

There is a charging network being rolled out as we speak. It's not like they're banning the sale of non EVs tomorrow. It's 10 years away. Even in 10 years you will be able to buy a second hand petrol or diesel car if you want to.

Unless or until public charging becomes as quick and as convenient as filling up at a petrol station then home charging is a necessity for EV owners to avoid significant frustration. A significant number of people don't have off street parking. If the future is EV then infrastructure will need to be provided to cater for this. That's all I'm saying.

Stoner

8-10 wrote:

Electric cars is the future and I can't wait to trade up my hybrid to full electric. Never going back.

I'm the same, my hybrid is a 141, it's the longest time I've ever had a car for but I'm waiting for the right EV

bennyineire

bennyineire wrote: »

.............
I believe that cliff will come in the next 5 years, anyone buying a brand new diesel car now with the plan to upgrade in 5 years would need their head examined IMHO

Trading in a 5 year old diesel you're lucky to see 25% of the original value....... if you need a diesel now and an EV won't suit you I'd still suggest folk go with a diesel tbh
It might be worth less then you'd like but if it suits your needs go for it

phill106

namloc1980 wrote: »

Unless or until public charging becomes as quick and as convenient as filling up at a petrol station then home charging is a necessity for EV owners to avoid significant frustration. A significant number of people don't have off street parking. If the future is EV then infrastructure will need to be provided to cater for this. That's all I'm saying.

Isn't it as easy as that though? Don't the majority of petrol stations ( actually will we need to rename them?!) have at least one electric charging point?

I dont have an ev at the moment, but am considering it. Live in shannon, which as towns go isnt the largest, doesnt even make top 20 in population.
From what i can see, there is 2 public charging spaces, one at topaz, one at gardai station.

Would the issue be the slow charging time vs traditional fuel, occupying the points for much longer times?

AlmightyCushion

namloc1980 wrote: »

Unless or until public charging becomes as quick and as convenient as filling up at a petrol station then home charging is a necessity for EV owners to avoid significant frustration. A significant number of people don't have off street parking. If the future is EV then infrastructure will need to be provided to cater for this. That's all I'm saying.

And I'm saying the infrastructure is being rolled out. There is the Ionity network. Lidl are installing charging points in all their stores. Local authorities have to provide hundreds of charging points every year as part of the plan.

GreeBo

The One Doctor wrote: »

No I don't, they just didn't do their research properly. But they're still to blame in the end and we're stuck with dirty, noisy diesels.

Can you tell that I really, really hate diesels?

I think its pretty unfair to say they didnt do their research.
The worlds major manufactures were lying and faking stats...

ednwireland

Zenith74 wrote: »

There's loads in the plan on public transport, air travel, cycling etc. You're just seeing EVs being discussed here because this is the EV forum, in reality they only get a few pages in the 265 page document.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/documents/Climate%20Action%20Plan%202019.pdf
Transport is from page 81.

there really isnt

GreeBo

Kristopher Nervous Killer wrote: »

Diesels aren’t more expensive, a few scaremongering stories do not reflect the reality. We have always had mostly diesels in the household and never have had the above issues (I currently have a petrol and a diesel car (recently purchased and zero fear of any big changes coming).

What age are your diesels cars?
All cars are fine when they are new.

ethernet

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Good example, plasma was and still is superior to led, they were just too expensive for the ordinary consumer much like an EV is today.

Not sure about that. A major issue was the much higher power consumption and heat they give off.

Cue Hydrogen as the future as it's a lot easier make.

Is it? The bulk of it is just made from gas - yet another fossil fuel - right now. That's before you add in the high cost of building storage stations for it.

The EU, US and Asia are all backing hydrogen yet were going for Lithium. Bad move it's expensive and volatile.

Toyota and co bet on hydrogen - investing millions - but the market is favouring EVs so of course they are disappointed and still pushing hydrogen.

I can't wait to see insurance quotes once EV's become main stream as these battery packs will be need to be fully checked for any damage after a slight fender bender as the chances of them exploding are high.

The batteries are in an enclosure so it's no different to having a fender bender in a combustion car.

A hydrogen fire is a lot easier put out.

As we recently saw: https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/12/norway-hydrogen-station-explodes-toyota-hyundai-halt-sales/

What are we doing with the million cars were taking off the road, exporting them so some other countries can use them? Begs the question, what's the point. Just do a Cuba on it and ban the import of new cars.

I would hope people give them a good run before - no point switching just for the sake of it as that's just wasteful. But if it's time to upgrade and an EV is a contender, fair enough.

GreeBo

Kristopher Nervous Killer wrote: »

I doubt most people have any interest in park and ride, it’s certainly very unappealing to me compared to driving directly to work and parking right outside the door, having my car close by if needed during the day, having anything I need with me in the car, what if I want to go somewhere in the city after work other than home etc.

And thats fine, but expect to pay for the privilege with congestion charges etc.

is_that_so

Kristopher Nervous Killer wrote: »

I doubt most people have any interest in park and ride, it’s certainly very unappealing to me compared to driving directly to work and parking right outside the door, having my car close by if needed during the day, having anything I need with me in the car, what if I want to go somewhere in the city after work other than home etc.

I use it and did so a lot more in the past. I preferred it most of the time. It beats facing the traffic mess in the city centre even if a car allows you more flexibility for the evening.

adocholiday

I have a 60km commute each way to work, I drive a 2010 diesel car and I intend on driving it until it's dead. I was going to upgrade to an electric when I moved but price, lack of charging options where I work, and the fact that the tech is evolving at a rapid pace completely put me off. 31k for the most basic Hyundai Ioniq electric is madness IMO.

If the government are serious about going green they need to seriously invest in public transport. I'd take a train or bus if it were viable for me, but even though I live a 5 minute drive from a direct train into Dublin the fact that it's a single line with only 2 morning services and 1 viable evening service means that it's not even an option for me. So unless electric vehicles become viable for people outside the cities and/or public transport is massively upgraded, I'll be driving a petrol or diesel car until it is forcefully taken from me.

8-10

Stoner wrote: »

I'm the same, my hybrid is a 141, it's the longest time I've ever had a car for but I'm waiting for the right EV

I'm waiting to buy a house which is the main reason I'm holding off. Once I have a place it's my next priority. Work have already installed chargers in the parking spaces this year which will also help

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

What age are your diesels cars?
All cars are fine when they are new.

My current diesel is two years old but we have diesels in the family from less than a year old to 15 years old and no issues with any of the usual scaremongering issues like dpf etc. The issues are massively exaggerated on this forum.

is_that_so wrote: »

I use it and did so a lot more in the past. I preferred it most of the time. It beats facing the traffic mess in the city centre even if a car allows you more flexibility for the evening.

I don’t have traffic issue as my hours are flexible so I never travel into the city before 9:15 am or so when most of the traffic has gone. Same in the evening, never leave work before 6 and it’s generally closer to 7pm so no traffic issues.

8-10

Kristopher Nervous Killer wrote: »

I don’t have traffic issue as my hours are flexible so I never travel into the city before 9:15 am or so when most of the traffic has gone. Same in the evening, never leave work before 6 and it’s generally closer to 7pm so no traffic issues.

How far are you driving each way?

jmayo

GreeBo wrote: »

What age are your diesels cars?
All cars are fine when they are new.

I drive a 12 year old diesel and have had it for 8 years, the one before that was 7 years old, and the one before that was 11 years old when I got rid of it.

Now yes they may be smoky on start up. Actually the 7 year old one was very smoky when the engine blew and the injectors went into meltdown.

But I am not having any impact on environment on creation of brand spanking new cars every few years.

And I am not also buying new electric battery powered goods every year or two just so that I can claim I have the latest gizmo.

What environmental impact is one having if they are going out every other year and buying new devices and now new cars that have fancy hitech rare earth mineral batteries ?
How much of the worlds salt flats are going to be left, how many more heavily polluted areas are we going to see in Tibet ?

BTW if they are talking about phasing out fossil fuels by 2030 how are they going to construct and maintain all these necessary wind farms ?
How will they power the ships and trucks necessary in the construction of these wind farms ?

namloc1980

phill106 wrote: »

Isn't it as easy as that though? Don't the majority of petrol stations ( actually will we need to rename them?!) have at least one electric charging point?

I dont have an ev at the moment, but am considering it. Live in shannon, which as towns go isnt the largest, doesnt even make top 20 in population.
From what i can see, there is 2 public charging spaces, one at topaz, one at gardai station.

Would the issue be the slow charging time vs traditional fuel, occupying the points for much longer times?

An EV makes sense for me in that I don't have a long commute and don't do long journeys. However I have no private parking space so can't install a charger at home. The public network is too sporadic and frankly unreliable to be relied upon exclusively. Not to mention the cars hogging the few available public chargers for hours on end. I'm sure it'll get better but there needs to be enormous steps forward to make EVs viable for people who can't have home charging.

CoBo55

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

The government were hammered in local elections and Greens reaped the benefits less than a month ago. So typically the knee jerk reactionary government drummed up this climate change document with no costing or proper planning. They threw out a few dates for when they want to have certain measure implemented but its all bull****. Nothing, NOTHING has ever ran on time in this country, every successive government has failed abysmally reaching targets/dates in relation to climate change and this is going to be no different.

They cant declare a ban on petrol/diesel cars in 11 years when so far to date they have spent next to zero on EV charging points, public transport, cycling infrastructure etc etc in the last decade. Its a ridiculous pipe dream to try and win back voters before the next GE and more about increasing taxes than anything else.

Besides I believe FG are finished in government in the next GE especially if that idiot Leo remains in charge.

Best post of the thread. You're spot on.