Death knell for petrol and diesel cars?

AlmightyCushion

grogi wrote: »

Who?! I am not aware of any single nation that has a complete diesel ban.

Off the top of my head Paris, Hamburg and Stuttgart have started banning or restricting older diesel cars. I can't recall any that have had complete bans though. Even still banning older diesels would be a start. It also might discourage sales of newer diesels and mean people are more likely to consider a petrol, hybrid or EV instead.

dmcsweeney

Deleted User wrote: »

Co2 and pollution are two completely different things.

Co2 is not a pollutant.

The real issues with emissions from the burning of fossil fuels is Nox and PM2.5 , that's real and very nasty pollution. Co2 is harmless, unless of course you put a bag over your head........

Let me rephrase that...green house gases. C02 makes up a large percentage of that, and the push on electric cars (the subject of this tread) is to reduce it. And you're correct, perfectly harmless in normal concentrations, but try telling an environmentalist that and they'll run you over on their push bike.

dmcsweeney

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Off the top of my head Paris, Hamburg and Stuttgart have started banning or restricting older diesel cars. I can't recall any that have had complete bans though. Even still banning older diesels would be a start. It also might discourage sales of newer diesels and mean people are more likely to consider a petrol, hybrid or EV instead.

I agree with the idea of moving away from older cars, but not just diesels. Diesel bashing has been very fashionable in the last number of years, but going petrol is not the way. Again it's horses for courses, and putting a load of petrols back on the road would be a major step backwards. I've driven a hybrid and it was totally unsuited to my type of use, in fact it was an absolute alcoholic compared with my diesel. The same car in the city, while not as good as an EV, would be far better than diesel.

grogi

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Off the top of my head Paris, Hamburg and Stuttgart have started banning or restricting older diesel cars. I can't recall any that have had complete bans though. Even still banning older diesels would be a start. It also might discourage sales of newer diesels and mean people are more likely to consider a petrol, hybrid or EV instead.

Older... Nobody is banning Euro6 diesels and won't for years to come.

GreeBo

lipso wrote: »

Can anyone do the nitty gritty and roughly calculate the average cost of running a diesel v petrol v hybrid v EV? per week or month or year
Eg. For each type: Tax; Insurance: Fuel cost; Maintenance


Tax for a hybrid is 180/190 and for EV 120

It totally depends on your mileage.

Another thread had a guy doing 950KM/week and that worked out at about €3,000 in diesel costs per year vs I think €350 in electricity costs (assuming charging at home on day rate)

sk8board

lipso wrote: »

Can anyone do the nitty gritty and roughly calculate the average cost of running a diesel v petrol v hybrid v EV? per week or month or year
Eg. For each type: Tax; Insurance: Fuel cost; Maintenance


Tax for a hybrid is 180/190 and for EV 120

lots of online calculators too for total cost of ownership.

Heres my own (rough!) numbers if I was buying a Kona:

Annual km's:12,000
Tax: €120 v €200 currently
Fuel: about €150 v €1000 currently (just over 1x€75 fill per month)
Home charger: couple of hundred € after grants, versus €0 currently
purchase cost: ICE kona €25. EV Kona €39k (€49k before grants).

Factor it all in, and it would take 10-15 years for the EV to make economic sense for me, and thats without factoring in the lost opportunity cost of that extra €15k purchase cost.

AlmightyCushion

grogi wrote: »

Older... Nobody is banning Euro6 diesels and won't for years to come.

I know it's older, that's why I said older in my post.

knipex

unkel wrote:

Trying to do a basic sum here, my maths roughly correct? The biggest current gen off shore wind turbines (already installed) have a power of 10MW. Let's just for simplicity assume these are constantly running at full power. These yokes are 200m high and the rated wind speed (that gives them full power) is just 20km/h. That means that one wind turbine


10 * 24 hours * 365 days = 87600MWh, or 0.087TWh per year

Your confusing installed capacity with actual generation capacity. Not the same, not even close.

On land wind farms have a a load factor as low as 18% (crap sites heavily subsidised) to a good site of 32%. A 30% factor is considered good so will generate over a year 30% of the installed capacity potential.

Off shore from memory is about 40 to 45%. Perhaps slightly higher now.

Land wind turbines cost (or used to) about 3 million per Mw installed. Offshore was 3 to 4 times that..

The idea that wind power is cheap is a myth. It's not. It's also variable and has to be backed up for when the wind slows or stops. Alot of wind power generated is never used as its generated when it's not required so is dumped to earth.. but paid for..

Tidal looks really interesting, solar is far more reliable. It's no surprise that many european countries piled out of onshore wind the same time we piled in..

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

Thats true, but you would you pay to supply a charger every 10KM in the country? Thats about 8500 charge points, most of which would be in the back arse of nowhere.

Range anxiety is already pretty much a moot point for 95%+ of Irish drivers.
The average is 40km a day or something ridiculous like that. Thats 10 trips before you recharge a Kona.

It is until they travel further away from home, weekends away,holidays etc or need the car to go to the U.K, France etc.

The i3 is suitable for about 95% of my 30,000 Kms per year but the time it is not would be very, very inconvenient with the potential for a 2 hr wait in a queue at charge points, this is why I have the Rex so I can go anywhere any time.

If I had a Kona with 400 odd Km range then this would mean less need for Public chargers but the potential for 2 hr wait still exists when I need it so while range is improving the network has a very long way to go.

I drove the LEaf 24 Kwh for 3 years and 85,000 Kms and I would not go fully electric again until the public infrastructure has greatly improved.

dmcsweeney

dmcsweeney wrote: »

........... I've driven a hybrid and it was totally unsuited to my type of use, in fact it was an absolute alcoholic compared with my diesel. The same car in the city, while not as good as an EV, would be far better than diesel.

My Dad has an is300h, does better then 6.0l/100km on the motorway and about 7.0l/100km mixed driving with loads of short city spins, he'd be up doing 4 or 6 trips a day that are under 1km.... way under

Does loads (once a week at least) of long runs too so EV wouldn't suit him.

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

It is until they travel further away from home, weekends away,holidays etc or need the car to go to the U.K, France etc.

Dingle to Portrush is 600Km and you could fast charge in Dublin in 20 mins.

I just did a quick Google and the breaking news is that, despite looming Brexit, they have electricity in the UK too.

The Frenchies also have it btw.

Deleted User wrote: »

The i3 is suitable for about 95% of my 30,000 Kms per year but the time it is not would be very, very inconvenient with the potential for a 2 hr wait in a queue at charge points, this is why I have the Rex so I can go anywhere any time.

If I had a Kona with 400 odd Km range then this would mean less need for Public chargers but the potential for 2 hr wait still exists when I need it so while range is improving the network has a very long way to go.

2 hour wait?

Deleted User wrote: »

I drove the LEaf 24 Kwh for 3 years and 85,000 Kms and I would not go fully electric again until the public infrastructure has greatly improved.

So for 2 large long journeys you *might* take a year, you cant organise yourself to do it in a car with 400KM range?

GreeBo

Augeo wrote: »

My Dad has an is300h, does better then 6.0l/100km on the motorway and about 7.0l/100km mixed driving with loads of short city spins, he'd be up doing 4 or 6 trips a day that are under 1km.... way under

Does loads (once a week at least) of long runs too so EV wouldn't suit him.

Define "long run" though?

tayto lover

What kind of problems do used EV’s carry lads?
I intend buying one in the next year or two.
One in the 15 k euro range and automatic.
My annual mileage is low, about 9,000 km a year and my longest journey is usually about 150 km.

Would there be many out there to suit me as I see there’s less than 5,000 ev’s on the roads now.

Lumen

sk8board wrote: »

lots of online calculators too for total cost of ownership.

Heres my own (rough!) numbers if I was buying a Kona:

Annual km's:12,000
Tax: €120 v €200 currently
Fuel: about €150 v €1000 currently (just over 1x€75 fill per month)
Home charger: couple of hundred € after grants, versus €0 currently
purchase cost: ICE kona €25. EV Kona €39k (€49k before grants).

Factor it all in, and it would take 10-15 years for the EV to make economic sense for me, and thats without factoring in the lost opportunity cost of that extra €15k purchase cost.

That's not really a fair comparison, since performance-wise the equivalent ICE car to the Kona EV is the 1.6 T-GDI, which is about €32/33k not €25k.

On that basis the difference shrinks to about 7.5k, so by your logic the payback period is 5-7.5 years, not 10-15.

Who knows what resale will be like though. I have a 2005 2.2 diesel that still goes like stink (and stinks like stink) but I'd probably have to pay someone to take it off my hands due to the tax and insurance costs. Maybe ICE cars will be the same in 14 years' time. Or maybe the EV battery will be dead and irreplacable. Who knows....

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

Define "long run" though?

100+km both ways.

Before you start "The EPA has given the 2018 Nissan Leaf an estimated range of 151 miles from its 40-kWh battery"

GreeBo

Augeo wrote: »

100+km both ways.

Before you start "The EPA has given the 2018 Nissan Leaf an estimated range of 151 miles from its 40-kWh battery"

So then he wouldn't buy a leaf. There are other EV manufacturers you know?

He could buy a Hyundai or Kia or several other cars.

151 miles or 243KM. Whats the issue again?

elperello

Lumen wrote: »

That's not really a fair comparison, since performance-wise the equivalent ICE car to the Kona EV is the 1.6 T-GDI, which is about €32/33k not €25k.

On that basis the difference shrinks to about 7.5k, so by your logic the payback period is 5-7.5 years, not 10-15.

Who knows what resale will be like though. I have a 2005 2.2 diesel that still goes like stink (and stinks like stink) but I'd probably have to pay someone to take it off my hands due to the tax and insurance costs. Maybe ICE cars will be the same in 14 years' time. Or maybe the EV battery will be dead and irreplacable. Who knows....

I like that approach.
Truth is nobody knows for certain.
Most people just want a car that does what they need a car for.
At the moment it's hard to see it working for a lot of drivers and subsequently there is a good bit of push back.

GreeBo

elperello wrote: »

At the moment it's hard to see it working for a lot of drivers

This is the bit I dont get.
What bit doesn't work?

Unless you are doing huge (400KM+), daily distances or don't have access to a socket at either, home, office or destination then it works...right?

What percentage of drivers is that?

Gumbo

GreeBo wrote: »

2 hour wait?

Yes, if you pull up at a charger and theres a L40 and a Kona in front of you, you have a wait ahead of you.

Charges may stop the abuse of the network as people wont be hanging around for free electricity but at the moment I would hate to pull up at a Public charger and have a Kona or L40 in front of me.

GreeBo

kceire wrote: »

Yes, if you pull up at a charger and theres a L40 and a Kona in front of you, you have a wait ahead of you.

Charges may stop the abuse of the network as people wont be hanging around for free electricity but at the moment I would hate to pull up at a Public charger and have a Kona or L40 in front of me.

I dont disagree that it can be an issue, but you can see what chargepoints are free before you get to them. If its a 7 hour journey I'll probably not plan it so that I'm stuck relying on a single charge point with no alternatives within range.

elperello

GreeBo wrote: »

This is the bit I dont get.
What bit doesn't work?

Unless you are doing huge (400KM+), daily distances or don't have access to a socket at either, home, office or destination then it works...right?

What percentage of drivers is that?

Just to state at the outset that I'm not anti electric just discussing.

Range anxiety of course is the main objection.
People are used to filling the tank and not having to think about it for 700-1000 km with diesels.
As you say there are those who don't have access to private parking to charge at home.
Then there are those who need a specific type of vehicle not currently available in electric.
Just to start the list - 7 Seater, Car with towing capacity, Wheelchair Accessible.
I don't know what percentage of the total that is but it's not a big number.

kceire

kceire wrote: »

Yes, if you pull up at a charger and theres a L40 and a Kona in front of you, you have a wait ahead of you.

Charges may stop the abuse of the network as people wont be hanging around for free electricity but at the moment I would hate to pull up at a Public charger and have a Kona or L40 in front of me.

Or 3 Konas in front of you !

Bringing in charges for charging won't solve the issue of queuing, it might relieve it a bit but people need to charge when away from home , people with less Kwh etc.

Need 6 x 150 kw chargers minimum per site.

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

So then he wouldn't buy a leaf. There are other EV manufacturers you know?

He could buy a Hyundai or Kia or several other cars.

151 miles or 243KM. Whats the issue again?

OK, so the chap is more or less retired.
He had a desire to buy a nice car €20k budget........Lexus IS300h tickled his fancy.......... there's no issue......... he didn't want a fooking EV and I'm struggling to thing what he'd get for €20k in EV land that's as nice as a 4 year old is300h tbh

It's a bollox to be honest. Irish Govt set the target of 10% EV by 2020. What is the % for 5000?

I expect in 2030 there will be 50,000 and queues at the chargers

dmcsweeney

Lumen wrote: »

Or maybe the EV battery will be dead and irreplacable. Who knows....

28% of cars manufactured in the US in 1900 were electric.....I'm really hoping that all manufacturers don't just concentrate on EVs. There must be combinations of different technologies that could deliver vehicles that suit everyone.

dmcsweeney

dmcsweeney wrote: »

28% of cars manufactured in the US in 1900 were electric.....I'm really hoping that all manufacturers don't just concentrate on EVs. There must be combinations of different technologies that could deliver vehicles that suit everyone.

Like what ?

Can't have hydrogen because it's insanely inefficient to produce and then enormous energy is needed to liquefy it to -270 odd degrees C. Then there is huge issues storing it and pumping it at the required high PSI to fill a car in less than 20 mins, Teslas 200 Kw chargers are up to that level today and others to follow, batteries are much more efficient.

However, for large commercial vehicles, trains, trucks, planes etc I can see where hydrogen just might actually work but it requires insane amounts of energy to produce.

Electric cars deliver much more power than what fuel cells can provide in the size of a passenger car and there are issues in very cold weather etc.

If they can reduce the size, make them efficient with the power output of EV then they might be acceptable, the fuel cell could work like the BMW i3 where the engine only comes on when needed but the car is always only 100% driven by the electric motor.

Hydrogen production will need lots of Nuclear power and in the future there'll be a major drive for Nuclear power again but this time using much safer modern reactors.

dmcsweeney

Deleted User wrote: »

Like what ?

Can't have hydrogen because it's insanely inefficient to produce and then enormous energy is needed to liquefy it to -270 odd degrees C. Then there is huge issues storing it and pumping it at the required high PSI to fill a car in less than 20 mins, Teslas 200 Kw chargers are up to that level today and others to follow, batteries are much more efficient.

However, for large commercial vehicles, trains, trucks, planes etc I can see where hydrogen just might actually work but it requires insane amounts of energy to produce.

Electric cars deliver much more power than what fuel cells can provide in the size of a passenger car and there are issues in very cold weather etc.

If they can reduce the size, make them efficient with the power output of EV then they might be acceptable, the fuel cell could work like the BMW i3 where the engine only comes on when needed but the car is always only 100% driven by the electric motor.

Hydrogen production will need lots of Nuclear power and in the future there'll be a major drive for Nuclear power again but this time using much safer modern reactors.

Who knows long term? Look how fast motoring has evolved in the last 10 - 20 years? Again the transition could be made easier by producing a hybrid that is truly efficient. Like it or not diesel technology is still moving forward. A plug in diesel hybrid with a decent EV only range would offer the best of both worlds. I'd love a hybrid, but not a petrol guzzler.

Johnboy1951

Deleted User wrote: »

Like what ?

Can't have hydrogen because it's insanely inefficient to produce and then enormous energy is needed to liquefy it to -270 odd degrees C. Then there is huge issues storing it and pumping it at the required high PSI to fill a car in less than 20 mins, Teslas 200 Kw chargers are up to that level today and others to follow, batteries are much more efficient.

Work is ongoing on a scheme to produce hydrogen 'on the fly' and store it at low pressure for use in vehicles.
I would not be betting on that specific technology, but one never knows what might appear in the next 10 years.

However, for large commercial vehicles, trains, trucks, planes etc I can see where hydrogen just might actually work but it requires insane amounts of energy to produce.

Electric cars deliver much more power than what fuel cells can provide in the size of a passenger car and there are issues in very cold weather etc.

If they can reduce the size, make them efficient with the power output of EV then they might be acceptable, the fuel cell could work like the BMW i3 where the engine only comes on when needed but the car is always only 100% driven by the electric motor.

Hydrogen production will need lots of Nuclear power and in the future there'll be a major drive for Nuclear power again but this time using much safer modern reactors.

dmcsweeney

dmcsweeney wrote: »

Who knows long term? Look how fast motoring has evolved in the last 10 - 20 years? Again the transition could be made easier by producing a hybrid that is truly efficient. Like it or not diesel technology is still moving forward. A plug in diesel hybrid with a decent EV only range would offer the best of both worlds. I'd love a hybrid, but not a petrol guzzler.

Unfortunately Peugeot tried Diesel Hybrids and failed, diesel hybrids don't work, at least not for cars. Diesels don't like to be ran for short periods and then have to turn off again and so on, they are too inefficient in this setup and also emit far more dangerous emissions.

Driving EV now 4.5 years I would not like to go back to any diesel, the odd time I drive the Mitsubishi outlander I Nearly go insane, waiting for power feels like it's got half the rated power, clutch, gears ir's a rather horrid experience to be honest.

The i3 is a great car, small engine that acts as a generator only which comes on from 75% charge at your choice or at 6.5% automatically. God good EV range.

Pity Nissan didn't do this at the start and sadly BMW dropped the Rex generator for the 44 Kwh, ridiculous.

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Work is ongoing on a scheme to produce hydrogen 'on the fly' and store it at low pressure for use in vehicles.
I would not be betting on that specific technology, but one never knows what might appear in the next 10 years.

Store at low pressure how does that work ? the whole thing about hydrogen is high pressure.

Whatever way it's produced means that's a lot more energy wasted than would go to charge batteries which are much more efficient.

CalamariFritti

Deleted User wrote: »

...Anthropocentric climate change is the greatest load of bullsh1t anyway but by all means change to eliminate actual pollution...

I've seen this being said many times usually by what I would call the notorious nay-sayers. The everyone is out to get us brigade.
And I will say that while the scientists across the world are very much united on the man-made climate-change, it is very difficult to provide hard evidence when talking about a system that is pretty much chaos to us still. Chaos as in we haven't fully grasped every single aspect of it.

But besides that - and let me repeat, the entire worldwide science brigade very much supports the notion of man made climate change - what evidence do you base your 'greatest load of bullsh1t' assessment on?

In any case. Climate change or not. Things will have to change. It doesn't take a scientist to see that we're raping this world and its flora and fauna.

CalamariFritti

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I've seen this being said many times usually by what I would call the notorious nay-sayers. The everyone is out to get us brigade.
And I will say that while the scientists across the world are very much united on the man-made climate-change, it is very difficult to provide hard evidence when talking about a system that is pretty much chaos to us still. Chaos as in we haven't fully grasped every single aspect of it.

But besides that - and let me repeat, the entire worldwide science brigade very much supports the notion of man made climate change - what evidence do you base your 'greatest load of bullsh1t' assessment on?

In any case. Climate change or not. Things will have to change. It doesn't take a scientist to see that we're raping this world and its flora and fauna.

Because most of them would be too afraid to disagree with it because they would be professionally ruined and publicly humiliated.

There's also the case of Climate Gate , none of them believe it themselves....

Also there is the Sun at play here, it's going through a natural quiet cycle that has happened numerous times and is linked to extreme weather events that have take place in the past.

We didn't melt the ice after the last ice age, that was some amazing Climate Change, Global warming or whatever you want to call it, we're still in a relatively warm cycle in Earths climate. Thankfully.

CalamariFritti

Deleted User wrote: »

Because most of them would be too afraid to disagree with it because they would be professionally ruined and publicly humiliated.

There's also the case of Climate Gate , none of them believe it themselves....

Also there is the Sun at play here, it's going through a natural quite cycle that has happened numerous times and is linked to extreme weather events that have take place in the past.

We didn't melt the ice after the last ice age, that was some amazing Climate Change, Global warming or whatever you want to call it, we're still in a relatively warm cycle in Earths climate. Thankfully.

Thats mad conspiracy stuff though. And you know it.

But besides that. We go through stuff at an insane rate. Wasting resources and producing rubbish in return at an ever increasing rate. Laying our lands and seas to waste driving all other species to extinction. Something's got to change or we will fvck up the very foundations of our existence. Any drive to sustainability has to be a good one.

Dartz

I'd say I'd get arrested for this sort of thing

On the other hand I sort of think that I'll be dead by the time it's an issue anyway.

elperello

Dartz wrote: »

I'd say I'd get arrested for this sort of thing

On the other hand I sort of think that I'll be dead by the time it's an issue anyway.

Definitely going to be unplugged.
Re-education for you

cnocbui

GreeBo wrote: »

This is the bit I dont get.
What bit doesn't work?

Unless you are doing huge (400KM+), daily distances or don't have access to a socket at either, home, office or destination then it works...right?

What percentage of drivers is that?

Having to pay for and install a domestic charger - if you have room

Having to use the domestic charger.

Having to 'think' about where you can charge the car if you go on a trip. Having to 'think' about pre warming it in winter.
Having to 'think' about potential range reduction in cold weather.

A lot of people don't see owning a car as a hobby activity to the point they gleefully research every aspect of it and what they need to do to not be let down by it.

I spend 5 minutes refueling my car, whenever it needs it - job done.

dmcsweeney

Oh the horror of it all. I think if they do ban ICE cars I'll retire to Cuba and smoke around in a 50s american classic with a diesel conversion. Or else build myself a Mad Max style car and roam the countryside looking for fuel and avoiding marauders in their Leafs : ).

Mooooo

Stoner wrote: »

I'm the same, my hybrid is a 141, it's the longest time I've ever had a car for but I'm waiting for the right EV

Just on this point, not aimed at the poster in general. Last new car we bought was 96, have had 3 cars since, current 07 Passat still going. All the talk of changing cars saving the environment won't do much until habits are changed 're cutting down on waste and consumerism which is unlikely given it's what keeps economies moving on, replacing a working phone a year old with a new model just because it's new etc. Could be argued if what was bought was kept until the end of its useful life it may be better in the long term including cars

Atoms for Peace

dmcsweeney wrote: »

Oh the horror of it all. I think if they do ban ICE cars I'll retire to Cuba and smoke around in a 50s american classic with a diesel conversion. Or else build myself a Mad Max style car and roam the countryside looking for fuel and avoiding marauders in their Leafs : ).

Last of the v8's....

V8 Interceptor

Deleted User wrote: »

Unfortunately Peugeot tried Diesel Hybrids and failed, diesel hybrids don't work, at least not for cars. Diesels don't like to be ran for short periods and then have to turn off again and so on, they are too inefficient in this setup and also emit far more dangerous emissions. Driving EV now 4.5 years I would not like to go back to any diesel, the odd time I drive the Mitsubishi outlander I Nearly go insane, waiting for power feels like it's got half the rated power, clutch, gears ir's a rather horrid experience to be honest. The i3 is a great car, small engine that acts as a generator only which comes on from 75% charge at your choice or at 6.5% automatically. God good EV range. Pity Nissan didn't do this at the start and sadly BMW dropped the Rex generator for the 44 Kwh, ridiculous.

I can't imagine driving an electric car. I will resist until the end.

V8 Interceptor

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Last of the v8's....

I've got it

tuxy

jon1981 wrote: »

given the price point and lack of options such as reasonably priced SUV and MPV.

There should be an exemption for SUV's And MPV's, there not enough of them on Irish roads.

dmcsweeney

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Last of the v8's....

I knew the 3 in the garage would come in handy one day!

elperello

tuxy wrote: »

There should be an exemption for SUV's And MPV's, there not enough of them on Irish roads.

There is definitely a case to be made for a "grandfather clause" type arrangement for some classes of car.

cournioni

GreeBo wrote: »

And if a meteor hits tomorrow it wont matter.

What are the chances that *every* diesel owner not only goes out and buys a new car tomorrow, but they choose to buy an EV?

Encouraging someone to buy a new diesel now means another diesel manufactured that will run for another 10 years and keep polluting for those 10 years.

Your car has a 12-1300 km range...do you often travel 12-1300km in a day?

You say it like EV’s don’t pollute on some level. :rolleyes:

V8 Interceptor

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

I can't imagine driving an electric car. I will resist until the end.

LOl your choice, I got no issue with that mate !

beauf

cournioni wrote: »

You say it like EV’s don’t pollute on some level. :rolleyes:

Where do you want the pollution. Sucked in via your car vents from the car in front or somewhere else.

GreeBo

cournioni wrote: »

You say it like EV’s don’t pollute on some level. :rolleyes:

I'm certain you are terribly worried about pollution.

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

I can't imagine driving an electric car. I will resist until the end.

Try it and come back to us otherwise you just sound ignorant and silly.

cnocbui wrote: »

Having to pay for and install a domestic charger - if you have room

Having to use the domestic charger.

Having to 'think' about where you can charge the car if you go on a trip. Having to 'think' about pre warming it in winter.
Having to 'think' about potential range reduction in cold weather.

A lot of people don't see owning a car as a hobby activity to the point they gleefully research every aspect of it and what they need to do to not be let down by it.

I spend 5 minutes refueling my car, whenever it needs it - job done.

You don't have to install a charger or use it.
You don't have to prewarm it... you can.

You dont need to research anything, the car tells you constantly where the available charging points are. The tesla plans your trip around it.

I spend 1 minute plugging the car in once a week and a minute plugging it out the following morning.


You clearly don't like EVs because the don't go vroom vroom and have probsbly never driven one. Be honest rather than come up with these lame, ignorant excuses.

cournioni

beauf wrote: »

Where do you want the pollution. Sucked in via your car vents from the car in front or somewhere else.

It will have a knock on effect no matter where it is.

Consumption is clearly the main issue due to the rapid growth in the earths population. But let’s all avoid that and pretend that EV’s are going to save the planet. :rolleyes: