Death knell for petrol and diesel cars?

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

Like the majority of your posts I have no idea what you mean by "a squirt of a Kona".........

He's saying he'd not spend €40k on a Kona..... or anywhere near it.

cournioni

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah, and what are those numbers?
19+% for the week and 25%+ so far this month and 31%+ for the year.

Remind me again how this helps your 10% argument?

What are those numbers? They're not consistent with yours by the look of things.

Also where did I say 10%? :rolleyes:

Wibbs

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm still not sure of what point you are trying to make in these editorials.

TBH in my occasional dealings with you I'm beginning to think you have a problem with anything beyond an extremely simplistic and scattergun approach to thinking. And I use the term loosely.

In the meantime, have an old read of http://oilcare.org.uk/what-we-do/impacts-of-oil/

And? You do understand that the vast majority of the parts of any car including EV's are made using, or made directly from petrochemicals? All you seem to see are the contents of the fuel tank and sump.

You seem to be stuck in the false mindset that we or I are advocating that everyone goes out an buys a new EV.
Can I ask where you got this idea from or was it just easier to make it up yourself and then argue against it?

Pot, may I introduce you to kettle? Debating with your kind of mindset is like herding cats; frustrating and unproductive, because they'll just meow and wander where they want to wander.

Mike9832

Augeo wrote: »

GreeBo wrote: »

Like the majority of your posts I have no idea what you mean by "a squirt of a Kona".........

He's saying he'd not spend €40k on a Kona..... or anywhere near it.

Scary thing is that €40,000 Kona has a €10,000 subsidy from the tax payers

It should be €50,000

Without that very generous subsidy EVs are dead in the water

Look at China

Really pro EV and now have toned subsidy down a bit and sales have collapsed

Guaranteed 90% of posters here would never have bought an EV without that crazy subsidy

I'll buy an EV

I am forced into one as petrol and diesel are taxed at 70%

In a free market with no government interference I would never consider one

As batteries are crap and expensive, batteries are so crap as energy source its laughable

Petrol is like 5000w/kg vs best EV batteries of 250w/kg

josip

cournioni wrote: »

Maybe you did. Attached are the current week and last 24 hour averages.

Cherry pick much ?

ELM327

I agree with thierry, if there was no 70% fuel tax I'd be in a v8 pickup doing 15mpg.
But we aren't in the US, we are in the banana republic!

GreeBo

cournioni wrote: »

What are those numbers? They're not consistent with yours by the look of things.

Also where did I say 10%? :rolleyes:

Those numbers are pretty much the same numbers that I provided, ~namely a third of power in Ireland has a renewable source....the reason for this is because I took the yearly numbers from ESB Networks rather than you taking the last 24 hours from Eirgrid.

My apologies, you said 15%, so you were only 2 times off, not the 3 times I accused you of.

GreeBo

Wibbs wrote: »

TBH in my occasional dealings with you I'm beginning to think you have a problem with anything beyond an extremely simplistic and scattergun approach to thinking. And I use the term loosely.

I'm beginning to think that you like to write prose and then pat yourself on the back for how awesome you are.

Wibbs wrote: »

And? You do understand that the vast majority of the parts of any car including EV's are made using, or made directly from petrochemicals? All you seem to see are the contents of the fuel tank and sump.

Yes I do.
So I'd rather that stops once the car is delivered rather than continues for the entire lifetime of the car. Super simple stuff.

Wibbs wrote: »

Pot, may I introduce you to kettle? Debating with your kind of mindset is like herding cats; frustrating and unproductive, because they'll just meow and wander where they want to wander.

I havent wavered from the start. If you are buying a new car, unless you are in the tiny 5%, a current EV will be perfect for you.

You then decided to go on a rant about pollution and plastics.
You are in the motors forum, perhaps you got lost?

creedp

GreeBo wrote: »

Like the majority of your posts I have no idea what you mean by "a squirt of a Kona".

You and others keep saying "many" yet dont put any numbers on it or facts to back it up other than personal anecdotes.

Is there any chance of a fact based discussion or is that only required for one side?

Sorry I'm not representing any organisation or any agenda

GreeBo

Mike9832 wrote: »

Scary thing is that €40,000 Kona has a €10,000 subsidy from the tax payers

It should be €50,000

Without that very generous subsidy EVs are dead in the water

Its under €35K in Germany *before* any subsidy. They are not dead at all.

Mike9832 wrote: »

Look at China

Really pro EV and now have toned subsidy down a bit and sales have collapsed

Guaranteed 90% of posters here would never have bought an EV without that crazy subsidy

They wouldnt be that price without the subsidy as no one would buy one so they wouldnt make them available over here.

Mike9832 wrote: »

I'll buy an EV

I am forced into one as petrol and diesel are taxed at 70%

In a free market with no government interference I would never consider one

Whats a free market with no government interference? You live in a country with a government thats part of the EU and has pollution requirements. Your view is a pipedream that will never happen.

Mike9832 wrote: »

As batteries are crap and expensive, batteries are so crap as energy source its laughable

Petrol is like 5000w/kg vs best EV batteries of 250w/kg

Batteries are an energy store not a source. But carry on ranting.

cournioni

josip wrote: »

Cherry pick much ?

Plenty of it going on on both sides of the argument.

The plenty of EV’s running on fossils today.

GreeBo

cournioni wrote: »

Plenty of it going on on both sides of the argument.
The plenty of EV’s running on fossils today.

Its right there in black and white in your own picture!

"The DAY view below shows the average fuel mix for the last 24 hours"

Please be better than this.:(

btw its on 4.4% now...weird, its almost like its going to keep going up until it gets ti the average. Mad Ted!

josip

cournioni wrote: »

Plenty of it going on on both sides of the argument.

The plenty of EV’s running on fossils today.

I give up, there's no point discussing with _ _ _ _ _ _

ELM327

The day view includes all of the night **where renewables are switched off due to low grid demand **

I have seen days/nights where we're exporting 100 Mw of wind energy.

They are times the mix is 75% wind but the last few nights haven't been very windy.

We need solar PV in the Mix but there are still no plans for solar PV farms, every roof In Ireland should have solar PV and electric cars can harness this energy too.

We need a FIT with guarantee income for 20+ years.

All future homes should have solar PV mandatory.

Ireland has plenty of light to generate solar pv in the brighter months , sell this excess and buy it back in the Winter to charge car, run heat pump etc.

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

Scary thing is that €40,000 Kona has a €10,000 subsidy from the tax payers

It should be €50,000

Without that very generous subsidy EVs are dead in the water

Look at China............

And in the ICE versions.......
Kona From € 21,495†
2019 Tucson From € 27,495†
All-New Santa Fe From €42,995†

.......... so the EV Kona is essentially double the purchase price of an ICE Kona.
It's like an EV fiesta or KA even for Mondeo Vignale money.

Looooooooooooooooooooney

Mr Velo

GreeBo wrote: »

HBC08 wrote: »

EVs do not suit the needs of all Irish motorists. I have a 20k commute to work and my partner a 40k commute.We live in a large provincial town with zero public transport available to us for work.We're perfect candidates to get a EV each right?
Wrong,we live in a town house with on street no designated parking.There are no options to charge at either of our work places.We travel long distances together and separately outside of work.Neither of us have any interest in paying 40k for any sort of car never mind any of the ugly overpriced EVs in Ireland.
As things stand i think youll find theres a lot more people than 5% who an EV will not be suitable for.

Your argument was going perfectly well and was rational and then the scooby doo mask came off towards the end.

And they'd have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you pesky Greebo

Mickeroo

cournioni wrote: »

Plenty of it going on on both sides of the argument.
<pic>
The plenty of EV’s running on fossils today.

60% of the time it works every time.

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

I have seen days/nights where we're exporting 100 Mw of wind energy.

They are times the mix is 75% wind but the last few nights haven't been very windy.

We need solar PV in the Mix but there are still no plans for solar PV farms, every roof In Ireland should have solar PV and electric cars can harness this energy too.

We need a FIT with guarantee income for 20+ years.

All future homes should have solar PV mandatory.

Ireland has plenty of light to generate solar pv in the brighter months , sell this excess and buy it back in the Winter to charge car, run heat pump etc.

Absolute bollo**s. Solar makes some sense in Australia, but not here. There is realistically no sunlight at the times of the year and day when you most need the energy. The break even period is far too long. As a whole, solar only makes long-term sense if you have cheap storage - which doesn't exist. Cheap and convenient power storage is the Achilles heel of renewables. It means you have to fork out for two sets of generation capacity - one that actually works and a more expensive one that makes some people feel good.

Nuclear is the obvious best option if you want long term low CO2 output energy generation at reasonable cost.

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

Its right there in black and white in your own picture!

"The DAY view below shows the average fuel mix for the last 24 hours"

Please be better than this.:(

btw its on 4.4% now...weird, its almost like its going to keep going up until it gets ti the average. Mad Ted!

5.6% now...

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

As batteries are crap and expensive, batteries are so crap as energy source its laughable

Petrol is like 5000w/kg vs best EV batteries of 250w/kg

Batteries are an energy store not a source. But carry on ranting.[/quote]

They become a source when they have to fuel an electric motor

It takes about 500kg of batteries to rival 25-30kg/lt of diesel

Thats laughable tbh

Scale that to hgv lol 😂

Mike9832

Batteries are an energy store not a source. But carry on ranting.

They become a source when they have to fuel an electric motor

It takes about 500kg of batteries to rival 25-30kg/lt of diesel

Thats laughable tbh

Scale that to hgv lol 😂[/quote]

GreeBo

Mike9832 wrote: »

They become a source when they have to fuel an electric motor

It takes about 500kg of batteries to rival 25-30kg/lt of diesel

Thats laughable tbh

Scale that to hgv lol &#55357;&#56834;

EV engines are 60-80 percent efficient. The efficiency of an internal combustion engine in converting the energy stored in gasoline to making the car move is typically 15 percent (EPA 2012).

GreeBo

cnocbui wrote: »

Absolute bollo**s.

Its all on the handy eirgrid site.
Plenty of times over the last month when wind energy was above 60%.

cnocbui

Mike9832 wrote: »

Scary thing is that €40,000 Kona has a €10,000 subsidy from the tax payers

It should be €50,000

Without that very generous subsidy EVs are dead in the water

Look at China

Really pro EV and now have toned subsidy down a bit and sales have collapsed

Guaranteed 90% of posters here would never have bought an EV without that crazy subsidy

I'll buy an EV

I am forced into one as petrol and diesel are taxed at 70%

In a free market with no government interference I would never consider one

As batteries are crap and expensive, batteries are so crap as energy source its laughable

Petrol is like 5000w/kg vs best EV batteries of 250w/kg

Tesla wouldn't have a hope of getting near being profitable if it weren't for significant subsidies. Not that they have ever had a profitable year or that there is much chance of one anytime soon.

The Irish government get at least 10% of all revenues from motoring. They are not going to be able to keep subsidising EV's for long before financial reality bites back. They are probably hoping the price of EV's falls a lot, and soon. I doubt that will happen.

EV battery tech isn't good enough. The stated capacity and range seems completely optimistic in view of the damage to batteries of running them flat or keeping them topped up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VLl_r6B1JY

Mike9832

GreeBo wrote: »

Mike9832 wrote: »

They become a source when they have to fuel an electric motor

It takes about 500kg of batteries to rival 25-30kg/lt of diesel

Thats laughable tbh

Scale that to hgv lol ��

EV engines are 60-80 percent efficient. The efficiency of an internal combustion engine in converting the energy stored in gasoline to making the car move is typically 15 percent (EPA 2012).

Toyota hybrid are more like 40

ELM327

Mike9832 wrote: »

Toyota hybrid are more like 40

Only the 2019MY ones, the older ones are closer to 30 - eg my 2008 mk2 prius.

cnocbui

GreeBo wrote: »

Its all on the handy eirgrid site.
Plenty of times over the last month when wind energy was above 60%.

Your intellectual dishonesty is profound. There are also plenty of times when it's next to nothing, like right now:



Without a decent, reliable, fossil fuel based power generation, we would be absolutely borked.

GreeBo

cnocbui wrote: »

Tesla wouldn't have a hope of getting near being profitable if it weren't for significant subsidies. Not that they have ever had a profitable year or that there is much chance of one anytime soon.

The Irish government get at least 10% of all revenues from motoring. They are not going to be able to keep subsidising EV's for long before financial reality bites back. They are probably hoping the price of EV's falls a lot, and soon. I doubt that will happen.

EV battery tech isn't good enough. The stated capacity and range seems completely optimistic in view of the damage to batteries of running them flat or keeping them topped up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VLl_r6B1JY

I posted this already but I will do it again if you keep bringing up EV subsidies in isolation.

"The Irish Government spends a total of €4.1bn on environmentally damaging subsidies and taxes forgone each year according to a new analysis published by the Central Statistics Office."

whatsapp has never made a profit and dont look like it anytime soon either.

*you* think EV battery tech isnt good enough...even if that were true, battery tech is only going one way.

BTW you want to keep your battery 20-80% for longevity.

GreeBo

cnocbui wrote: »

Your intellectual dishonesty is profound. There are also plenty of times when it's next to nothing, like right now:

Without a decent, reliable, fossil fuel based power generation, we would be absolutely borked.

I never said it was always that.
You said it was "absolute bollox" that wind can make up 70% of the supply, I showed that its not.

We would be "borked" if we turned off the fossil fuels and did nothing else. I dont think anyone is proposing we do that?


5.7% now btw.

GreeBo

Mike9832 wrote: »

Toyota hybrid are more like 40

Yep, and what is it that is responsible for the increase?
An electric engine and a battery.

orangerhyme

I think we'll know better by the end of 2020 when most of the big car manufacturers have released
at least one BEV.
But really we're only at 2nd gen EVs by then.
I think it'll be 3rd gen around 2025 that'll be the game changer. Based on projections, EVs will be same price or cheaper upfront than ICEs.
It's still a new technology really

Does anyone know how to calculate how many EVs it would be necessary to provide enough grid storage at peak usage?

How many 60kwh or 100kwh (to make it easier) fully charged EVs could power the grid at peak usage let's say for example?

With the unrealistic assumptions that there's no other power generation, every car is parked up at home with vehicle to grid technology and battery is fully charged.

cnocbui

GreeBo wrote: »

I never said it was always that.
You said it was "absolute bollox" that wind can make up 70% of the supply, I showed that its not.

We would be "borked" if we turned off the fossil fuels and did nothing else. I dont think anyone is proposing we do that?


5.7% now btw.

You might want to go back and re-read what I wrote. For anyone not on a green hair-trigger it should be obvious I was addressing the issue of advocating solar as a viable energy source for this country.

When I was living in Australia, we were in the forefront of 'green', getting an early model solar hot water heater in the 70's. It never paid for itself. The one that replaced it might have, but the two combined probably didn't.

Shefwedfan

cnocbui wrote: »

Absolute bollo**s. Solar makes some sense in Australia, but not here. There is realistically no sunlight at the times of the year and day when you most need the energy. The break even period is far too long. As a whole, solar only makes long-term sense if you have cheap storage - which doesn't exist. Cheap and convenient power storage is the Achilles heel of renewables. It means you have to fork out for two sets of generation capacity - one that actually works and a more expensive one that makes some people feel good.

Nuclear is the obvious best option if you want long term low CO2 output energy generation at reasonable cost.

Do you realize solar will work even on a cloudy day? it is not optimal but it will produce electricity.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

Absolute bollo**s. Solar makes some sense in Australia, but not here. There is realistically no sunlight at the times of the year and day when you most need the energy. The break even period is far too long. As a whole, solar only makes long-term sense if you have cheap storage - which doesn't exist. Cheap and convenient power storage is the Achilles heel of renewables. It means you have to fork out for two sets of generation capacity - one that actually works and a more expensive one that makes some people feel good.

Nuclear is the obvious best option if you want long term low CO2 output energy generation at reasonable cost.

No it's absolutely not bollocks, look up all the online calculators you want, based on the average yearly solar radiation per M2 or whatever way they calculate it, Ireland can produce quite a lot of Solar PV Kwh per year.

The real issue is the variation in Summer V Winter daylight hours, Winter obviously producing much less than the brighter months and Summer produces on average less wind energy so from a commercial point of view solar PV farms should also be installed.

However, the other real issue is that we do not get a feed-in-tariff to export all this excess in the brighter months , the idea is you send all the excess to the grid and get paid and then buy it back in Winter to run storage heaters, heat pumps or whatever you want.

Ideally for Ireland for domestic situations is a small wind turbine and a small solar PV array. But solar PV is much cheaper than wind turbine installations.

Shefwedfan

cnocbui wrote: »

You might want to go back and re-read what I wrote. For anyone not on a green hair-trigger it should be obvious I was addressing the issue of advocating solar as a viable energy source for this country.

When I was living in Australia, we were in the forefront of 'green', getting an early model solar hot water heater in the 70's. It never paid for itself. The one that replaced it might have, but the two combined probably didn't.

Are you comparing solar in the 70's to the solar panels deployed today?



I am not sure what your point is?

Solar thermal and solar PV work in Ireland, loads of test cases and references. They are buying up 100's of acre of land in Meath to install huge solar farms, do you really think they would do that if they didnt work?

cnocbui

GreeBo wrote: »

...

*you* think EV battery tech isnt good enough...even if that were true, battery tech is only going one way.

BTW you want to keep your battery 20-80% for longevity.

Thanks for playing. That's it exactly, the battery tech is so fragile that the stated range is unsustainable without severely compromising longevity.

I drive a petrol Honda. The fuel tank holds as much as it did when the car rolled off the production line 14 years ago, so it's range is the same as when it was new.

I doubt there is any Li-ion based EV that would still be usable on the original battery in 14 years time.

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Are you comparing solar in the 70's to the solar panels deployed today?



I am not sure what your point is?

Solar thermal and solar PV work in Ireland, loads of test cases and references. They are buying up 100's of acre of land in Meath to install huge solar farms, do you really think they would do that if they didnt work?

Are they ? news to me, didn't think there were plans for commercial PV in Ireland.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

Thanks for playing. That's it exactly, the battery tech is so fragile that the stated range is unsustainable without severely compromising longevity.

I drive a petrol Honda. The fuel tank holds as much as it did when the car rolled off the production line 14 years ago, so it's range is the same as when it was new.

I doubt there is any Li-ion based EV that would still be usable on the original battery in 14 years time.

hmmmm, BMW's 94 Ah battery specs are quite good and suggest a 500,000 + km life before the battery looses 20% !

Yeah batteries are crap ! :rolleyes:

As batteries get larger in Kwh there'll be far less cycling and they will last much longer.

The BMW i3, Kona EV 64 Kwh battery etc will probably last the life of the car.

orangerhyme

orangerhyme wrote: »

I think we'll know better by the end of 2020 when most of the big car manufacturers have released
at least one BEV.
But really we're only at 2nd gen EVs by then.
I think it'll be 3rd gen around 2025 that'll be the game changer. Based on projections, EVs will be same price or cheaper upfront than ICEs.
It's still a new technology really

Does anyone know how to calculate how many EVs it would be necessary to provide enough grid storage at peak usage?

How many 60kwh or 100kwh (to make it easier) fully charged EVs could power the grid at peak usage let's say for example?

With the unrealistic assumptions that there's no other power generation, every car is parked up at home with vehicle to grid technology and battery is fully charged.

You can take any other assumptions I'm forgetting about also, just looking for a back of the envelope type calculation.

Would a million 100kwh EVs provide enough electricity at peak times for example?

GreeBo

cnocbui wrote: »

Thanks for playing. That's it exactly, the battery tech is so fragile that the stated range is unsustainable without severely compromising longevity.

Yes its deathly fragile :rolleyes:

cnocbui wrote: »

I drive a petrol Honda. The fuel tank holds as much as it did when the car rolled off the production line 14 years ago, so it's range is the same as when it was new.

And its polluting just as much now as it was then...though probably more.

cnocbui wrote: »

I doubt there is any Li-ion based EV that would still be usable on the original battery in 14 years time.

Thats certainly a possibility. But how much have you saved over those 14 years? Probably enough to buy several refurb or new batteries.

And you have significantly reduced your damage to the planet.

josip

cnocbui wrote: »

You might want to go back and re-read what I wrote. For anyone not on a green hair-trigger it should be obvious I was addressing the issue of advocating solar as a viable energy source for this country.

When I was living in Australia, we were in the forefront of 'green', getting an early model solar hot water heater in the 70's. It never paid for itself. The one that replaced it might have, but the two combined probably didn't.

As my granny used to say to me, "be not the first by whom the new is tried, nor yet the last to lay the old aside".
I used to think she was very wise until years later I realised she blatantly plagiarized it from Alexander Pope.

Shefwedfan

cnocbui wrote: »

Thanks for playing. That's it exactly, the battery tech is so fragile that the stated range is unsustainable without severely compromising longevity.

I drive a petrol Honda. The fuel tank holds as much as it did when the car rolled off the production line 14 years ago, so it's range is the same as when it was new.

I doubt there is any Li-ion based EV that would still be usable on the original battery in 14 years time.

As soon as a car rolls off the production line is starts to slowly lose little horses to horsey heaven!!



Just because you have a full tank of petrol doesn't mean your car is not severly depleted since it left the factory.



Depending on the mileage like any car of course electric will last 14 years.



Some of the early RAV4 BEV are still on the road.


A huge industry is now converting old combustion engine cars to electric, Irish company doing it.

GreeBo

orangerhyme wrote: »

I think we'll know better by the end of 2020 when most of the big car manufacturers have released
at least one BEV.
But really we're only at 2nd gen EVs by then.
I think it'll be 3rd gen around 2025 that'll be the game changer. Based on projections, EVs will be same price or cheaper upfront than ICEs.
It's still a new technology really

Does anyone know how to calculate how many EVs it would be necessary to provide enough grid storage at peak usage?

How many 60kwh or 100kwh (to make it easier) fully charged EVs could power the grid at peak usage let's say for example?

With the unrealistic assumptions that there's no other power generation, every car is parked up at home with vehicle to grid technology and battery is fully charged.

Is that not a pointless exercise though?
How/when/where do the get the stored power back when they need it?
i'm hardly likely to allow them to drain my battery overnght?

orangerhyme

GreeBo wrote: »

Is that not a pointless exercise though?
How/when/where do the get the stored power back when they need it?
i'm hardly likely to allow them to drain my battery overnght?

I know it's completely unrealistic but just curious really.
I think the a zero carbon future might necessitate a distributed smart grid with EVs and batteries in homes and other buildings to store energy for peak times.
I'm just trying to get my head around how likely that is.

dmcsweeney

orangerhyme wrote: »

You can take any other assumptions I'm forgetting about also, just looking for a back of the envelope type calculation.

Would a million 100kwh EVs provide enough electricity at peak times for example?

It's a hard one to call but lets take a stab and say that there is 10% of availability, at a maximum of 6.5KVA per unit for short durations giving 100,000*6.5KVA = 650MVA. I don't see it at present as a method of supplying the grid, but what it may be useful for is stabilisation, the same as a BESS. So you'd be taking 5sec to 30mins to compensate for undervoltages and frequency fluctuations. The BESS setups I've seen to date are in the 20-30MVA range so it may be of use for that.

orangerhyme

dmcsweeney wrote: »

It's a hard one to call but lets take a stab and say that there is 10% of availability, at a maximum of 6.5KVA per unit for short durations giving 100,000*6.5KVA = 650MVA. I don't see it at present as a method of supplying the grid, but what it may be useful for is stabilisation, the same as a BESS. So you'd be taking 5sec to 30mins to compensate for undervoltages and frequency fluctuations. The BESS setups I've seen to date are in the 20-30MVA range so it may be of use for that.

That's too technical for me to understand.
Why don't you see a large EV fleet as a method to supply the grid?
Is it to do with voltage or something?
As you can gather, I know nothing about electricity.
I guess at the very least if most people are arriving home at peak times with a charged car and power their home with Vehicle to grid technology, it would smooth out the peak a lot.

GreeBo

orangerhyme wrote: »

That's too technical for me to understand.
Why don't you see a large EV fleet as a method to supply the grid?
Is it to do with voltage or something?
As you can gather, I know nothing about electricity.
I guess at the very least if most people are arriving home at peak times with a charged car and plug it in with Vehicle to grid technology, it would smooth out the peak a lot.

But then those EVs have no power the next morning when its needed?

Its either Tesla style home batteries or ESB supplied massive storage or interconnectors so that power is shared by everyone (its windy and sunny somewhere)

dmcsweeney

orangerhyme wrote: »

That's too technical for me to understand.
Why don't you see a large EV fleet as a method to supply the grid?
Is it to do with voltage or something?
As you can gather, I know nothing about electricity.
I guess at the very least if most people are arriving home at peak times with a charged car and power their home with Vehicle to grid technology, it would smooth out the peak a lot.

I guess a number of problems here. One being availability of cars on the grid with sufficient charge, especially when you consider not everyone will have a home charger. Then what the capacity of those chargers is, then do they really want the responsibility of using a consumers infrastructure to extract electricity? Do you want to try pulling a load through an installation of questionable age and quality? Also they would have to come up with a supply agreement for every customer. It's a mine field to be honest, and I'm only thinking about it very quickly here.

orangerhyme

dmcsweeney wrote: »

I guess a number of problems here. One being availability of cars on the grid with sufficient charge, especially when you consider not everyone will have a home charger. Then what the capacity of those chargers is, then do they really want the responsibility of using a consumers infrastructure to extract electricity? Do you want to try pulling a load through an installation of questionable age and quality? Also they would have to come up with a supply agreement for every customer. It's a mine field to be honest, and I'm only thinking about it very quickly here.

Ok, but ignoring all your much appreciated intelligent well informed points here. I mean that in the most polite way possible.

What's the formula for calculating it?

X = EV with 100kwh battery
Y = peak usage in Ireland