Housing crisis- the elephant in the room

Cordell

There may be, and it's very likely there are, some Irish people that will wait in line because some immigrants were in front of them - this can happen for welfare, housing, doctor visits, schools, and so on. How serious it it we don't know as no one seems willing to openly discuss it. Is the immigration straining the healthcare? We don't know. Is it straining the education system? We don't know.
When we get to a full waiting room and half of it don't speak English then we may give out (inside of course) about the fking foreigners. But maybe that room was full Irish yesterday, but we don't know because we don't openly discuss this.
That's the problem.

rosmoke

Let me give a few examples.
When you go to McDonald's what do you think is the ratio of non nationals there?
Or in Musgrave's warehouse down in Kilcock, youse have any idea how many are foreigners? I think over 85% and it's a big warehouse, quite a few people working there.
So why aren't Irish taking those low paid jobs? I suspect it's because they are better off on social and I can't blame them, it's unfair that someone on housing list gets a brand new 300k house and others on middle wage can't even dream of it.

I've also been working for a smallish 180 employees Irish tech company where ~40% were foreigners, same with another Fintech I've had the pleasure to work with.
Foreigners pay taxes and contribute to the economy.
I suspect there is only a small proportion of immigrants that are abusing the system and does it really matter their race, nationality, religion?
Is it fair to discriminate people based on their place of birth (nationality)?
This is a bigger problem and borders or bridges are not a solution on the long term.

Boxing.Fan

Cordell wrote: »

You are right, not everyone from Romania is gypsy (like if that even needs to be said), but these ones are. But what they are does not matter, they should not be provided by the state with anything but a plane ticket back to Romania.

I work in Dublin Airport and there is an endless flow of gypsys coming back and forward from Bulgaria. Same faces every couple of weeks. How that can be allowed I do not now. Coming here to beg and commit crime nothing more.

rosmoke

My solution for housing is to stimulate the growth of rental properties, at the moment landlords are discouraged from renting their place as it is very difficult to kick out troublesome tenants or recover months of unpaid rent.
It's a service landlords provide, tenants either pay or not and get out, should be really easy.
I'm a tenant and I want better laws for landlords, the irony ...

beejee

rosmoke wrote: »

Let me give a few examples.
When you go to McDonald's what do you think is the ratio of non nationals there?
Or in Musgrave's warehouse down in Kilcock, youse have any idea how many are foreigners? I think over 85% and it's a big warehouse, quite a few people working there.
So why aren't Irish taking those low paid jobs? I suspect it's because they are better off on social and I can't blame them, it's unfair that someone on housing list gets a brand new 300k house and others on middle wage can't even dream of it.

I've also been working for a smallish 180 employees Irish tech company where ~40% were foreigners, same with another Fintech I've had the pleasure to work with.
Foreigners pay taxes and contribute to the economy.
I suspect there is only a small proportion of immigrants that are abusing the system and does it really matter their race, nationality, religion?
Is it fair to discriminate people based on their place of birth (nationality)?
This is a bigger problem and borders or bridges are not a solution on the long term.

Yes it is, 100%.

That this concept has gained the traction it has...just bonkers. The power of propaganda in full effect.

Imagine someone managing to convince you that anyone can come and live in your house. That everyone has a right to live in your house. Imagine falling for that lunacy.

If anyone can come and live in your home, then you don't actually have a home. If anyone can come and live in your country, then you don't have a country.

The majority of major issues in the world can be solved with a healthy dose of reality. The internet has allowed and encouraged a fictional make-believe world, and it needs to be stopped immediately, and then reversed asap.

rosmoke

That's not the same thing in my opinion.
Ireland it's not yours, it's just a location where you happened to be born or stayed 5+ years as EU national.
You pay for your house, it's yours .. you own it. You don't own the island even if you pay taxes, what you have is the democratic right to vote.
It's the same in other countries as well.

Cordell

The Irish citizens collectively own Ireland.

beejee

rosmoke wrote: »

That's not the same thing in my opinion.
Ireland it's not yours, it's just a location where you happened to be born or stayed 5+ years as EU national.
You pay for your house, it's yours .. you own it. You don't own the island even if you pay taxes.

Yeah, sure thing.

My country is not my country. Okay. Its all just a free-for-all grab for whoever can get in the door and take it.

You must realise that you've lost your mind, because im telling you now, if that's your mindset on the most basic of fundamentals, you'll be ridden to hell and back.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cordell wrote: »

The Irish citizens collectively own Ireland.

Does that include foreigners who now hold Irish citizenship?

rosmoke

Cordell

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Does that include foreigners who now hold Irish citizenship?

Yes. Their citizenship was given to them by the representatives of the Irish citizens, mandated by them and acting in their best interests, or so the story goes

vriesmays

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Poles are as tight as tuppence

Who can anytime return to their own country which is over 95% native unlike progressive Ireland.

InTheShadows

rosmoke wrote: »

Let me give a few examples.
When you go to McDonald's what do you think is the ratio of non nationals there?
Or in Musgrave's warehouse down in Kilcock, youse have any idea how many are foreigners? I think over 85% and it's a big warehouse, quite a few people working there.
So why aren't Irish taking those low paid jobs? I suspect it's because they are better off on social and I can't blame them, it's unfair that someone on housing list gets a brand new 300k house and others on middle wage can't even dream of it.

I've also been working for a smallish 180 employees Irish tech company where ~40% were foreigners, same with another Fintech I've had the pleasure to work with.
Foreigners pay taxes and contribute to the economy.
I suspect there is only a small proportion of immigrants that are abusing the system and does it really matter their race, nationality, religion?
Is it fair to discriminate people based on their place of birth (nationality)?
This is a bigger problem and borders or bridges are not a solution on the long term.

A typical employer will hire a eastern european/non irish on 11 euro an hour or whatever the minimum wage is rather than an Irish person as the eastern european/non Irish is much more likely to except the crap terms and conditions and wages than an Irish person.

As an example a logistics company which will go unnamed i know of years back decided to stop hiring Irish people because they are more likely to demand sick pay or being paid overtime. They have hired only Romanians for the last years and treat them like absolute s h it.

It's a race to the bottom and it will eventually lead to a Trump type politician being elected here or a Brexit style scenario. This im as sure of as night follows day.

Also a big problem now for employers and IBEC is Eastern Europeans are wising up to being treated like this and organizing so they are looking to the open borders BS to get cheap labour in from Africa or the Middle East

Boxing.Fan

Cordell wrote: »

Yes. Their citizenship was given to them by the representatives of the Irish citizens, mandated by them and acting in their best interests, or so the story goes

That's not the answer he was looking for.

rosmoke

beejee wrote: »

Yeah, sure thing.

My country is not my country. Okay. Its all just a free-for-all grab for whoever can get in the door and take it.

You must realise that you've lost your mind, because im telling you now, if that's your mindset on the most basic of fundamentals, you'll be ridden to hell and back.

No beejee, it's not a matter of anyone can take it.
It's a bit unfair to complain of others that come and 'take over this country' when Spain, Canada, US are full of Irish immigrants.
This goes both ways you know? Haven't we learned anything from history?

Let's make a better place for all of us, not f**k the rest and imagine we're gonna be sitting on gold.

This is actually something I appreciate Irish people for, their mindset, how they are open to multiculturalism.

beejee

Cordell wrote: »

The Irish citizens collectively own Ireland.

Where do you draw a line on "citizen"? A very difficult question.

If you start at the extreme end of things, does a German who got handed a piece of paper today suddenly have some rightful claim to the country? Is it instantaneous?

Theres some barking mad notions running wild at the moment, but it basically comes down to this; "I want you to share what you own because its valuable, give it to me or youre a bad person" versus "I want to keep what I own because I realise its value, hands off."

That this kind of conversation is only happening in countries of intrinsic value that have significant jumps in immigration is no mere coincidence. They want their friends along for a piece of the action too. More gives rise to more gives rise to more demands.

Its not complicated, and its impact on housing in this particular instance is like predicting it might rain sometime in Ireland this year.

InTheShadows

rosmoke wrote: »

Far out dude.

Boxing.Fan

InTheShadows wrote: »

Far out dude.

Pass the joint, man.

rosmoke

sharing is caring

Hector Savage

rosmoke wrote: »

Such utter and absolute crap, in an ideal Gene Roddenberry-esque Star Trek universe it's a beautiful idea, but the reality is very very different.

It's like that Irish/Mexican American lad that is running for president, he actually wants to demolish the border wall in El Paso.

El Paso borders Juarez, one of Mexicos most dangerous cities, does he have any f*cking idea what would happen if that border wall was taken down ?

DEFTLEFTHAND

rosmoke wrote: »

sharing is caring

Not to the point that people start taking advantage of you.

beejee

rosmoke wrote: »

No beejee, it's not a matter of anyone can take it.
It's a bit unfair to complain of others that come and 'take over this country' when Spain, Canada, US are full of Irish immigrants.
This goes both ways you know? Haven't we learned anything from history?

Let's make a better place for all of us, not f**k the rest and imagine we're gonna be sitting on gold.

This is actually something I appreciate Irish people for, their mindset, how they are open to multiculturalism.

If other countries want to allow irish people to enter, that's up to the people of that country to decide. Not our problem. You may find it a spectacularly small group of countries that engage with your world view, by the by.

Trying to pass it off as some kind of beholden noose around our necks is ludicrous.

And comparing the world over hundreds of years to what has and is happening in the last 15 odd years is also ludicrous. There is practically nothing in common between the past and contemporary migration, anywhere.

"Multiculturalism" amounts to nothing positive beyond ethereal, infantile ideology. Actual multiculturalism is simply vast swathes of people moving in one direction to set up shop for their own betterment.

Good for them. Its not in my interests though, is it?

Some indian guy serves me in a shop? So what? Is it exposing me to new ideas and concepts I couldn't possibly have imagined otherwise? Of course not, its a load of trollocks. Two French guys are living in an apartment down the road? And...so what?

Youre welcome to your ideas of Ireland being a non-country that's open to whoever for their own wants. But you'll find little company in real life outside of self-created bubbles.

As for "unfairness"...if some guy earned half as much money as you, would you split your wages with him for the sake of fairness? You would alright!

rosmoke

As for "unfairness"...if some guy earned half as much money as you, would you split your wages with him for the sake of fairness? You would alright!

So you don't believe in marriage, equality, etc? :pac:

InTheShadows

Hector Savage wrote: »

Such utter and absolute crap, in an ideal Gene Roddenberry-esque Star Trek universe it's a beautiful idea, but the reality is very very different.

It's like that Irish/Mexican American lad that is running for president, he actually wants to demolish the border wall in El Paso.

El Paso borders Juarez, one of Mexicos most dangerous cities, does he have any f*cking idea what would happen if that border wall was taken down ?

The same people who post this "one world" tripe have absolutely no idea the sh1tstorm that would ensue if borders didn't exist. Borders keep us safe, borders make us stronger, borders keep disease at bay, borders mean we live very comfortable lives compared to others. If there where no borders Dublin would resemble a New Delhi slum in 10 years time.

rosmoke

InTheShadows wrote: »

The same people who post this "one world" tripe have absolutely no idea the sh1tstorm that would ensue if borders didn't exist. Borders keep us safe, borders make us stronger, borders keep disease at bay, borders mean we live very comfortable lives compared to others. If there where no borders Dublin would resemble a New Delhi slum in 10 years time.

Great famine.

beejee

rosmoke wrote: »

So you don't believe in marriage, equality, etc? :pac:

Listen, theres this thing called reality. Its not nice. But its not going to go away because you don't like it.

We are, as a country, in the top percentage of the world in nearly ever positive regard.

The idea that we "share" what we have ad infinitum will not make one jot of difference to the overall scheme of things besides one, very important, very tangible result...it will drastically lower our quality of life.

If you have a bucket of red paint (the majority of the world), and you put a drop of blue paint (us) into the mix, sharing it around.....what colour will the bucket of paint become?

We don't live in an infinite world. Just like the chemical and physical laws of existence, you either "have it", "have less of it", and concomitantly "they don't have it" or "they have more of it"

Its not nice. But again, that's reality, and unless a person is a complete nincompoop they try to improve their life, not lessen it for the sake of exchange for no impact anyway.

So you have 20 grand in the bank. Another person has nothing. You split the difference and now you each have 10 grand. You have halved your money (a significant impact on quality of life), while the other person has significantly improved their own life. Great.

The problem is that, being in the top percentage of the world, that it isn't just one person you have to split it with, its more like 100. So what are you going to do? Youre not going to make much, if any, impact on their lives, but you will impoverish yourself. Not a great idea, right?

It doesn't get any simpler.

rosmoke

@beejee

That's the thing beejee, we have different opinions.
I live not necessarily to make a difference, but to help others and not only myself, my family or my neighbours.
We obviously don't feel the same and that's alright, everyone's different.

vriesmays

InTheShadows wrote: »

If there where no borders Dublin would resemble a New Delhi slum in 10 years time.

Longford will.

beejee

rosmoke wrote: »

@beejee

That's the thing beejee, we have different opinions.
I live not necessarily to make a difference, but to help others and not only myself, my family or my neighbours.
We obviously don't feel the same.

Reality is not an opinion. If theres one straight-up accusation that can be levelled at the internet in general, it is that facts have become opinions that you can pick and choose. Gravity? Nah, don't think so, theres this group of people that also don't think so...therefore gravity is an opinion.

We're talking country and world-scale here, not helping a neighbour out the odd time.

The incontrovertible fact of the matter, to bring the topic back on point, is that migration has a negative impact on housing. Any other "opinions" or cock-a-maney biased reports are flat-earth territory.

_Brian

Literally tens of thousands of Irish went to America on holiday visas, have overstayed and continued to work there illegally occupying jobs that I presume Americans could have and living on houses that Americans could Live in. Sending money home tomtheir families in Ireland from the American economy

Yet when people come to Ireland to start a better life for themselves Irish people have a problem.

May as well say it folks, most people have a problem because of their skin colour and they don’t have the same religion.

Boxing.Fan

_Brian wrote: »

Literally tens of thousands of Irish went to America on holiday visas, have overstayed and continued to work there illegally occupying jobs that I presume Americans could have and living on houses that Americans could Live in. Sending money home tomtheir families in Ireland from the American economy

Yet when people come to Ireland to start a better life for themselves Irish people have a problem.

May as well say it folks, most people have a problem because of their skin colour and they don’t have the same religion.

That tired old argument. Any illegal Irish in America should be deported. I've absolutely no problem with that.

InTheShadows

_Brian wrote: »

Literally tens of thousands of Irish went to America on holiday visas, have overstayed and continued to work there illegally occupying jobs that I presume Americans could have and living on houses that Americans could Live in. Sending money home tomtheir families in Ireland from the American economy

Yet when people come to Ireland to start a better life for themselves Irish people have a problem.

May as well say it folks, most people have a problem because of their skin colour and they don’t have the same religion.

Those illegal Irish should be/should have been deported or jailed. Anything else?

InTheShadows

rosmoke wrote: »

Great famine.

No idea what that means in relation to this thread/

beejee

_Brian wrote: »

Literally tens of thousands of Irish went to America on holiday visas, have overstayed and continued to work there illegally occupying jobs that I presume Americans could have and living on houses that Americans could Live in. Sending money home tomtheir families in Ireland from the American economy

Yet when people come to Ireland to start a better life for themselves Irish people have a problem.

May as well say it folks, most people have a problem because of their skin colour and they don’t have the same religion.

Youre trying to turn reality into "racism", which is sneaky. Its also transparent.

You are purposefully conflating "irish people who take advantage of other countries" with "irish people who don't".

That's Americas problem, and the problem of irish people who go there illegally. Ireland is our problem, and to try to hamfist this as some stupid equivalence of "owing" some randomer (regardless of origin or colour) just because someone else did something one time....nah.

"This irish guy took advantage of someone else, so it would be pure racist to not allow a non-irish person take advantage of an irish guy"

Where are you living in your head, the planet mars? :P

Cordell

_Brian wrote: »

May as well say it folks, most people have a problem because of their skin colour and they don’t have the same religion.

The vast majority of the immigrants have the same skin color and the same religion, but it's easier to just call people racist than to actually engage them in a meaningful way.

rosmoke

@beejee
I had my own company in Bucharest and I was doing alright, I came here a couple of years ago, worked 3 years in mcdonald's and warehouse then completed a 4 year degree while also working for multinationals in IT.
Now I'm also Irish and already paying 40% taxes, in your view I shouldn't have come.
Have we forgot already about Margaret Cash?

enricoh

_Brian wrote: »

Literally tens of thousands of Irish went to America on holiday visas, have overstayed and continued to work there illegally occupying jobs that I presume Americans could have and living on houses that Americans could Live in. Sending money home tomtheir families in Ireland from the American economy

Yet when people come to Ireland to start a better life for themselves Irish people have a problem.

May as well say it folks, most people have a problem because of their skin colour and they don’t have the same religion.

33% on the homeless list in dublin are foreign, have you any problem with that percentage or is it racist to even question it?
add in the bogus asylum seekers given leave to remain n full welfare entitlements and god only knows what it costs the taxpayer.

beejee

rosmoke wrote: »

@beejee
I had my own company in Bucharest and I was doing alright, I came here a couple of years ago, worked 3 years in mcdonald's and warehouse then completed a 4 year degree while also working for multinationals in IT.
Now I'm also Irish and already paying 40% taxes, in your view I shouldn't have come.
Have we forgot already about Margaret Cash?

You came here because it was an improvement for your life. Otherwise you wouldn't have come here.

That is completely different to trying to convince irish people that migration is a good idea for irish people.

Also, showing that some irish person is a bad person has nothing to do with you being here either, good or bad.

I think a lot of people need to realise that theyre talking a lot of ****e, when in the end all they are really saying is "this is good for ME"

Fine. No problem with that. I can accept that Im arguing for my own good and the good of my country. You should accept that you are here for no other primary reason other than yourself. Its demonstratively true.

Just don't talk bullshyt about how you (or anyone) is some godsend to the country and portray it as if youre doing us a favour. If you are or aren't is simply consequential of looking out for yourself first and foremost.

That being the case, listening to someone who has come here for their own interests try to make a case for other people coming here for their own interests....is kinda invalid. Of course you would!

Would you seek unbiased advice from a biased source? I wouldn't!

rosmoke

You're making way too many assumptions just to support your belief.
I was actually worse off financially in Dublin than I was in Bucharest when I made the move and my wife wanted to go back every day for a year.
From a business owner to washing toilets in mcdonald's that's a hell of an improvement.

Interesting how everyone forgot about Great Famine now and we're up on that high horse.

I think a lot of people need to realise that theyre talking a lot of ****e, when in the end all they are really saying is "this is good for ME"

We finally agree with something.
I'm done, goodluck.

thomas 123

I wonder how all the “sure the Irish went to Australia and America” crowd will feel when the UK closes its borders and we start getting all the North Africans who want to live in a welfare state.

Galwayguy35

amcalester wrote: »

Aren’t immigrants more likely to be working than the natives?

Seems like we need more immigrants and less natives.

We don't need more Roma comng here to beg and steal, it's no wonder they are despised in every country they are in.

People who come here to work and contribute on the other hand are more than welcome.

Yamanoto

I don't think the issue is one of skin tone, I think the issue is cultural. For all the prejudice they had to put up with, the Irish & the Windrush generation found their feet in Britain through graft & perseverance.

EU migrants have been net contributors to the UK economy since 2005 (£5bn) versus non-EEA migrants, who've cost £118bn over precisely the same period.

rosmoke

I think French have a law where they allow residence if you earn a minimum per month.
Anyone who pays taxes and contributes to the society is beneficial for the state and its citizens. It's government's job how the budget is managed.
Having something similar with the French it's not such a bad idea.

InTheShadows

thomas 123 wrote: »

I wonder how all the “sure the Irish went to Australia and America” crowd will feel when the UK closes its borders and we start getting all the North Africans who want to live in a welfare state.

I hear they are opening up a massive refugee camp in D4.:rolleyes: Makes sense since it's the people around that way who are always preaching to the little people about being racist so im glad they are playing a part.

InTheShadows

rosmoke wrote: »

I think French have a law where they allow residence if you earn a minimum per month.
Anyone who pays taxes and contributes to the society is beneficial for the state and its citizens. It's government's job how the budget is managed.
Having something similar with the French it's not such a bad idea.

Have you spent much time in France lately because i have and the French model isn't one you would want to be following. The country is in a mess.

enricoh

Yamanoto wrote: »

I don't think the issue is one of skin tone, I think the issue is cultural. For all the prejudice they had to put up with, the Irish & the Windrush generation found their feet in Britain through graft & perseverance.

EU migrants have been net contributors to the UK economy since 2005 (£5bn) versus non-EEA migrants, who've cost £118bn over precisely the same period.

I take it theres a decimal point missing on that , the 118bn? Jesus i hope so for they're sake, and ours!!
People on here keep saying that ireland benefits financially from immigration, anyone got the figures?

Yamanoto

enricoh wrote: »

I take it theres a decimal point missing on that , the 118bn? Jesus i hope so for they're sake, and ours!!
People on here keep saying that ireland benefits financially from immigration, anyone got the figures?

Years examined by the UCL study were actually 1995 - 2011, but the £118 billion figure is correct.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/european-immigrants-contribute-5bn-to-uk-economy-but-non-eu-migrants-cost-118bn-9840170.html

Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants from outside the EU made a negative contribution of £118 billion over 17 years, the report found, using more publicly-funded services, including the NHS, education and benefits, than they paid in tax.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Cordell wrote: »

I am an immigrant but I fully support welfare restrictions and even deportation for the work shy EU lads.

What?

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Poles are as tight as tuppence

:rolleyes:

beejee wrote: »

"Multiculturalism" amounts to nothing positive beyond ethereal, infantile ideology. Actual multiculturalism is simply vast swathes of people moving in one direction to set up shop for their own betterment.

Such a narrow minded view. It just goes to show that you have no idea what you are talking about. Ireland for the Irish, right? :rolleyes: Pathetic.

beejee

Kristina Stale Shredder wrote: »

What?



:rolleyes:



Such a narrow minded view. It just goes to show that you have no idea what you are talking about. Ireland for the Irish, right? :rolleyes: Pathetic.

Ireland for the irish is pathetic.

A country for irish people is pathetic.

Its pathetic for Irish people to have their own country.

Hmmmm….nope. No matter how you say it, you are exhibiting the symptoms of severe brain corrosion, my friend. I wonder how the people that died to win back an actual country for us would feel about your problems?

I suppose it would be a common link between people that don't like reality, that its "too narrow", that somehow having a much broader, incorrect view of factual things will somehow allow them to escape reality.

Its quite child-like, an infantilistic day-dream for corrupted minds.

But fair play to ye for remembering to breathe, I guess

Cordell

Kristina Stale Shredder wrote: »

What?

It can be done and it has been done before: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11020429