Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Amalgam

Are there laws to prevent A, B, or their families making money from being payed for interviews, etc.. in the future?

Could the family of the murdered teen divert any payments by applying to the courts?

..is there any legislation in place?

What really boiled my piss was a certain drug mule more or less coining it over the last few years, with appearances on various TV tat and tabloid articles.

Suckit

I don't get why anyone wants to know the two boys names. Is it so they can look them up online, or so they can give their families an earful of their disgust?
I can't see what other purpose there could be.

Children the same age and wondered.....? Nope.

mrjoneill

Shemale wrote: »

Absolute horse****e, they knew Ana left her house with Boy B, even if he didnt given up boy A the police would have looked at his friends / school friends

Once Boy B was id his friends would come under suspicion & failing that the whole school would be DNA tested.

shesty

They have been convicted....what is the point of all this?

tuxy

Teepinaw wrote: »

Hi

Did boy B have two phones? And they were lost??

At one point in his life yes. His dad gave a character witness on Boy B and amongst other things pointed out two times in the past where his son had lost phones. This was to give the impression his son was stupid and careless.

Not to be confused with any phones that connect Boy B to he murder, there is no such evidence.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Suckit wrote: »

I don't get why anyone wants to know the two boys names. Is it so they can look them up online, or so they can give their families an earful of their disgust?
I can't see what other purpose there could be.

Children the same age and wondered.....? Nope.

I’d like to know if I was living next door to these depraved lunatics in a few years, if one of them was dating my child/family member or if our paths crossed in any way, I think I should have the right to know if they raped someone or took a life.

mrjoneill

Teepinaw wrote: »

Hi

I haven't read the entire thread.
I've a few questions.

Did boy B have two phones? And they were lost??

I remember hearing on the radio, something about a parent washing one of the boys clothes - twice? Can anyone comment on this please? Which boy was it.

Yes Boy B father state he gave him 2 phones which he lost. Boy B father gave evidence of his son as a timid, forgetful eagerly seeking friends who had no interest in physical activity. Boy A mother made an earlier statement when her son was being treated as a victim of an assault of washing his blood stained jersey 2 times. Ana was still missing at that time.

BarryD2

Suckit wrote: »

I don't get why anyone wants to know the two boys names. Is it so they can look them up online, or so they can give their families an earful of their disgust?

It's an interesting question. I think it maybe because the public expect the justice system to be open and transparent, particularly for serious crimes and more so after conviction.

It seems to make people uneasy or distrustful that the identities of people who are convicted of murder are hidden behind labels. That something is being hidden from view and full accountability is not being upheld.

Force Carrier

mrjoneill wrote: »

Completely wrong the trial judge warned the jury the presence at an assault does not implicate guilt nor observing an assault or any other criminal behavior. There is no onus for to act to stop such. What I understand of the Common Law from old case law is failing to assist a police constable when called to do so to assist may be a criminal of fence. Other than that there is no onus on anyone to intervene in an assault. If Boy B had intervened and assisted Ana it may cancel or ameliorated the common plan which was then in place.
The fact that Boy B was at the killing & did nothing only convinced the jury more of his guilt to a common plan/design. If Boy B stumbled on Boy A killing Ana & he had no prior involvement there would be no onus on him to do anything. The common plan was deduced from the facts that Boy B brought Ana to Boy A at the derelict house. It could not be done unless it was a plan.

You introduced now the idea of not intervening. I never said that that was what was implied. The two key pieces of evidence his presence at the scene and that he knew what was happening came from his admissions. Without them there was no case. That is not to say there was no evidence beyond those points. And of course the case was based on them being involved in a common enterprise. That could not have been proven without B's answers to garda questions.

Hal3000

BloodBath wrote: »

There needs to be a serious review of the law. These little ****s gave up any status of being children or even human when they committed this act.

They are both 1% of the male population that are psychopaths. They are an even further minority of this demographic that go on to commit such heinous acts.

They should never see the light of day again. I'm firmly behind the death penalty for this minority of people once they cross the line like this regardless of age. At the very least they should never be released. Once a psychopath always a psychopath.

Just like the Bulger murderers they will go on to commit other offences once released. But the state will spend millions protecting them and their identities.

I have argued this endlessly on other threads and was told that harsh sentencing doesn't work and we need to understand criminals. We are soft on crime. Im sure both these boys have been well briefed on how long they will get. Don't be surprised when you see the patheticness of the sentence. Mitigating factors - time served - suspended portion. It's happening week in week out and no political party is bothered.

mrjoneill

martingriff wrote: »

It's not but if you read here people are blaming everyone who has any contact with the boys for not catching and stop them and who know what some act first and think later person will do

The school identified itself in its own web page and had posted comments on the regret over Ana's death.

Force Carrier

mrjoneill wrote: »

the whole school would be DNA tested.

Do you know the legal position with this?

guestus

Suckit wrote: »

I don't get why anyone wants to know the two boys names. Is it so they can look them up online, or so they can give their families an earful of their disgust?
I can't see what other purpose there could be.

Children the same age and wondered.....? Nope.

Would you like your daughter going out with one of these guys when they get out of prison , without knowing who they are and what they did?

volchitsa

tuxy wrote: »

It was not found in his home. Boy B talked about a stick he picked up inside one of the rooms of the abandoned building but left it back as it was not suitable to be used as a play sword.

Anyine else think he was trying a bit too hard here? A play sword at 13, Lego at Oberstown? I have 2 boys who were a lot more naive than this lad seems to have been they certainly didn't hang around with friends who had child porn on their phones and wanted to kill people, but I think they stopped selecting the "right" kind of stick to be a play sword around the ages of 9 or 10 at the latest.

tuxy

volchitsa wrote: »

Anyine else think he was trying a bit too hard here? A play sword at 13, Lego at Oberstown? I have 2 boys who were a lot more naive than this lad seems to have been they certainly didn't hang around with friends who had child porn on their phones

It does sound like he wanted to cover himself incase any of his DNA was found inside.

How did you have access to the phones of these friends? Or are you just stating it was back in a time before smart phones?

volchitsa

mrjoneill wrote: »

Once Boy B was id his friends would come under suspicion & failing that the whole school would be DNA tested.

Would this be legal without parental permission?

(All academic now I guess, but I don't think it would have been that easy.)

Ash.J.Williams

guestus wrote: »

Would you like your daughter going out with one of these guys when they get out of prison , without knowing who they are and what they did?

Welcome to boards...


And no

MrFresh

Force Carrier wrote: »

Do you know the legal position with this?

It'd have to be voluntary.

Rubberchikken

would hanging them mean another crime like this wil never happen again?
of course not.
will it change things if the whole word knows their names.
of course not.

jattempting to justify knowing their names by saying that maybe theyll be living near /dating someone i know someday is hogwash.

this news will pass.
the appalling behaviour of some kids will continue. until parents and schools cop on and actually do something about bullying that they know about, nothing will change.

these boys, particularly boy A , sound seriously unhinged.

mrjoneill

Force Carrier wrote: »

You introduced now the idea of not intervening. I never said that that was what was implied. The two key pieces of evidence his presence at the scene and that he knew what was happening came from his admissions. Without them there was no case. That is not to say there was no evidence beyond those points. And of course the case was based on them being involved in a common enterprise. That could not have been proven without B's answers to garda questions.

Not strictly true, both were together earlier that evening & both went to the derelict house using separate routes, with Boy B bringing Ana while Boy A made his own way. This was confirmed prior to the interviews of both Boy A & Boy B by CCTV & witnesses.The contorted statements of Boy B confirmed there was a common design that's all, his presence at the murder scene was he was present to witness the end of what was a common design or purpose. There was no evidence he participated in the actual killing there, other than the belief of a common purpose to lure her there

volchitsa

tuxy wrote: »

It does sound like he wanted to cover himself incase any of his DNA was found inside.

How did you have access to the phones of these friends? Or are you just stating it was back in a time before smart phones?

My eldest is now in his mid 20s, I don't remember exactly when smartphones came in but any kind of phones weren't that common until they got to about 15 round here. Back then, now of course they all have them.

Thing is, I do remember him around that age (1st or 2nd year of secondary school) not wanting to hang about with a boy in his class because this lad was bringing in porn magazines and sticking them under the noses of the girls at break time, intimidating them basically. So I know he wasn't "into" porn at that age or at least not any sort of "aggressive" use of it, and this other guy was in a minority, plus a couple of hangers on who thought it was funny to do this to the girls. I don't think most of the boys were like that.

My point is that they're all keen on sex, of course, but they're also a bit afraid of it at a certain age, and boys/men who are actually into violence against women have always existed. That didn't begin with porn on phones, it just expressed itself in different ways.

martingriff

OwlsZat wrote: »

Read a seemingly intelligent person on Twitter making out like this was somehow his teachers fault, as her parents had done everything possible for her. Surely the blame lies exclusively with the boys and their parents.

I feel in time technology will become a watchdog for sociopathic children but forced compliance seems a long way off. Too many parents suffer from the my Jimmy denial syndrome.

I blame the 2 boys for killing Ana no one else as they did it

facehugger99

shesty wrote: »

They have been convicted....what is the point of all this?

The bloodlust of the mob hasn't been fully sated I presume.

fly_agaric

"I neeeed to know details of who A and B are and what they look like. What if my daughter gets involved with them/I go to buy a used car off them 15 years in future!"

Do people believe that rationale themselves I wonder?
It is driven by voyeurism & also anger (boiling over into people wanting to lash out at someone, anyone).

Even if the Judge had announced it was going to be considered again (when they are adults, when they are coming up for a review or whatever) I think social media reaction of posting stuff breaking the law would have been identical. Whole thing makes me a little sick; social media really is a poison. edit: and now of course I've felt an instant of anger about something and added a drop to the dose.

Force Carrier

mrjoneill wrote: »

Not strictly true, both were together earlier that evening & both went to the derelict house using separate routes, with Boy B bringing Ana while Boy A made his own way. This was confirmed prior to the interviews of both Boy A & Boy B by CCTV & witnesses.The contorted statements of Boy B confirmed there was a common design that's all, his presence at the murder scene was he was present to witness the end of what was a common design or purpose. There was no evidence he participated in the actual killing there, other than the belief of a common purpose to lure her there

Are you claiming that there was other evidence to put B at the crime scene?

facehugger99

Camila Hallowed Apple wrote: »

I’d like to know if I was living next door to these depraved lunatics in a few years, if one of them was dating my child/family member or if our paths crossed in any way, I think I should have the right to know if they raped someone or took a life.

You've probably a better chance of being hit by lightning than having either of the scenarios you've posted happen to you.

So I wouldn't worry about it too much.

mrjoneill

Breaston Plants wrote: »

Anyone know what kind of conditions these 2 guys should expect in Oberstown prison?

Alesha MacPhail murder trial: Boy, 16, denies killing six-year-old girl

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-47291956


The killer here a now 16yr old A student (was 15 when killed) is locked up almost round the clock in a cell. He has a TV & computer games in his cell in a youth detention center. Obv for his own safety he cant be allowed mix with the other young offenders. I presume the same will apply here as for their future education I presume plans will have to be put in place because of their relatively young age to continue with one to one tutoring.

tuxy

Force Carrier wrote: »

Are you claiming that there was other evidence to put B at the crime scene?

His backpack of invisible phones?

freshpopcorn

When I was at the end of primary school/start of secondary school there were a few porn pics/videos going around.
They were nothing violent/just tit pics really/Also there was a lot of Marge/Homer stuff doing the rounds.
A lot of the stuff originated from people texting off for pics off magazines. Then they were forwarded on infrared.(I think)
One thing that never happened tough was shoving them in girls faces.

Suckit

mrjoneill wrote: »

Alesha MacPhail murder trial: Boy, 16, denies killing six-year-old girl

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-47291956

I would imagine that would be a little different (although no less horrific) because she was a six year old.