Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Igotadose

Sardonicat wrote: »

What about any siblings he may have? What have they done?

Potentially plenty. Hid some egregious behavior by the murderers from the parents at an early age that might've helped nip this in the bud. The murderers were pretty sophisticated (multiple cellphones full of porn, apparently, pretty adult behavior for 13 year olds.) Their siblings couldn't have been in the dark. We may know in a few years, who knows.

Sorry, but this family's comfy life is over. Ostracism is perfectly acceptable in this case, actions have consequences. They should move away, they won't be able to show themselves in town, they were parents and siblings of brutal murderers. Forgiveness is crap.

volchitsa

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Edit:I was not the one to bring "the plan" into it. That was mrjoneill. I was asking him how do we know Boy B knew if a plan to do ana harm. A question he still hasn't answered.

I think we're getting away from the original point of all this....which is hourrrrss ago at this stage!...that if Boy B says nothing then the police don't have a case against him.
CCTV and witness statements and speculating that he knew ana would come to some kind of harm is not evidence enough to prove he is guilty of murder.
Just because he says he didnt like ana that does not equate to wanting to do her harm... without some kind of evidence.

That would be one hell of a jump to make.

I don't even know why I'm arguing this point.
If people don't understand that after 5 hours of posting on here, they probably never will.
Night all.

Don't know about anyone else but I've been at work so certainly not posting for five hours on this!

TBH I'm not sure what you're saying : if you mean that if he had said nothing he could have got away with it, well I agree completely and have just said so (I hadn't seen you post at that point). However that would not mean he was not guilty of exactly the same actions for which he has been convicted.

The point is, he did talk, and it's fair enough to take what he said into account, if it fits with what we already know.

And one of the things he said was that nobody liked Ana, nobody wanted to be seen with her and that she was slutty and so on. So there is no way he thought boy A wanted to go out with her.

Also, the way they came and went by different paths etc showed that at the very least they knew she might not cooperate if they were more open about what was planned, and very likely that they were in fact thinking of other people (guards? Her parents?) and trying to throw them off the scent.

Sardonicat

Igotadose wrote: »

Potentially plenty. Hid some egregious behavior by the murderers from the parents at an early age that might've helped nip this in the bud. The murderers were pretty sophisticated (multiple cellphones full of porn, apparently, pretty adult behavior for 13 year olds.) Their siblings couldn't have been in the dark. We may know in a few years, who knows.

Sorry, but this family's comfy life is over. Ostracism is perfectly acceptable in this case, actions have consequences. They should move away, they won't be able to show themselves in town, they were parents and siblings of brutal murderers. Forgiveness is crap.

I don't know the family make up myself. But just to be clear; you think any siblings, who may be very young , should be punished by society for the rest of their lives for something they had no hand, act or part in .You actually think this should happen?

dickangel

Igotadose wrote: »

Potentially plenty. Hid some egregious behavior by the murderers from the parents at an early age that might've helped nip this in the bud. The murderers were pretty sophisticated (multiple cellphones full of porn, apparently, pretty adult behavior for 13 year olds.) Their siblings couldn't have been in the dark. We may know in a few years, who knows.

Sorry, but this family's comfy life is over. Ostracism is perfectly acceptable in this case, actions have consequences. They should move away, they won't be able to show themselves in town, they were parents and siblings of brutal murderers. Forgiveness is crap.

What a load of sh1te.

tuxy

Sardonicat wrote: »

I don't know the family make up myself. But just to be clear; you think any siblings, who may be very young , should be punished by society for the rest of their lives for something they had no hand, act or part in .You actually think this should happen?

And perhaps Grandparents also. Three generations punished, it's standard practice in communist countries so why not here?

dickangel

tuxy wrote: »

And perhaps Grandparents also. Three generations punished, it's standard practice in communist countries so why not here?

Perhaps the household pets as well?

jobbridge4life

Tonight the following is true:

Boy A and Boy B are detained and will be for many years. This is right and proper.

Wannabe vigilantes, keyboard hard men and people who get some weird, sad satisfaction from seeming more distressed/or outraged about the situation have been clamouring for the names... the pictures... for the parents to be imprisoned... for their other children to be seized and handed over to strangers.

I make absolutely no apology for knowing and saying that those in that camp are shameful, and those who share your feelings are responsible for the other truths of this night:

An innocent child has been named, shamed and shared as one of the perpetrators;

The family of Boy B, who include other young and totally innocent children have been forced into hiding.

And for what?

I echo the remarks of Justice Michael White, and hope that AGS “pursue with vigour” the “idiots” responsible for this. Including as many of the sad mob begging for it as possible.

iamwhoiam

Just watched Prime Time . What a sad and painful story to watch . Anas parents are so dignified and spoke beautiful words about their Ana outside court
Sometimes we forget that Ana was a mother and fathers little girl and their pain and trauma is heart wrenching .

Let us never forget Ana and I hope we learn from this . And just maybe young people watching might think twice about what they did by de humanising Ana and see what bullying does . Maybe parents will see it and speak to their kids and maybe schools will see it and review their actions towards bullying
Let Anas story teach us to watch out for each other .

Gimme A Pound

Igotadose wrote: »

Potentially plenty. Hid some egregious behavior by the murderers from the parents at an early age that might've helped nip this in the bud. The murderers were pretty sophisticated (multiple cellphones full of porn, apparently, pretty adult behavior for 13 year olds.) Their siblings couldn't have been in the dark. We may know in a few years, who knows.

Sorry, but this family's comfy life is over. Ostracism is perfectly acceptable in this case, actions have consequences. They should move away, they won't be able to show themselves in town, they were parents and siblings of brutal murderers. Forgiveness is crap.

That's just speculation about the siblings. It is of no value. Bizarre the way you're writing bits of it as if it's fact. I didn't know the faintest clue about anything my brothers were up to. Nobody said anything about forgiveness.

It's pretty sh1tty to be saying the siblings deserve ostracisation simply because of who their brothers are. ****ing hell.

If only those in the community who think the same way you do had used that passion to help Ana when she was alive.

Sardonicat

tuxy wrote: »

And perhaps Grandparents also. Three generations punished, it's standard practice in communist countries so why not here?

Maybe all the inhabitants of Leixlip should be rounded up and burned alive or shot in the back of the head at the edge of a pit?

Would that satisfy you?

jimmycrackcorm

Gerianam wrote: »

Yes! Well done GardaProfessional to their finger tips. They are not getting the regognition they deserve. They excelled themselves in this investigation.

At the end, Ana's parents hugged the guards. They're much more than policemen, guardians of the peace is a deserved name.

Happy4all

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Tonight the following is true:

Boy A and Boy B are detained and will be for many years. This is right and proper.

Wannabe vigilantes, keyboard hard men and people who get some weird, sad satisfaction from seeming more distressed/or outraged about the situation have been clamouring for the names... the pictures... for the parents to be imprisoned... for their other children to be seized and handed over to strangers.

I make absolutely no apology for knowing and saying that those in that camp are shameful, and those who share your feelings are responsible for the other truths of this night:

An innocent child has been named, shamed and shared as one of the perpetrators;

The family of Boy B, who include other young and totally innocent children have been forced into hiding.

And for what?

I echo the remarks of Justice Michael White, and hope that AGS “pursue with vigour” the “idiots” responsible for this. Including as many of the sad mob begging for it as possible.

everybody locally know them from day one. Can't help feel their post sentence outcry is part of trying to dilute justice for Ana.

bessboroughboy

For anyone interested, try googling "frontal lobe" and "serial killers". The point is that it may be the case that some people are simply born bad.

Regarding the internet, what they viewed may have influenced them as to what kind of a scenario they chose, but perhaps they would have acted on their impulses in any case, albeit with a different modus operandi.

Either way, society needs to be protected from bittle lastards like these so throw away the key because rehabilitation is hardly an option.

Gimme A Pound

Happy4all wrote: »

everybody locally know them from day one. Can't help feel their post sentence outcry is part of trying to dilute justice for Ana.

Whose post sentence outcry? The dad I know, but were there others?

Stheno

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Whose post sentence outcry? The dad I know, but were there others?

His family apparently they didn't feel the need to move until now

odyssey06

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Tonight the following is true:
Boy A and Boy B are detained and will be for many years. This is right and proper.

Wannabe vigilantes, keyboard hard men and people who get some weird, sad satisfaction from seeming more distressed/or outraged about the situation have been clamouring for the names... the pictures... for the parents to be imprisoned... for their other children to be seized and handed over to strangers.

I make absolutely no apology for knowing and saying that those in that camp are shameful, and those who share your feelings are responsible for the other truths of this night:

An innocent child has been named, shamed and shared as one of the perpetrators;

The family of Boy B, who include other young and totally innocent children have been forced into hiding.

And for what?

I echo the remarks of Justice Michael White, and hope that AGS “pursue with vigour” the “idiots” responsible for this. Including as many of the sad mob begging for it as possible.

They were tried as capable of criminal responsibility in an adult court.
They should have been named.

Anyone who breaks the law in harrassing family should be arrested.

Happy4all

Stheno wrote: »

His family apparently they didn't feel the need to move until now

and remaining living in the area was always going to be impossible..because of the ACTIONS OF THEIR SON.....no one else.

Gimme A Pound

Stheno wrote: »

His family apparently they didn't feel the need to move until now

I get ya. Still possible though. And the thought of younger kids being terrorised by the mob is heartbreaking too. But that bullying would be ok - shur damn them for who their brothers are.

tuxy

odyssey06 wrote: »

They were tried as capable of criminal responsibility in an adult court.
They should have been named.

Anyone who breaks the law in harrassing family should be arrested.

It was an adult court because of the severity of the crime but they are still children in the eyes of the law in Irish. They are children who because of their age(over 10 years old) age can be held responsible for murder.
Many of the things people are now calling for could have resulted in a mistrial, is that really the outcome you wanted?

jobbridge4life

odyssey06 wrote: »

They should have been named.

To what end?

odyssey06 wrote: »

Anyone who breaks the law in harrassing family should be arrested.

That still means innocent people will have been harassed or worse when we could chose to reduce the chances. If the idea of children being harassed is an acceptable risk to some, it's not acceptable to me.

martingriff

mrjoneill wrote: »

The school identified itself in its own web page and had posted comments on the regret over Ana's death.

Oh don't get me wrong the school is out I was just trying to give a reason why the judge might make such an order maybe trying to defend the innocents.

martingriff

guestus wrote: »

Would you like your daughter going out with one of these guys when they get out of prison , without knowing who they are and what they did?

I would not like anyone I know dating them but by the time they get out they may have a different name or changed there appearance or are you going to stop your daughter dating any John Smith (plucked name from my head) or maybe some poor unfortunate innocent who looks like one

Gadgetman496

Boy A wore a horror mask, nee pad and whatever else was part of his killing gear.

I'd imagine it was designed to frighten the life out of poor Ana.

The state afforded boy A & B anonymity, and did you know that the judge and the legal people discarded their wigs and robes and all dressed in suits during the trial so as not to intimidate the two little boys on trial.

odyssey06

tuxy wrote: »

It was an adult court because of the severity of the crime but they are still children in the eyes of the law in Irish. They are children who because of their age(over 10 years old) age can be held responsible for murder.
Many of the things people are now calling for could have resulted in a mistrial, is that really the outcome you wanted?

They are criminally responsible. That law is real. Treating them as children rather than young adults when they are found guilty of such a serious crime and thinking you could keep their names under wraps is fantasy stuff. Their names were known all over the locality.

We name other murderers. Child killers too. Doesnt cause a mistrial.

Aisling_Dublin

Rogelio Purring Dresser wrote: »

My concern is that everyone knew she was bullied in the school. Why did her parents leave her there? Why not move her?

Exactly what I think, too. I would move countries for my child in this situation.

Omackeral

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Boy A wore a horror mask, nee pad and whatever else was part of his killing gear.

I'd imagine it was designed to frighten the life out of poor Ana.

The state afforded boy A & B anonymity, and did you know that the judge and the legal people discarded their wigs and robes and all dressed in suits during the trial so as not to intimidate the two little boys on trial.

Sure the little knacks were excused from hearing evidence as it was deemed too graphic for them... even though it was them who bloody caused it. Farce.

odyssey06

jobbridge4life wrote: »

To what end?
That still means innocent people will have been harassed or worse when we could chose to reduce the chances. If the idea of children being harassed is an acceptable risk to some, it's not acceptable to me.

We would name an adult child killer even if they have children of their own.
To what end?
Murderers should be treated the same regardless of age.

Force Carrier

martingriff wrote: »

I would not like anyone I know dating them but by the time they get out they may have a different name or changed there appearance or are you going to stop your daughter dating any John Smith (plucked name from my head) or maybe some poor unfortunate innocent who looks like one

The man involved in this murder is living in london with a wife and kids and working in finance.

Wonder do any of his colleagues or friends know his history.

Blinky Plebum

I read the long article on the Irish times website and a couple of things that struck me was how incredibly poorly in my eyes the Psychologist who interviewed Boy B came across and how completely crass and insensitive Boy B's father was to start shouting at the end of the trial.

Unbelievably sad story the sort of thing that will honestly stick with me for life.Feel terribly sorry for Ana's parents they must have waited so long to finally have a child and now she's been cruelly taken away from them.

SirChenjin

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Just watched Prime Time . What a sad and painful story to watch . Anas parents are so dignified and spoke beautiful words about their Ana outside court
Sometimes we forget that Ana was a mother and fathers little girl and their pain and trauma is heart wrenching .

Let us never forget Ana and I hope we learn from this . And just maybe young people watching might think twice about what they did by de humanising Ana and see what bullying does . Maybe parents will see it and speak to their kids and maybe schools will see it and review their actions towards bullying
Let Anas story teach us to watch out for each other .

Haven't watched the programme but it's a point I have made a couple of times in the thread. Ana was a beautiful child who was deeply loved. This is evident from everything that her parents said about her in the course of the trial. I cannot begin to imagine their horrendous loss, in the very worst of circumstances.

May she rest in peace, poor innocent child.