Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Shemale

BarryD2 wrote: »

Doesn't quite stack up. Why would one family go into hiding and not the other, particularly when the latter is more directly connected with the actual assault?

Also curious that it was reported that it was the legal team for parents of Boy B who sought the further injunctions against publishers. One can only conclude that they have more to lose and the in court behaviour of one parent left a lot to be desired.

Boy Bs dad is a sack of **** he is probably concocting this to try get money out of people that named his son.

jimmycrackcorm

spurious wrote: »

I haven't read the last ten pages or so, so apologies if someone else has asked this, but I was wondering why Boy B didn't essentially keep his mouth shut.

He almost could have got off. The decision to show his interview videos instead of the normal reading out of written statements though it took much longer was paramount.

What it showed was that he was involved initially having called for Ana, and have an explanation, then everyone the guards came across and presented more evidence such as CCTV, he changed his story until he eventually admitted after 9 times that he was present.
He could have stopped at any point and simply said no comment. I think that might have been enough for reasonable doubt perhaps, but the guards were excellent in their technique drawing it out.

Omackeral

Fall_Guy wrote: »

The concept of presumption of innocence is crucial to the Irish legal system. At the time the evidence was being shown it had yet to be determined that they had caused it. Do you think it would be right for two innocent children to be exposed to that graphic evidence? I certainly don't, and as such I think it was a good call on the part of the judge.

Fair point, never thought of it from that position. Thanks for the explanation. Still, there's definitely irony at play in the situation, albeit in hindsight technically.

Omackeral

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, these absolute horrors had to be excused for graphic evidence and the adult court made a bit more child-friendly, seems crazy and farcical considering the verdict, but I now know and understand why it is that way and I'm glad that the presumption of innocence exists in our court system.

Absolutely agree with you. I wasn't thinking of it from a legal standpoint. I'm on board and happy to have my mind changed. Thanks to the poster who challenged my view, I see their point and have adjusted my opinion.

Fall_Guy

Blinky Plebum wrote: »

Not in favour of death penalty but honestly I have no issue with giving any cold blooded murderers as hard a time as humanly possible in prison.They don't deserve any sympathy.This was a crime of pure nastiness there is absolutely nothing in the world that can even attempt to justify it.

They should not be allowed out of prison again , life should mean life and ridiculously it doesn't. I really wish somebody would challenge this in the courts and have life sentences actually mean life in prison.

Murder is the worst crime a person can commit it is the only crime that you can't have the potential to recover from and it should mean you never get out of prison again.

That's such black and white thinking on what is such a complex subject. In the case of these young boys there are a lot of unknowns, but let's take the worst case scenario and assume both are "evil /psychopaths / whatever term you choose" and for some unexplained neurological reason or some supernatural reason (depending on your beliefs) are incapable of remorse or rehabilitation....why would you be against the death penalty? If their inability to function safely in society is not in their control, if they are "psychopaths" they can't just choose to be good, upstanding citizens, it is out of their control. Why do you feel they should continue to be punished for as long as they live? In a case like this would the death penalty not be the more compassionate action to take, something more akin to the likes of euthanasia?

On the flip side, if someone in a moment of temporary madness commits a terrible crime of passion that they are immediately remorseful for and they truly would not be likely to re-offend or be a danger to society again, why should they be kept in prison until the day they die?


In this case I don't know if these boys were psychopaths. I know they had very troubling interests, I know they were exposed to a great deal of very troubling content through their own searches online. I know that these really dark tendencies don't seem to have been flagged by any adults in their lives, be it teachers or parents. I don't know if I'd go as far as to say this was an avoidable tragedy, but I can't help but feel that less Internet access and more engagement on the part of the boys parents or teachers could have had SOME difference in the path that those boys ended up walking. As it is, it's a horrific tragedy, and a part of me really does feel that those two boys would be better off dead at this point, not to feed the thirst for justice porn that is rampant (understandably) at the moment but more for their own sake. What sort of existence can they have going forward in their lives from here on out?

fryup

Shemale wrote: »

Boy Bs dad is a sack of **** he is probably concocting this to try get money out of people that named his son.

or maybe the social media websites??

Force Carrier

Force Carrier wrote: »

The man involved in this murder is living in london with a wife and kids and working in finance.

Wonder do any of his colleagues or friends know his history.

Interestingly that article says he was never named as he was a minor. But everyone knows his name! I wasn't even born in 1973 and I know it.

These guy's names will filter down to everyone, eventually.

Gadgetman496

Amazing how the teacher was so gifted that she flagged her serious concerns about Ana yet appears to (as far as we know) have been unable to see through the real interests of the two boys.

tuxy

fryup wrote: »

or maybe the social media websites??

Or maybe he didn't want to move his whole family?

Blinky Plebum

Fall_Guy wrote: »

That's such black and white thinking on what is such a complex subject. In the case of these young boys there are a lot of unknowns, but let's take the worst case scenario and assume both are "evil /psychopaths / whatever term you choose" and for some unexplained neurological reason or some supernatural reason (depending on your beliefs) are incapable of remorse or rehabilitation....why would you be against the death penalty? If their inability to function safely in society is not in their control, if they are "psychopaths" they can't just choose to be good, upstanding citizens, it is out of their control. Why do you feel they should continue to be punished for as long as they live? In a case like this would the death penalty not be the more compassionate action to take, something more akin to the likes of euthanasia?

On the flip side, if someone in a moment of temporary madness commits a terrible crime of passion that they are immediately remorseful for and they truly would not be likely to re-offend or be a danger to society again, why should they be kept in prison until the day they die?


In this case I don't know if these boys were psychopaths. I know they had very troubling interests, I know they were exposed to a fret deal of very troubling content through their own searches online. I know that these really dark tendencies don't seem to have been flagged by any adults in their lives, be it teachers or parents. I don't know if I'd go as far as to say this was an avoidable tragedy, but I can't help but feel that less Internet access and more engagement on the part of the boys parents could have had SOME difference in the path that those boys ended up walking. As it is, it's a horrific tragedy, and a part of me really does feel that those two boys would be better off dead at this point, not to feed the thirst for justice porn that is rampant (understandably) at the moment but more for their own sake. What sort of existence can they have going forward in their lives from here on out?

This was pure calculated evil, there was no emotion (passion,anger whatever else you might try to use as an excuse) to explain it.

I don't care about being compassionate for individuals like this, they don't deserve any compassion.

Most people have dark angry thoughts throughout there lives (i.e.I'd love to kick the ****e out of that dickhead), but most people know the line and know that acting upon them is wrong.

These boys were old enough and intelligent enough to know what they were doing was wrong.

iamwhoiam

I am beginning to think the boys should never be named . Not to protect them but so they will never be known or spoken about or made feel important .
They should remain invisible and not be seen as anything but two murdering gutless little ****s

But we should remember Ana by name and give her a name and remember her smile and her beauty . Ana Kriegel should not be forgotten

Force Carrier

Deleted User wrote: »

These guy's names will filter down to everyone, eventually.

Yes, trying to suppress it almost creates more hype and interest around it.
And in this day and age you really can't keep anything like that hidden.
You can see what the law is trying to do but it doesn't really work out in reality.

joe40

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Amazing how the teacher was so gifted that she flagged her serious concerns about Ana yet appears to (as far as we know) have been unable to see through the real interests of the two boys.

What are you talking about. Is the teacher supposed to be a mind reader. This thread getting idiotic at this stage

iamwhoiam

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Amazing how the teacher was so gifted that she flagged her serious concerns about Ana yet appears to (as far as we know) have been unable to see through the real interests of the two boys.

She was Ana primary school teacher . Were the boys in that school ? Did she know them ? Did she have contact with them ? Was she in their home checking their phones ?

monty_python

This thread needs to be locked up now.
What can be said that hasn't already been said??

tuxy

monty_python wrote: »

This thread needs to be locked up now.
What can be said that hasn't already been said??

There's loads that can be said about the sentencing that has yet to take place......

Gadgetman496

iamwhoiam wrote: »

She was Ana primary school teacher . Were the boys in that school ? Did she know them ? Did she have contact with them ? Was she in their home checking their phones ?

Was she in Ana's home checking her phone?

Cryptopagan

Force Carrier wrote: »

You can be fairly certain the solicitor's advice was to keep shtum. That's standard.

I think the dynamic of his parents presence here might have had an influence.
The lad was maintaining his innocence to them as much as to the garda and was saying I can answer everything it's all ok.

Also he was basically unknowledgeable and inexperienced at dealing with being accused of a crime, dealing with police and being in custody. His solicitor was probably going nuts on the inside but could do nothing.

And presumably the parents could have brought the questioning to an end at any time by getting up and walking out of the station, preventing the guards from continuing to legally question the boy. If they realised that their son was guilty and talking himself into a hole, and if they wanted to prevent his conviction, that would have been the obvious course of action. They facilitated his conviction by sitting there, which makes me think they probably believed he was innocent, just an unwitting tool of boy A, etc.

iamwhoiam

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Was she in Ana's home checking her phone?

I think you need a reality check

Fall_Guy

Blinky Plebum wrote: »

This was pure calculated evil, there was no emotion (passion,anger whatever else you might try to use as an excuse) to explain it.

I don't care about being compassionate for individuals like this, they don't deserve any compassion.

Most people have dark angry thoughts throughout there lives (i.e.I'd love to kick the ****e out of that dickhead), but most people know the line and know that acting upon them is wrong.

These boys were old enough and intelligent enough to know what they were doing was wrong.

I'm not sure how you think I was trying to excuse this crime. I most definitely wasn't considering it a crime of passion, when I mentioned that I was talking about your contention that all murders should carry a real life sentence. But the reality is the circumstances of murders can vary greatly.

This one, however, I was putting firmly in the purely calculated camp, and saying that it does seem to fit the "evil" description often given to crimes like this, and they may well be (or at least boy a) psychopaths.... But if that's the case, they are 1. Beyond rehabilitation and 2. Not truly in control of their actions. None of the evidence suggests that psychopathy is a state of mind that someone simply chooses. In that case I can't get in line with the thinking they should be constantly punished until their dying day. What you are viewing as a person's choice to commit evil acts is really far less of an act of free will than you are painting it.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

Absolutely agree with you. I wasn't thinking of it from a legal standpoint. I'm on board and happy to have my mind changed. Thanks to the poster who challenged my view, I see their point and have adjusted my opinion.

I totally understand where you were coming from though and was initially 'WTF?!' myself on hearing that they were excused from such things.

selectamatic

iamwhoiam wrote: »

She was Ana primary school teacher . Were the boys in that school ? Did she know them ? Did she have contact with them ? Was she in their home checking their phones ?

Facts like these don't matter to the it's the schools/overpaid teachers fault brigade.

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Amazing how the teacher was so gifted that she flagged her serious concerns about Ana yet appears to (as far as we know) have been unable to see through the real interests of the two boys.

Her resource teacher from Primary school. Who most likely had zero dealings with boy A or B. As they probably didn't go to that school at all. And who by all accounts went above and beyond for Ana.

Ya good man for trying to find yet another way to put some blame on a teacher.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

jobbridge4life wrote: »

To what end?



That still means innocent people will have been harassed or worse when we could chose to reduce the chances. If the idea of children being harassed is an acceptable risk to some, it's not acceptable to me.

Do you think that nobody should be named in court cases given the worry you have about the mobs reaction to families.

The whole family of B fleeing the mob is bollocks btw. Where’s the mob?

mrjoneill

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Boy A wore a horror mask, nee pad and whatever else was part of his killing gear.

I'd imagine it was designed to frighten the life out of poor Ana.

The state afforded boy A & B anonymity, and did you know that the judge and the legal people discarded their wigs and robes and all dressed in suits during the trial so as not to intimidate the two little boys on trial.

I don't see Boy A gear that way. I see the mask as acting out some character he may have seen & Boy B told the investigating Gardai it was so cool. This is not the first case where a teenager has acted out a horror character to commit an abominable crime. His Timberland boots, knee pads & shinguard was for battle on his victim.

Fan of Netflix

https://twitter.com/CathMurphyTD/status/1141817958890639360

Monumental

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

What do you mean ?

There's always that ONE who tries to go off topic and tie in another case ,this is about Ana and the court verdict of her murderers

Shemale

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Jesus.

Why not just kill them?

Make up your mind!

Tin Foil Hat

I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that we may have convicted at least one, if not two, potential serial killers on their first outing. They need to be sentenced accordingly. That means that the judge needs to hand out at least one, hopefully two, life sentences. When these two are eventually released, and they will be, the state must have the power to lock either of them away indefinitely if they are subsequently deemed to be a real danger to other women or girls.

fryup

monty_python wrote: »

This thread needs to be locked up now.
What can be said that hasn't already been said??

tuxy wrote: »

There's loads that can be said about the sentencing that has yet to take place......

can we lock it till then

jimmycrackcorm

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Amazing how the teacher was so gifted that she flagged her serious concerns about Ana yet appears to (as far as we know) have been unable to see through the real interests of the two boys.

I guess she wasn't a mind reader.