Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

gozunda

mrjoneill wrote: »

I don't agree, the totality of Boys B actions evidence acquired from CCTY & witness statement led to believe he as was active accomplice. As for his interviews they are lie after lie, with half truths interspersed with pure deceit while coming across as the helpful boy next door. He really believed he was so clever he could pull this crime off.

I'm sure Boy A and Boy B planned it down to the last detail with the "mask" being central to their plan, acting out some character. but they overlooked key factors such as CCTV and witness evidence. They never expected such a spirited defense by Ana. Boy A thought he would not even come under suspicion and made no attempt to destroy evidence he had control off. Even if their plan went off without a hitch and Ana was alone at home and her dad didn't see anyone call, witnesses identified her in the park with a boy and CCTV would be trawled to identify who it was. In the end their plan showed such naivety.

It is likely that they didn't completly overlook the CCTV in the park. In one way I believe they may have relied on it to back up the story that they both gave to the gardai - that they last saw Ana in the park. Boy A and B being in the park certainly could be proved by CCTV. Additionally boy A claimed he was attacked in the park and the speculation by Boy that Ana was also attacked in the park.

Unfortunately they didn't account for the fact that the CCTV footage could be used against them both. Crucially they didnt allow for witnesses at all imo. I agree that boy A did not expect Ana to fight back the way she did and inflict injuries which Boy A could not pretend had not happened.

Imo it was from this point forward the stories unravelled and the reality of what they had done struck home. From there their stories diverge, with boy B increasingly and desperately lying and throwing boy A under the bus and boy A declaring that everything boy B was saying was a lie...

CollyFlower

I can't believe boy B lost 2 phones, but if he did, the phones can be traced,.. I think there was a lot of evidence that wasn't made public.

Nobelium

Monumental wrote: »

Local people would have known who they were from day one , why the sudden need to relocate ,please dont tell me they are looking for sympathy their sons committed the most horrific crime and they stood by them during their trial forcing Anna's parents to listen to horrendous evidence .If relocation could bring Ana back I'm sure her parents would do it in a heartbeat without complaint

Because now, Boy B's family have obviously switched from "Gardai Conspiracy" to looking for as much resettlement and identity change compo they can get from the state and social media companies.

SEPT 23 1989

Nobelium wrote: »

Because now, Boy B's family have obviously switched from "Gardai Conspiracy" to looking for as much resettlement and identity change compo they can get from the state and social media companies.

Absolute scum

They just keep on digging

Seth Brundle

The Specialist wrote: »

Give me 2 lengths of rope and a tree and I’ll do it without even a second thought.

So does that make you better than them or the same as them?

SirChenjin

In the Irish Times article which has been referred to a number of times in the thread, there is a mention of 'someone in court staring at Boy B’s family at length and said it was distressing them.'

There are no words. :mad:

What about Ana? What about her parents and the distress ( far too soft a word to describe) caused to them by not alone losing their very much loved child but having to listen to the horror that was her final hours?

I cannot find it in me to feel sympathy for the murderers or for their parents.
I just regret the horrible twist of fate that placed Ana in their sphere by the simple fact of having started secondary school at the same time as the evil little ****ers.

branie2

I don't feel sympathy for the boys and their families either

brooke 2

wiggle16 wrote: »

But what does that matter? What would the mother have known?

I really don't know what you're getting at, unless you think the mother knew something like this was going to happen??

They targeted her because they knew she was vulnerable, that if they asked her to meet them or come out with them she would skip out the door with them, that she would be at home when they called.

Her mother freaked because she came home, Ana was out with "friends" when her mother knew she had none in the area, knew she was immature for her age. Factor in that she was an only child and her parents were older than average for a girl her age.

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one - her mother was probably a bit over protective and Ana was herself vulnerable and the mother knew this. That's why she went out looking. It's not a conspiracy.

Ana was not an only child. She had a brother, [Mod-Redacted] who was younger than she was.

OwlsZat

Lucuma wrote: »

Boy B said Ana showed him the picture of herself bound & gagged as they walked through the park. Which may not be true - he may have seen it online at another stage. But he had obviously seen it because he couldn't have known about it independent from it being mentioned by Ana's mother in her testimony otherwise.
To me it was just another sad fact of the case. You're allowed to be an insecure, confused teenager that craves attention. You're allowed to do weird things. We're all a bit weird in our own way and can live our whole lives that way!

It doesn't mean anyone else has a right to take your life

That's such an interesting point. It did strike me as exceptionally odd at the time. As did the remarks he made about her slutty clothing. He was clearly listening to these opinions from people he respected most likely his parents.

SirChenjin

brooke 2 wrote: »

Ana was not an only child. She had a brother, who was younger than she was.

That's correct. Maybe take his name out though. I think there has been an effort by the media not to disclose his name.

Strazdas

Lucuma wrote: »

Boy B said Ana showed him the picture of herself bound & gagged as they walked through the park. Which may not be true - he may have seen it online at another stage. But he had obviously seen it because he couldn't have known about it independent from it being mentioned by Ana's mother in her testimony otherwise.
To me it was just another sad fact of the case. You're allowed to be an insecure, confused teenager that craves attention. You're allowed to do weird things. We're all a bit weird in our own way and can live our whole lives that way!

It doesn't mean anyone else has a right to take your life

I don't find the bound and gagged photo odd at all. Young teenagers do this type of thing quite frequently : usually just as a prank or because they are bored. I would read very little into it.

brooke 2

SirChenjin wrote: »

That's correct. Maybe take his name out though. I think there has been an effort by the media not to disclose his name.

Mods have done it.

fash

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So does that make you better than them or the same as them?

Well considering that the two boys raped and murdered an entirely innocent girl and did so in a particularly violent and cruel manner - and given that are quite likely to do so again, versus the above scenario where retribution - however misplaced - is being sought, I'd go with "better".

gimli2112

brooke 2 wrote: »

Ana was not an only child. She had a brother, [Mod-Redacted] who was younger than she was.

Didn't know that, somehow that makes me even sadder

tuxy

fash wrote: »

Well considering that the two boys raped and murdered an entirely innocent girl and did so in a particularly violent and cruel manner - and given that are quite likely to do so again, versus the above scenario where retribution - however misplaced - is being sought, I'd go with "better".

When was the charge for Boy B also upgraded to include rape?

splinter65

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The test for psychopathy is just a series of questions. It doesn’t need a phd to actually work it out. You can do it online.

2-5-% of the population are psychopaths. Which is common enough.

Psychopathy can’t be diagnosed in under 18s.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

tuxy wrote: »

When was the charge for Boy B also upgraded to include rape?

Seriously?? Is murder not enough? Luring a child out of the safety of her home, away from her dad, to her death?

tuxy

Camila Hallowed Apple wrote: »

Seriously?? Is murder not enough? Luring a child out of the safety of her home, away from her dad, to her death?

What's wrong with asking about new details about the case that has come to light? The media have yet to disclose the new info that fash has given us. It could have a serious impact on sentencing which does not take place until next month.

Boggles

Lucuma wrote: »

But what could they have done about it even if they had discovered that his non-smart-phone had been activated on 14th May? If the evidence is gone, it's gone

If the non smart phone had only been activated or used after the murder that would have been evidence and used to discredit the 2 defense witnesses who volunteered that information.

Boggles

splinter65 wrote: »

Psychopathy can’t be diagnosed in under 18s.

Technically no.

But psychopathic traits can be, and they were in the case you referenced.

In fact the clinical psychologist who examined that scum bag was in no real doubt and controversially called for screening in certain children.

retro:electro

tuxy wrote: »

What's wrong with asking about new details about the case that has come to light? The media have yet to disclose the new info that fash has given us. It could have a serious impact on sentencing which does not take place until next month.

I believe you’ve been asked two or three times for the link which states Boy B lost the two phones months in advance of the murder so maybe answer that before you go throwing around questions.

tuxy

retro:electro wrote: »

I believe you’ve been asked two or three times for the link which states Boy B lost the two phones months in advance of the murder so maybe answer that before you go throwing around questions.

Don't you mean prior to the murder? An exact date was not given in the long Irish times article.

retro:electro

tuxy wrote: »

Don't you mean prior to the murder? An exact date was not given in the long Irish times article.

So you stating as fact on several occasions that they went missing “long before the murder happened” would be incorrect then?

tuxy

retro:electro wrote: »

So you stating as fact on several occasions that they went missing “long before the murder happened” would be incorrect then?

They had been missing long enough before hand for his father to buy him a new non smart phone.
However I am now coming around to the idea Boy B had a backpack full of electrical gadgets. And that some of these phones were given to Ana to groom her over the course of many years.
Boy B also took video from a few angles on the day and uploaded them to the dark web.
It's all these in the reports.

retro:electro

tuxy wrote: »

They had been missing long enough before hand for his father to buy him a new non smart phone.
However I am now coming around to the idea Boy B had a backpack full of electrical gadgets. And that some of these phones were given to Ana to groom her over the course of many years.
Boy B also took video from a few angles on the day and uploaded them to the dark web.
It's all these in the reports.

You don’t get to infer and make absolute statements of fact based on speculation. He could have bought the new phone at any stage. You don’t know how long before the murder the phones went missing, thanks for clearing that up.

Stheno

tuxy wrote: »

They had been missing long enough before hand for his father to buy him a new non smart phone.
However I am now coming around to the idea Boy B had a backpack full of electrical gadgets. And that some of these phones were given to Ana to groom her over the course of many years.
Boy B also took video from a few angles on the day and uploaded them to the dark web.
It's all these in the reports.

What reports is this info in?

tuxy

Stheno wrote: »

What reports is this info in?

It's a combination of statements made in this thread. Which I combined into a 2 line summary report.

Stheno

tuxy wrote: »

It's a combination of statements made in this thread. Which I combined into a 2 line summary report.

Right so nothing that w was said in court more your interpretation?

tuxy

Stheno wrote: »

Right so nothing that w was said in court more your interpretation?

No it's the interpretation of other posters, my imagination is not as vivid.

GarIT

tuxy wrote: »

Boy B also took video from a few angles on the day and uploaded them to the dark web.

Video of the sexual assault/murder or something else? Which report is this in?