Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Nobelium

Boggles wrote: »

Well no.

Detaining them would have been the populous choice. He had a notorious hard line on justice, freeing the most infamous child killers in British History would not have garnered him votes.

Your talking complete pony.

Depends on the mitigating factors, if there is indeed any.

But I'm guessing any opinion I give that differs from yours will just get be labelled a liberal snowflake, would that be accurate?

I predicted you wouldn't answer with anything other than weasel words.

How long should they get and what conditions should they be kept in and why ?

Gadgetman496

Stheno wrote: »

Yes that's the case

Due to his age, the life sentence was not mandatory. However, Mr Justice Barry White used his discretion in imposing it, after hearing all the details, including that Goodwin had ‘wanted to kill someone’.

He's out now I guess?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-26-jailed-for-life-as-a-teenager-for-hammering-boy-to-death-to-be-released-in-less-than-two-years-30580270.html

Boggles

Nobelium wrote: »

I expected the weasel words.

How long should they get and what conditions should they be kept in and why ?

I answered all ready there chief.

Boggles wrote: »

Depends on the mitigating factors, if there is indeed any.

Nobelium

Boggles wrote: »

I answered all ready there chief.

You didn't and I'm not chief, boss, pal, dude, bro, bud or anything else.

How long should they get and what conditions should they be kept in and why ?

Gadgetman496

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

He's out now I guess?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-26-jailed-for-life-as-a-teenager-for-hammering-boy-to-death-to-be-released-in-less-than-two-years-30580270.html

Yep out

Goodwin, who was 15 at the time of the brutal attack, walked free from Mountjoy training centre on June 30 this year (2016) after serving just 13 years.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/224362/beast-who-killed-boy-with-a-hammer-boasts-about-making-up-for-lost-time-with-females-after-being-released-from-prison/

Boggles

Nobelium wrote: »

You didn't and I'm not chief, boss, pal, dude, bro, bud or anything else.

Sorry Son.

Nobelium wrote: »

How long should they get and what conditions should they be kept in and why ?

The Judge will determine what they get, he has asked for several reports to aide him in the making the decision.

But you want me now without any reports to tell you what they should get and how they should be held?

Impossible I'm afraid.

But sure if it helps your erection, keep them a box for 50 years, then kill them, bury them, dig them up and put their bones in prison?

You Happy Bro?

Stheno

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

He's out now I guess?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-26-jailed-for-life-as-a-teenager-for-hammering-boy-to-death-to-be-released-in-less-than-two-years-30580270.html

He is served 13 years in total.

I'd expect boy A to get a similar sentence there appears to be a lot of similarities between the crimes.

Boy B I am not sure about

Necro

McCrack wrote: »

It's not possible in this jurisdiction to put a sentence consecutive to a life sentence so the sentencing judge will not have that option

Yeah, I figured as much. Really need tougher sentencing laws here in Ireland

Nobelium

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry Son.

The Judge will determine what they get, he has asked for several reports to aide him in the making the decision.

But you want me now without any reports to tell you what they should get and how they should be held?

Impossible I'm afraid.

But sure if it helps your erection, keep them a box for 50 years, then kill them, bury them, dig them up and put their bones in prison?

You Happy Bro?

Yep, that's about your level and standard right enough. Happy to have exposed it again.

Boggles

Nobelium wrote: »

Yep, that's about your level and standard right enough. Happy to have exposed it again.

I'm pretty sure that is the judicial systems standard and by extension the Judge who has been charged with the decision.

What part is actually confusing you, are you okay?

Nobelium

Boggles wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that is the judicial systems standard and by extension the Judge who has been charged with the decision.

What part is actually confusing you, are you okay?

Nothing is. What I'm enjoying is the part where you are too cowardly to give your honest opinion about how much time these murdering scum should serve and under what conditions, and watching you failing to squirm your way out of it.

Boggles

Nobelium wrote: »

Nothing is. What I'm enjoying is the part where you are too cowardly to give your honest opinion about how much time these murdering scum should serve and under what conditions, and watching you failing to squirm your way out of it.

I gave my honest opinion.

What do you think yourself there Chief, what sentence and conditions would you think appropriate?

Maybe get yourself a tissue for the answer.

mrjoneill

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

He's out now I guess?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-26-jailed-for-life-as-a-teenager-for-hammering-boy-to-death-to-be-released-in-less-than-two-years-30580270.html

Life sentence is mandatory for murder the trial judge has no discretion. What is discretionary is the time served in prison. This is at the discretion of the Parole Board. A convicted murder is released on license after that to be on their best behaviour. What I understand with the Children's Act the trial judge can impose a tariff, a recommended time that must be served in prison and bring it back to the courts for review. In the Bulger case the then Brit Home Sec imposed a tariff which was appealed among other issues to the ECHR. Irish Children's Act is framed on that judgement.

Nobelium

Boggles wrote: »

I gave my honest opinion.

What do you think yourself there Chief, what sentence and conditions would you think appropriate?

Maybe get yourself a tissue for the answer.

As predicted, you've repeatedly attempted to avoid the question and have not answered what you were actually asked :

How much time should the murderers of Ana Kriegel serve and under what conditions ?

mrjoneill

Nobelium wrote: »

As predicted, you've repeatedly attempted to avoid the question and have not answered what you were actually asked :

How much time should the murderers of Ana Kriegel serve and under what conditions ?

I believe Boy A will serve a min of 10yrs all going well.
For Boy B prob be out before he is 21 as he is much more manipulative and appears compliant and will adopt to the system much better. Going well he could have a good Leaving Cert and a Open University type degree. He is of the smarts type that though he was too smart for everyone even tried to persuade that 2 CCTV cameras was lying.

iamwhoiam

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kri%C3%A9gel-the-five-things-that-convicted-boys-a-and-b-of-murder-1.3932346


Much of the bullying was about her height, her mother said. Ana was strong and tall, “a typical Siberian”, Geraldine said. She was also bullied about being adopted: other children told her she had “fake parents”.

There was palpable public anger outside the courtroom that this sensitive evidence was being elicited. Why did Boy A and Boy B enjoy anonymity while Ana’s most personal matters were aired in court?

But there was a good reason, the prosecution said. They needed to convey Ana’s vulnerability and need for friendship, because this is what her killers exploited to lure her to Glenwood House. Ana’s face lit up when Boy B called to the door to tell her his friend wanted to see her. She “bounded” out of the house, the prosecution said.

The final reason Geraldine and Patric Kriégel’s evidence was important was that it humanised Ana. All too often in murder trials the victims become an abstract piece of evidence.

Ana’s parents’ description of her personality, hobbies and interests made her a real presence for the jurors, and perhaps allowed them an insight into the thoughts going through her head on her last day alive.

Nobelium

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kri%C3%A9gel-the-five-things-that-convicted-boys-a-and-b-of-murder-1.3932346

Much of the bullying was about her height, her mother said. Ana was strong and tall, “a typical Siberian”, Geraldine said. She was also bullied about being adopted: other children told her she had “fake parents”.

There was palpable public anger outside the courtroom that this sensitive evidence was being elicited. Why did Boy A and Boy B enjoy anonymity while Ana’s most personal matters were aired in court?

But there was a good reason, the prosecution said. They needed to convey Ana’s vulnerability and need for friendship, because this is what her killers exploited to lure her to Glenwood House. Ana’s face lit up when Boy B called to the door to tell her his friend wanted to see her. She “bounded” out of the house, the prosecution said.

The final reason Geraldine and Patric Kriégel’s evidence was important was that it humanised Ana. All too often in murder trials the victims become an abstract piece of evidence.

Ana’s parents’ description of her personality, hobbies and interests made her a real presence for the jurors, and perhaps allowed them an insight into the thoughts going through her head on her last day alive.

As usual the victim and their family are lost in all of this.
Ana and her family got a life sentence, meanwhile all the focus is now on the rights of her murderers, and looking after them and their families instead.

mrjoneill

tayto lover wrote: »

That was an attempt to get the Garda to admit that she suspected Boy A of being involved in Ana’s disappearance and as such the clothes were seized illegally or under a false pretense and any evidence obtained from them would then have been inadmissible. The Garda had her facts right and he got nowhere.

The clothes were not seized in Boy's A boots and Clothes but were asked for and handed over for the investigation of a reported crime on Boy A. A DNA sample was taken at this time too. I don't believe Boy A was a suspect at that time (Ana's was then just a missing person) and even if he was it would have no repercussions. What would be inadmissible is if Boy A was questioned and he was a suspect without being cautioned ie his Miranda Rights. As soon as its apparent the person being questioned is a suspect it must stop and the caution delivered. I see it as play acting by Counsel for Boy B as a form of desperation. Boy A made no incriminating statements and I'm sure he was cautioned when it was apparent he was a suspect.

Suckit

Boy B must have been a really devious little f**ker. 3km he walked with her. She must have been ecstatic. God knows what sh*t he was filling her with/answering her questions.

Jesus.

FFred

Suckit wrote: »

Boy B must have been a really devious little f**ker. 3km he walked with her. She must have been ecstatic. God knows what sh*t he was filling her with/answering her questions.

Jesus.

A disgusting cretin :mad:

tayto lover

Suckit wrote: »

Boy B must have been a really devious little f**ker. 3km he walked with her. She must have been ecstatic. God knows what sh*t he was filling her with/answering her questions.

Jesus.

Agree 100%.
I’m so glad this little s*** was convicted.
Hope he’s inside playing with his f****** LEGO for many many years.


Though I bet he has no interest in LEGO at all.

The Specialist

tayto lover wrote: »

Agree 100%.
I’m so glad this little s*** was convicted.
Hope he’s inside playing with his f****** LEGO for many many years.


Though I bet he has no interest in LEGO at all.

Should be melted down and poured down his ****ing throat.

El_Bee

tayto lover wrote: »

Agree 100%.
I’m so glad this little s*** was convicted.
Hope he’s inside playing with his f****** LEGO for many many years.


Though I bet he has no interest in LEGO at all.

You think he asked for lego to make himself look more childish and innocent?

pablo128

El_Bee wrote: »

You think he asked for lego to make himself look more childish and innocent?

Yes.

Boggles

Asking for lego doesn't make one appear innocent. It just means they like lego.

As for Childish?

He is a child.

It's not like he asked for Peppa Pig.

Nobelium

El_Bee wrote: »

You think he asked for lego to make himself look more childish and innocent?

that and he liked taking the piss

Kidchameleon

All this talk of having A and B hanged, locked up forever, they are "animals", "scum" etc. gets us nowhere. It only serves to placate the mob. The best thing would be for them to serve their sentence, during which time they should be rehabilitated such that they will no longer be a threat to the public. Hopefully they will enter back into society under new identities and be able to contribute something. There has been enough destruction because of this sorry indecent, it is time now to move on and make the best of it that we can. That would be the best way to remember Anna IMHO.

Nobelium

Kidchameleon wrote: »

All this talk of having A and B hanged, locked up forever, they are "animals", "scum" etc. gets us nowhere. It only serves to placate the mob. The best thing would be for them to serve their sentence, during which time they should be rehabilitated such that they will no longer be a threat to the public. Hopefully they will enter back into society under new identities and be able to contribute something. There has been enough destruction because of this sorry indecent, it is time now to move on and make the best of it that we can. That would be the best way to remember Anna IMHO.

yeah it's important to reward them for their efforts and make sure there remains no real deterrent to bullying, torture, sexual abuse and murder of an innocent girl. :rolleyes:

BloodBath

Kidchameleon wrote: »

All this talk of having A and B hanged, locked up forever, they are "animals", "scum" etc. gets us nowhere. It only serves to placate the mob. The best thing would be for them to serve their sentence, during which time they should be rehabilitated such that they will no longer be a threat to the public. Hopefully they will enter back into society under new identities and be able to contribute something. There has been enough destruction because of this sorry indecent, it is time now to move on and make the best of it that we can. That would be the best way to remember Anna IMHO.

You are incredibly naive if you think these animals can be rehabilitated and integrate back into society. Maybe they can move in with you.

Gerianam

That is what I find so heart rending. Ana, the little sweetheart putting on her lovely.new hoodie and heading off happily with that monster.....