Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

GT_TDI_150

OwlsZat wrote: »

A 13 year old couldn't develop thoughts about how "slutty" or unwanted another adopted child had been. It feels like it was born at home. Horribly mistaken beliefs broadcast by parents to a thick child who took them all in and sadly acted on them. Dads court room venting further vindication that really he blames himself. I'd guess he was correct where he put the blame.

So a 13yr old would hear 'adopted' and not think 'her real parents didnt want her'?!

Kids much younger than that would pick up on kids wearing the fake replica football jerseys and make the link the parents must be poor.

Recently talking to a mother in work whose child would go to the last gaa match before her hols incase shed brake a leg and would have a cast on hols meaning one leg wouldnt tan and shed look like a freak to her friends, she is 11.

Kids are super clued in and pick up on any perceived weakness.

IvoryTower

OwlsZat wrote: »

I've heard from parents previously that anyone and anyone can get a total **** head. True or untrue? I feel its more
environmental? Dont be a **** parent don't have ****head child.

Yep and bad parents can also raise great kids, most kids reflect their parenting though imo.

shesty

In the midst of all the posts postulating about how she was strangled, or hit or dragged, I think we should all look at these photos.Published today by the Kriegel family


https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/from-beaming-pink-princess-to-shy-teen-anas-life-in-pictures-38244392.html

She was very beautiful.Growing up to be a stunning girl.Ironically, probably exactly the type of girl that those boys would have chased after in years to come....and hopefully been turned down by.What is wrong with teenagers that they are so afraid of anything different to themselves??

Your heart would break looking at those.Forget those two little.....

Remember her.

iamwhoiam

Beautiful photos shesty and a beautiful family . Anas parents can at least be very proud of her and remember that she was their darling girl .

Larsso30

MrFresh wrote: »

I think it was the other way around. Venables cried every day of the trial and asked that the little boy's mother be told he was sorry.

If memory serves me right

Thompson was seen as the driving force behind the crime, the more evil of the two if you prefer, awful family home etc.

Venables seen as the follower, from the more stable family home. Softer almost

History has shown since their release that their behaviour is contrary to this, Thompson never been in trouble thay we are aware of
Venables the one who has been convicted multiple times for depraved crimes.

volchitsa

shesty wrote: »

In the midst of all the posts postulising about how she was strangled, or hit or dragged, I think we should all look at these photos.Published today by the Kriegel family


https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/from-beaming-pink-princess-to-shy-teen-anas-life-in-pictures-38244392.html

She was very beautiful.Growing up to be a stunning girl.Ironically, probably exactly the type of girl that those boys would have chased after in years to come....and hopefully been turned down by.What is wrong with teenagers that they are so afraid of anything different to themselves??

Your heart would break looking at those.Forget those two little.....

Remember her.

My god her poor parents - my heart is breaking looking st those pictures so what must it be like for them? It's unbearable to even think about it.

Such a sweet, gorgeous girl, and while I know the other teens who bullied her weren't responsible for her murdered - I'm sure they couldn't even have imagined it, I can't help thinking that her isolation was very much part of why she was so vulnerable to them.

Quite apart from the issues with those two boys, I think there's something terribly wrong with our whole culture that we seem to just accept this sort of bullying as inevitable and even natural.

facehugger99

I think there is a desensitising and dehumanising issue with the amount of hardcore pornography that is being accessed by kids today from a very young age right through puberty.

I remember watching a 2 hour French movie on C4 in the 80's to see 3 seconds of side-boob, today the most extreme and violent pornography is a button's click away - It can't be healthy.

volchitsa

Larsso30 wrote: »

If memory serves me right

Thompson was seen as the driving force behind the crime, the more evil of the two if you prefer, awful family home etc.

Venables seen as the follower, from the more stable family home. Softer almost

History has shown since their release that their behaviour is contrary to this, Thompson never been in trouble thay we are aware of
Venables the one who has been convicted multiple times for depraved crimes.

Yes I've been pointing this out too, Venables the "soft, lost, middle class boy from a good family" was seen by almost everyone, including by the psychologists around them as to some extent the victim of the "tougher" lad from a tough background.

In fact it turns out that Thompson was the victim of an abusive family background and was "rescued" from that by being sent to the youth centre. Perhaps he didn't even need "rehabilitation" in the usual sense, he just needed a decent upbringing

I'm not sure what that tells us about intensive work by psychologists on children who commit crimes, or on criminals more generally.

shesty

shesty wrote: »

In the midst of all the posts postulising about how she was strangled, or hit or dragged, I think we should all look at these photos.Published today by the Kriegel family


https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/from-beaming-pink-princess-to-shy-teen-anas-life-in-pictures-38244392.html

She was very beautiful.Growing up to be a stunning girl.Ironically, probably exactly the type of girl that those boys would have chased after in years to come....and hopefully been turned down by.What is wrong with teenagers that they are so afraid of anything different to themselves??

Your heart would break looking at those.Forget those two little.....

Remember her.

Remember her. The most sensible post to date.
Remember her. Her beauty. Her youth. Her potential. Remember her.

SirChenjin

Deleted User wrote: »

Remember her. The most sensible post to date.
Remember her. Her beauty. Her youth. Her potential. Remember her.

That is the point that some of us have made throughout the thread. Ana was so beautiful, and so very deeply loved. This was evident in everything that her parents said about her.

May she rest in peace, poor innocent child.

shamrock55

It's times like this I really wish this country had the death sentence, just rid society once and for all of this evil scumb and save tax payers to boot

MrFresh

Larsso30 wrote: »

If memory serves me right

Thompson was seen as the driving force behind the crime, the more evil of the two if you prefer, awful family home etc.

Venables seen as the follower, from the more stable family home. Softer almost

History has shown since their release that their behaviour is contrary to this, Thompson never been in trouble thay we are aware of
Venables the one who has been convicted multiple times for depraved crimes.

I think the guilt whole think just broke Venables completely. He's just completely messed up now, more so than he was. He'll never be right on the outside.

Suckit

I can't help wondering to what extent was Ana spoken about by the local boys in the area.
4 older boys surrounded her one night comng home from helping at a teeny tots disco and asking her for sex and one patted her on the bum.
When she got home, her mother had to comfort her for an hour to calm her down as she was so shaken by it.

Kidchameleon

shamrock55 wrote: »

It's times like this I really wish this country had the death sentence, just rid society once and for all of this evil scumb and save tax payers to boot

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

Hopefully they will both live to ripe old ages. Plenty of time for them to reflect on their actions.

gozunda

volchitsa wrote: »

My god her poor parents - my heart is breaking looking st those pictures so what must it be like for them? It's unbearable to even think about it.

Such a sweet, gorgeous girl, and while I know the other teens who bullied her weren't responsible for her murdered - I'm sure they couldn't even have imagined it, I can't help thinking that her isolation was very much part of why she was so vulnerable to them.

Quite apart from the issues with those two boys, I think there's something terribly wrong with our whole culture that we seem to just accept this sort of bullying as inevitable and even natural.

I really do hope that every child or teenager who was involved in bullying Ana hangs their head in shame and perhaps from this tragedy hopefully begin to understand the effects of bullying and social isolation. Also those others who may not have been involved but who knew but who did nothing to intervene or put a stop to the deliberate and systematic bullying.

And the same of all of us who learn of Ana's story. Bullying destroys peoples health and their lives. In this case I believe it lead to murder.

Larsso30

Larsso30 wrote: »

If memory serves me right

Thompson was seen as the driving force behind the crime, the more evil of the two if you prefer, awful family home etc.

Venables seen as the follower, from the more stable family home. Softer almost

History has shown since their release that their behaviour is contrary to this, Thompson never been in trouble thay we are aware of
Venables the one who has been convicted multiple times for depraved crimes.

I was chatting recently about this very thing. Its possible that the reason Thompson went on to live a fairly quiet life is because he is a psychopath ie without conscience. Venables on the other hand was destroyed by what he did and will never live a 'normal' life.

tuxy

shamrock55 wrote: »

It's times like this I really wish this country had the death sentence, just rid society once and for all of this evil scumb and save tax payers to boot

How about a compromise? Sharia law for some, miniature Irish flags for others?

shamrock55

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

The thing is they don't deserve rehabilitation or to contribute, they've contributed quite enough for one lifetime, you do that at 13 then your well beyond help

briany

I fully concur with the prevailing sentiment on this thread that the killing of Ana Kriegel was a crime of the highest brutality and senselessness and that the perpetrators should be punished to the full extent of the law. Not too much more I can add, there.

What I have been wondering, as a slight aside to the case, is how exactly the two boys, particularly Boy A, planned to get away with this horrible murder. What was their thinking regarding the aftermath?

A) Being arrested, charged and convicted did not factor into their plans. They certainly didn't treat these events as a matter of course. They didn't even appear to make much of an attempt to get their stories straight.

Per Boy B's statements to Gardaí, it appears that the attack and target were being planned at least a month in advance, so that rules out the idea of it being a prank gone wrong or a moment of madness.

I know that as well as being seriously morally deficient, they were also 13 and can't be expected to have much common sense, but I'd like to think that at 13, I'd have had an awareness of things like fingerprints and the fact that forensics can be used to link a criminal to the crime. Perhaps 13 year olds these days are even more naive than I think, or maybe these two boys, or one boy, had a monumental arrogance about the plan.

Skyknight

tuxy wrote: »

How about a compromise? Sharia law for some, miniature Irish flags for others?

I think what shamrock55 is suggesting is that the punishment should fit the crime... Spare the rod, and spoil the child. In other words they should be denied what that they have denied their victim.

gozunda

briany wrote: »

I fully concur with the prevailing sentiment on this thread that the killing of Ana Kriegel was a crime of the highest brutality and senselessness and that the perpetrators should be punished to the full extent of the law. Not too much more I can add, there.

What I have been wondering, as a slight aside to the case, is how exactly the two boys, particularly Boy A, planned to get away with this horrible murder. What was their thinking regarding the aftermath?

A) Being arrested, charged and convicted did not factor into their plans. They certainly didn't treat these events as a matter of course. They didn't even appear to make much of an attempt to get their stories straight.

Per Boy B's statements to Gardaí, it appears that the attack and target were being planned at least a month in advance, so that rules out the idea of it being a prank gone wrong or a moment of madness.

I know that as well as being seriously morally deficient, they were also 13 and can't be expected to have much common sense, but I'd like to think that at 13, I'd have had an awareness of things like fingerprints and the fact that forensics can be used to link a criminal to the crime. Perhaps 13 year olds these days are even more naive than I think, or maybe these two boys, or one boy, had a monumental arrogance about the plan.

I get the sense that the boys really thought their lies would be believed - that Ana was abducted / attacked in the park. Now maybe it is the case that both teenagers were used to getting away with telling lies to their parents and being believed and this set them up to think others would do the same.

What they didn't take into account that their victim would fight back and inflict injuries on one of the two boys and that the Gardai and others would see through the bull****e they had connected by way of an explanation as to what happened..

It's unfortunate that despite the evidence and testimony gathered by the gardai and the deliberations of the court - at least one of the boys parents still refuse to believe that their little angel could do anything of the kind.

briany

Skyknight wrote: »

I think what shamrock55 is suggesting is that the punishment should fit the crime... Spare the rod, and spoil the child. In other words they should be denied what that they have denied their victim.

I'd be more anti-death penalty these days, but if they get to Oberstown or wherever they're going, one of their fellow inmates might oblige on that front, or perhaps they'll even oblige themselves, should life there be too stressful.

Collie D

briany wrote: »

I'd be more anti-death penalty these days, but if they get to Oberstown or wherever they're going, one of their fellow inmates might oblige on that front, or perhaps they'll even oblige themselves, should life there be too stressful.

Do you really want to live in a society where other convicted criminals act as our moral compass and get to decide punishments?

briany

Collie D wrote: »

Do you really want to live in a society where other convicted criminals act as our moral compass and get to decide punishments?

Not really, but I was saying that the quoted poster's wish might come true, just not via direct means of the state. I would imagine that if these boys become identifiable in the institution(s) in which they're held, they are going to end up having something of a target on their back.

washman3

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

Totally mesmerised when I read comments like this. Angry even.
For anyone to believe that this level of pure evil can be 'helped' or rehabilitated is mind boggling.
As for 'making every resource we have available to them' there are many,many far more deserving causes that these resources should be directed to.
I for one am horrified that even a single cent of my tax will be spent on these pair of oxygen wasters. I firmly believe that they will never contribute anything back to society and no time or money should be spent on trying to do so. So far they are totally remorseless and I believe they always will be.
I often wonder if it's attitudes like yours that causes evil creatures to exist in the first place.
Have you mentioned anywhere any consideration for Ana's family.?
They should be priority now, not these evil scum.

mrjoneill

shesty wrote: »

In the midst of all the posts postulating about how she was strangled, or hit or dragged, I think we should all look at these photos.Published today by the Kriegel family


https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/from-beaming-pink-princess-to-shy-teen-anas-life-in-pictures-38244392.html

She was very beautiful.Growing up to be a stunning girl.Ironically, probably exactly the type of girl that those boys would have chased after in years to come....and hopefully been turned down by.What is wrong with teenagers that they are so afraid of anything different to themselves??

Your heart would break looking at those.Forget those two little.....

Remember her.

There was never an issue of how stunning Ana was, teenagers 15-16 were constantly accosting her to have sex with. That does not happen to the unattractive girl but what was different here is teenagers knew she was naive and hoped this would be sufficient for them to engage in sex with her. Ana went in all her naivety to meet Boy A believing she would have some kissing with him and make friends with him. I don't believe any other girl of that peer group would have gone along with Boy B enticing. I don't believe teenage boys do go around propositioning their peer group to have sex with them out of the blue. I would believe Boy A peers looked on him as the alpha male of the group. Boy B stated he was afraid of him. The park ranger though he was over 16, his father stated to the park ranger he was more than capable of looking after himself.

Suckit

gozunda wrote: »

at least one of the boys parents still refuse to believe that their little angel could do anything of the kind.

That same parent seems to be the only of all the parents who distanced himself as much as possible from anything to do with the case, from as early on as when Ana was just deemed missing.

Horrible all around, but Ana's parents must have known from the start that the little scrotes had done something when she was missing. I doubt they ever suspected something as heinous.

I don't believe that either can be rehabilitated. Not for something like this.
They had planned it for quite some time in advance.
They both seem to be evil little f**kers in their own way.

Suckit

mrjoneill wrote: »

There was never an issue of how stunning Ana was, teenagers 15-16 were constantly accosting her to have sex with. That does not happen to the unattractive girl but what was different here is teenagers knew she was naive and hoped this would be sufficient for them to engage in sex with her. Ana went in all her naivety to meet Boy A believing she would have some kissing with him and make friends with him. I don't believe any other girl of that peer group would have gone along with Boy B enticing. I don't believe teenage boys do go around propositioning their peer group to have sex with them out of the blue. I would believe Boy A peers looked on him as the alpha male of the group. Boy B stated he was afraid of him. The park ranger though he was over 16, his father stated to the park ranger he was more than capable of looking after himself.

I don't believe Boy B was afraid of Boy A.

abff

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

I find the emphasising of the word children very inappropriate as it somehow humanises these evil creatures and implies a level of innocence that is clearly not present.