Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

splinter65

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Of course I feel sympathy for Geraldine and Patrick. I am happy that the state has done everything we can for them and will continue to do so.

But...

These boys, A & B are still human beings. Of course they need punishment. But they also need help so that their lives are not completely destroyed. Theres no point in that. This amount of revenge porn is sickening. Also keep in mind, they have familys that are effected by their actions. Should they have to lose their child/brother/grandson aswell? Why should they suffer? I can fully understand and forgive B's dad's outburst in the courtroom. It must have been a gruelling process for him aswell.

A & B are just children at the end of the day, very misguided and broken. We need to help them rebuild their lives as best we can. That way everyone gets the most benefit - including the Kreigels.

You haven’t expressed any sympathy for the victims family or any horror at the fact that an innocent child lies in a grave until it’s been pointed out to you that your sympathy is all for her killers and their families.
The innocent dead girls destroyed parents were sitting feet away from boy bs father trying to console one another after listening to the details of how boy a butchered their child, when he had his petulant self entitled foul mouthed outburst.
And you sympathise with him, but can’t find any sympathy for Ana’s father, who I’m sure would love to have reached out and grabbed at either boy at any stage over the previous 6 weeks.
Tell me something kidchameleon if Ana’s father had got some digs in on either boy would you also be understanding of him or would that be unacceptable out of control thuggery?

Kidchameleon

splinter65 wrote: »

You haven’t expressed any sympathy for the victims family or any horror at the fact that an innocent child lies in a grave until it’s been pointed out to you that your sympathy is all for her killers and their families.
The innocent dead girls destroyed parents were sitting feet away from boy bs father trying to console one another after listening to the details of how boy a butchered their child, when he had his petulant self entitled foul mouthed outburst.
And you sympathise with him, but can’t find any sympathy for Ana’s father, who I’m sure would love to have reached out and grabbed at either boy at any stage over the previous 6 weeks.
Tell me something kidchameleon if Ana’s father had got some digs in on either boy would you also be understanding of him or would that be unacceptable out of control thuggery?

I have expressed sympathy for the Kreigels, read the thread.

And yes, I would understand if Patrick lashed out. He is human after all, the same as B's dad.

FFred

Kidchameleon wrote: »

And yes, I would understand if Patrick lashed out. He is human after all, the same as B's dad.

Wow. Just wow.

You are either that simple-minded or else you are someone who is taking some sick twisted pleasure in trolling one of the most serious and saddest threads that has ever appeared on boards. Shame on you .

I’m out.

mrjoneill

Dht wrote: »

When she entered the room she was hit by a plank which had nails embedded either end.. after disabling her she was dragged across the room towards the window so the light was better.. she was strangled by tape (given by boy b from his garage)... when she was found 3 fingers were inside the tape trying to get it off. She was struck over & over by the edge /point of a concrete block. My heart goes out to Ana... many would have been finished by being hit by a wooden plank with nails embedded..she fought back so hard.. the last thing she saw was a horrific mask towering over her. How her family & the boys family can go on ... I just don’t know

Boy B repeatedly lied on this point about Ana being assaulted while standing and stated that Ana was knocked with a judo move by Boy A. Forensic blood spatter indicate she was battered when standing. Why does he lie about this?

SirGerryAdams

mrjoneill wrote: »

Boy B repeatedly lied on this point about Ana being assaulted while standing and stated that Ana was knocked with a judo move by Boy A. Forensic blood spatter indicate she was battered when standing. Why does he lie about this?

I wonder how it was possible she fought back despite getting attacked with weapons.

And I wonder when he put the tape on her.

Greyfox

Kidchameleon wrote: »

A & B are just children at the end of the day, very misguided and broken. We need to help them rebuild their lives as best we can.

There evil little Sh**heads and a danger to society, calling them animals would be insulting to animals. rehabilitation might not be possible anyway, keeping them locked up for as long as possible is all that matters for now

iamwhoiam

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Of course I feel sympathy for Geraldine and Patrick. I am happy that the state has done everything we can for them and will continue to do so.

But...

These boys, A & B are still human beings. Of course they need punishment. But they also need help so that their lives are not completely destroyed. Theres no point in that. This amount of revenge porn is sickening. Also keep in mind, they have familys that are effected by their actions. Should they have to lose their child/brother/grandson aswell? Why should they suffer? I can fully understand and forgive B's dad's outburst in the courtroom. It must have been a gruelling process for him aswell.

A & B are just children at the end of the day, very misguided and broken. We need to help them rebuild their lives as best we can. That way everyone gets the most benefit - including the Kreigels.

We all have an opinion about this sad case and everyones opinion is valid . But one point in your post shows a lack of empathy towards the Kriégel family
Boy B’s father showed not one ounce of sorrow or empathy for Ana or her mother or her family . When he stood in court and cursed the detectives he was shouting in front of a family who’s girl was brutally murdered . Nothing can forgive that in my opinion

And I think the Kriegels are the best judges about what benefits them . Its not your call to know that. You do not get to have an opinion on their behalf

Once again the victim gets lost in the rush to protect the murderer . How very sad that you can even think like that

mrjoneill

Suckit wrote: »

https://www.oberstown.com/campus-stats/




It will definitely be a shock to them.

I don't know about the background of these boys families, but assuming they came from fairly decent families, they will get some surprise when they realise they have to stay there for the forseeable future.

Oberstown is the only juvenile detention place in Irl. St Patrick's attached to Mountjoy has been shut with a few yrs. But there are a few Special Care Units operated by Tusla for troubled children and often send there by the courts on specific instructions by the judges that they don’t want them going to Oberstown. Oberstown can’t have Boy A and Boy B associating. English authorities ensured that Venerable and Thompson never met again following their trial. This they were emphatic about it. In England they have a few juvenile detention centres so it was easier to do. Oberstown has full education facilities with a full leaving certificate curriculum. While it’s the policy of such teenage detention places to allow “prisoner” association such can’t take place allowing Boy A and Boy B associating. It will need rethinking for them.

mrjoneill

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

I wonder how it was possible she fought back despite getting attacked with weapons.

And I wonder when he put the tape on her.

She was cornered she had to do what she had to do to try to get free. She was a big strong fit girl. I would imagine this was the time Boy A got his injuries before he moved in to knock her to the ground. I don't believe Boy A was her only attacker and Boy B played an actual part in this in either restraining her or impeding her escape. The room where she was attacked had a door and a window so wonder why she was unable to escape except both her attackers blocked both. As for the application of the tape I would imagine this despicable gruesome cruel act was done while she was incapacitated in an attempt to choke her to finally kill her. I don't know if this was a plan in bringing the tape for but I suspect the tape was for to tie her up while Boy A raped her.

Kidchameleon

iamwhoiam wrote: »

We all have an opinion about this sad case and everyones opinion is valid

Totally agree with you there.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

But one point in your post shows a lack of empathy towards the Kriégel family
Boy B’s father showed not one ounce of sorrow or empathy for Ana or her mother or her family . When he stood in court and cursed the detectives he was shouting in front of a family who’s girl was brutally murdered . Nothing can forgive that in my opinion

There is no shortage of sympathy towards the Kreigels and rightly so but there is a distinct lack of sympathy towards A & B's familys. Lets not forget, there are three familys destroyed because of this tragedy. I cannot blame B's dad for his actions in the court room. He has just seen his son charged with murder. Not everyone is going to be cool, calm and collected at a time like that. The poor man, im sure he regrets that outburst. He will never get a chance to apologise for it either, at least publicly due to the mob mentality in this country.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

And I think the Kriegels are the best judges about what benefits them . Its not your call to know that. You do not get to have an opinion on their behalf

I have said I hope the state gives them what ever they need. At mine and other tax payers expense. Im not sure how that can be considered "having an opinion on their behalf"

Calltocall

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Of course I feel sympathy for Geraldine and Patrick. I am happy that the state has done everything we can for them and will continue to do so.

But...

These boys, A & B are still human beings. Of course they need punishment. But they also need help so that their lives are not completely destroyed. Theres no point in that. This amount of revenge porn is sickening. Also keep in mind, they have familys that are effected by their actions. Should they have to lose their child/brother/grandson aswell? Why should they suffer? I can fully understand and forgive B's dad's outburst in the courtroom. It must have been a gruelling process for him aswell.

A & B are just children at the end of the day, very misguided and broken. We need to help them rebuild their lives as best we can. That way everyone gets the most benefit - including the Kreigels.

That response is very big of you, I wonder if you lost someone in circumstances like Ana to two animals would you say the same thing, no, you wouldn’t, like I said before boys b father should be ashamed of himself, instead of being a parent and making his son confess his crime he entertained his sons bull**** charade trying to throw the guards off until his lies eventually entrapped him and he couldn’t weasel out, then the father lashes out at the guards for doing their job for catching his murderer son, a great father indeed.

gctest50

mrjoneill wrote: »

,..,............

. It will need rethinking for them.

Indeed, build a gallows out the front

SirGerryAdams

mrjoneill wrote: »

She was cornered she had to do what she had to do to try to get free. She was a big strong fit girl. I would imagine this was the time Boy A got his injuries before he moved in to knock her to the ground. I don't believe Boy A was her only attacker and Boy B played an actual part in this in either restraining her or impeding her escape. The room where she was attacked had a door and a window so wonder why she was unable to escape except both her attackers blocked both. As for the application of the tape I would imagine this despicable gruesome cruel act was done while she was incapacitated in an attempt to choke her to finally kill her. I don't know if this was a plan in bringing the tape for but I suspect the tape was for to tie her up while Boy A raped her.

So hard to comprehend because I couldn't imagine myself being able to fight back against someone after getting struck in the head.

I remember I got kneed in the face in a match before and I couldn't see anything.

You'd have to think why he would need the tape at all considering he hit her over the head with the brick several times too...

Little scumbags never told the truth.

iamwhoiam

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Totally agree with you there.



There is no shortage of sympathy towards the Kreigels and rightly so but there is a distinct lack of sympathy towards A & B's familys. Lets not forget, there are three familys destroyed because of this tragedy. I cannot blame B's dad for his actions in the court room. He has just seen his son charged with murder. Not everyone is going to be cool, calm and collected at a time like that. The poor man, im sure he regrets that outburst. He will never get a chance to apologise for it either, at least publicly due to the mob mentality in this country.



lf"

I see what you are doing on this thread and I for one will not bite

Kidchameleon

Calltocall wrote: »

That response is very big of you, I wonder if you lost someone in circumstances like Ana to two animals would you say the same thing, no, you wouldn’t, .

If I found myself in that position I would hope I would act rationally. Some posters here have openly admitted they would have no problem becoming murderers in that situation. That is not me... like I have said, all three familys in this tragic case have been destroyed

Calltocall wrote: »

boys b father should be ashamed of himself, instead of being a parent and making his son confess his crime he entertained his sons bull**** charade trying to throw the guards off until his lies eventually entrapped him and he couldn’t weasel out, then the father lashes out at the guards for doing their job for catching his murderer son, a great father indeed.

He is a decent parent IMHO, supporting his child under any circumstances. That is the job a good parent, unconditional love. As I have said, he is probably regretful of his outburst but because of the mob mentality he will never be able to publicly express that regret.

Kidchameleon

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I see what you are doing on this thread and I for one will not bite

Thats fine I dont want to start a war. Look, there are three familys destroyed this week. Someone needs to speak up for the two forgotten ones here. There are posts on this thread saying A & B's familys should be punished, that is just not acceptable

KathleenGrant

I have experience of KidChameleon in anther thread. He is either a troll, totally lacking in empathy or worse (I won't say what or I could be banned) Don't even bother engaging with him/her.

tayto lover

It’s disgusting how anyone can troll in a thread like this.

Road-Hog

Did I read that one of the defense barristers put forward a scenario to the jury that the sexual interaction between boy A and Ana may have been consensual......,? Such a warped and clutching st straws argument....how could they bring themselves go on record of saying such a thing in front of a jury and the court given the extent of gruesome injuries that the poor girl received.......I just can’t understand how some pompous wigged huffing and puffing ‘me lurd’ arrogant barrister would have the neck to come out with something like this.

Road-Hog

tayto lover wrote: »

It’s disgusting how anyone can troll in a thread like this.

‘Chameleon’ being part of his/her pseudo- name is a dead give away of troll activities......!!

mrjoneill

Road-Hog wrote: »

Did I read that one of the defense barristers put forward a scenario to the jury that the sexual interaction between boy A and Ana may have been consensual......,? Such a warped and clutching st straws argument....how could they bring themselves go on record of saying such a thing in front of a jury and the court given the extent of gruesome injuries that the poor girl received.......I just can’t understand how some pompous wigged huffing and puffing ‘me lurd’ arrogant barrister would have the neck to come out with something like this.

I don't recall that but Boy B in the video interviews state Ana raised her hands for Boy A to strip her. Gardai quickly put that to bed telling him her clothes were violently ripped off her.

Hannibal_Smith

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Thats fine I dont want to start a war. Look, there are three familys destroyed this week. Someone needs to speak up for the two forgotten ones here. There are posts on this thread saying A & B's familys should be punished, that is just not acceptable

No. There is one family destroyed. The family of Boy A and Boy B still have their sons. They can still talk to them, see them and comfort them. Ana's family can do none of that.

What Boy A and B brought on their families may have caused their families suffering and anguish, but its nothing compared to what the Kreigels are suffering through.

Your daughter attacked, beaten, killed and left in a horrible abandoned house, like she was a piece of meat. I can't think of a worse thing to happen to a family.

mrjoneill

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Thats fine I dont want to start a war. Look, there are three familys destroyed this week. Someone needs to speak up for the two forgotten ones here. There are posts on this thread saying A & B's familys should be punished, that is just not acceptable

The victim is Ana and her family. Ana was innocently led to her death by 2 who put themselves in that position. As for their respective families they obv gave no consideration of that when they did the crime.

Kidchameleon

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

No. There is one family destroyed. The family of Boy A and Boy B still have their sons. They can still talk to them, see them and comfort them. Ana's family can do none of that.

What Boy A and B brought on their families may have caused their families suffering and anguish, but its nothing compared to what the Kreigels are suffering through.

Your daughter attacked, beaten, killed and left in a horrible abandoned house, like she was a piece of meat. I can't think of a worse thing to happen to a family.

Totally agree with you there, the Kreigels situation is far far worse. Where we would disagree though is I would consider having my son/brother/grandson locked up for life as well as the stigma of his actions to be a symptom of a destroyed family.

8-10

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I can fully understand and forgive B's dad's outburst in the courtroom. It must have been a gruelling process for him aswell.

He said:

“Innocent kid in f***ing prison,” “Are you proud of your victory?”

When you say you fully understand his outburst, do you think he was saying the kid was innocent because of the stress of the gruelling process and he's well aware that his son is guilty?

Or do you think that he genuinely believes his son didn't do it?

dudara

tayto lover wrote: »

It’s disgusting how anyone can troll in a thread like this.

Road-Hog wrote: »

‘Chameleon’ being part of his/her pseudo- name is a dead give away of troll activities......!!

Knock off the accusations of trolling in thread. Use the Report Post function to bring it to mod attention. And bear in mind that contrary opinion to your own may not automatically equal trolling.

dudara

mrjoneill

Kidchameleon wrote: »

If I found myself in that position I would hope I would act rationally. Some posters here have openly admitted they would have no problem becoming murderers in that situation. That is not me... like I have said, all three familys in this tragic case have been destroyed



He is a decent parent IMHO, supporting his child under any circumstances. That is the job a good parent, unconditional love. As I have said, he is probably regretful of his outburst but because of the mob mentality he will never be able to publicly express that regret.

I don't agree, that is in the support of wrongdoing. Good parents stand on right no matter the circumstances. Giving support to their offspring does not include support for criminality.

Kidchameleon

Road-Hog wrote: »

Did I read that one of the defense barristers put forward a scenario to the jury that the sexual interaction between boy A and Ana may have been consensual......,? Such a warped and clutching st straws argument....how could they bring themselves go on record of saying such a thing in front of a jury and the court given the extent of gruesome injuries that the poor girl received.......I just can’t understand how some pompous wigged huffing and puffing ‘me lurd’ arrogant barrister would have the neck to come out with something like this.

I dont remember reading that but I would not be surprised if it is true. It is the job of any barrister to do everything to get their client off the hook. It is an essential element of any functioning legal system - the right to a defense. Calling them a "pompous wigged huffing and puffing ‘me lurd’ arrogant barrister" is not fair however. Look, I'm sure they know their client was guilty, but it is their duty to anything and everything to help their client. Its a tough gig, hence the heft pay packet. I personally would not have the neck to do it but I respect those who do. They are there to make sure justice is served fairly - a pretty honorable duty IMHO.

Kidchameleon

8-10 wrote: »

He said:

“Innocent kid in f***ing prison,” “Are you proud of your victory?”

When you say you fully understand his outburst, do you think he was saying the kid was innocent because of the stress of the gruelling process and he's well aware that his son is guilty?

Or do you think that he genuinely believes his son didn't do it?

Honestly I don't know what was going through the poor mans head in that situation. I don't think any of us will ever find ourselves in such a horrible situation thankfully. The dad could genuinely think his son is innocent of murder but guilty of a lesser crime. So saying he is an "innocent child" is possibly not an inaccurate statement from his perspective.

Hannibal_Smith

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Totally agree with you there, the Kreigels situation is far far worse. Where we would disagree though is I would consider having my son/brother/grandson locked up for life as well as the stigma of his actions to be a symptom of a destroyed family.

If they admitted what they did and had some sort of remorse about it, maybe I might agree. But they have done neither.