Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

dudara

volchitsa wrote: »

EDIT: I've just seen the post by Iamwhoiam which confirms my scepticism. The notion that they would be searching for her for days without having thought to search any of the known teenage haunts is crazy, TBH.

That is one thought that went through my head when I read the IT article. If the house was a known teenage haunt, surely it would make sense to go there relatively quickly?

The only argument that I can come up with is that searches are done in a structured way with patterns and grids, so that evidence can be tracked and traced. Therefore they would get to the house when the search got that far.

That, or the house wasn’t really that well known at all.

tayto lover

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Would probably be the most common area in <SNIP> for youths to go hang out, go for a chat, drink cans etc.. , if you were from here you’d realise its just media sensationalism on this element of it.

At 13 years old in secondary school , status is everything , if the ‘weird girl’ being in to you and it heing known about would be a cause of frustration, if you wanted to sort it out you sure as hell wouldnt be doing it in school or where people might get the idea youre together.

If everyone really thinks back to when they were 13, especially lads here , if your mate came up to you and said ‘here will you go get yer one so i can tell her to stop telling people she likes me ‘ and asked to meet in the local spot that youths go to in your respective town (distance irrelevant) , you probably wouldnt think twice about it as a 13 year old. Its stupid now but at 13 that kind of thing is important.

Really important.
So why have your bag with your murder kit there?
Your big stick with nails, your tape and your mask to hide behind?

Yeah. All normal kit for a 13 year old I’m sure.

threeball

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Would probably be the most common area in <SNIP> for youths to go hang out, go for a chat, drink cans etc.. , if you were from here you’d realise its just media sensationalism on this element of it.

At 13 years old in secondary school , status is everything , if the ‘weird girl’ being in to you and it heing known about would be a cause of frustration, if you wanted to sort it out you sure as hell wouldnt be doing it in school or where people might get the idea youre together.

If everyone really thinks back to when they were 13, especially lads here , if your mate came up to you and said ‘here will you go get yer one so i can tell her to stop telling people she likes me ‘ and asked to meet in the local spot that youths go to in your respective town (distance irrelevant) , you probably wouldnt think twice about it as a 13 year old. Its stupid now but at 13 that kind of thing is important.

Are you Boy B's auld fella? That ship has sailed

Kidchameleon

threeball wrote: »

Are you Boy B's auld fella? That ship has sailed

Have a bit of respect for his dad, how would you feel if people joked about Patrick Kreigel?

Eric Cartman

tayto lover wrote: »

Really important.
So why have your bag with your murder kit there?
Your big stick with nails, your tape and your mask to hide behind?

Yeah. All normal kit for a 13 year old I’m sure.

Thats all boy A who every single person on the planet accepts is intentionally guilty of murder. There is nothing normal or acceptable about what that kid did at all and nobody is making any odds with the quite correct conviction that he received.

Collie D

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Have a bit of respect for his dad, how would you feel if people joked about Patrick Kreigel?

I’m not part of the group who believes in publicly hounding the family or treating them like criminals because of their son but his actions after the verdict barely merit “respect” and certainly not in comparison to the Kriegel family who have carried themselves with great dignity during an ordeal and time for them I can only imagine.

LiamoSail

Neither Boy A or Boy B have ever told the truth about what happened. If either set of parents had any decency, they'd have got the truth out of them regardless of what the legal advice was.

LiamoSail

Reading the discussion of whether Boy B is guilty of murder, on top of the evidence against him and his seeming indifference following her going missing, I'd speculate that his demeanour in interview betrayed him, hence why the court was shown the video of his interview rather than just the transcript.

Balagan1

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Have a bit of respect for his dad, how would you feel if people joked about Patrick Kreigel?

Respect is key and one way to show it is to use the very widely available names of the victim and her family.

The victim's name was Ana, short for Anastasia.
Her father's name is Patric.
Their family name is Kriegel.

tayto lover

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats all boy A who every single person on the planet accepts is intentionally guilty of murder. There is nothing normal or acceptable about what that kid did at all and nobody is making any odds with the quite correct conviction that he received.

Good.
Now Boy B.

Was told Boy A wanted to murder Ana.

* supplied the tape which was found around her neck.
* called for a girl he didn’t like and had little previous dealings with.
* takes Ana 3 km to meet her murderer, could have met outside her home, school or anywhere convenient.
* lies continually about what occurred, 9 changes of story.
* watches the police search for Ana, says nothing.
* knew the final position in the room of Ana’s body despite saying he had left the scene earlier. Very important.
* never, even up to now, has told the truth.
* still continued to sully her name
* and “the look” between both boys when one had deviated from the agreed script. The detectives knew then they were BOTH involved.

Guilty unanimously in the eyes of the jury. Not one member thought he was innocent. Very telling.

Suckit

Boy B was also very calm at the door the same evening when the Gardaí showed up. Calm enough that they didn't suspect anything.
Also weird was that Boy A described them as best friends, whereas Boy B claimed he was a little more than an acquaintance.

splinter65

Eric Cartman wrote: »

He said she dressed slutty, hardly “i want her dead” material.

This 3km from the house business is a nonsense, that park would be a very common spot for youths to hang out there from Ana’s estate. It would be quire common for people to walk close by that building as its on a popular walking route. People acting like they brought her to some far off no mans land that nobody ever visits.

The kid has definitely through his own intention or as a patsy become embroiled in this , but what helps nobody is this rampant speculation about perfectly normal things 13 year old boys do like hang out in parks , like masks , lend people tape and say not so nice things about how teenage girls dress as definitive murderous traits.

I 100% bet you wouldnt find a 13-14 year old lad in the land who hasnt called somebody a weirdo/loner or commented on the way a girl dresses and hasn’t been interested in hanging out with some lad who has brought a samurai sword or some other weapon back from moore street / holidays. Lets not start pretending that every 13 year old boy doing 13 year old boy things is suddenly 80% of the way to being a murderer

We’re not talking about a gang of boys sitting on a wall chatting.
He was in a Garda station. Accompanied by his mother and a solicitor. Being interviewed regarding the brutal murder and sexual assault of a 13 year old girl. He was the last person in the company of this girl.
And he refers to this dead child as slutty and uses other derogatory terms to describe her. He's apparently not concerned about the circumstances he finds himself in. He knows she’s dead, murdered. He actually saw her being murdered. He brought her to be murdered.
And you think referring to her in a derogatory manner was normal?

SirGerryAdams

tayto lover wrote: »

Good.
Now Boy B.

Was told Boy A wanted to murder Ana.

* supplied the tape which was found around her neck.
* called for a girl he didn’t like and had little previous dealings with.
* takes Ana 3 km to meet her murderer, could have met outside her home, school or anywhere convenient.
* lies continually about what occurred, 9 changes of story.
* watches the police search for Ana, says nothing.
* knew the final position in the room of Ana’s body despite saying he had left the scene earlier. Very important.
* never, even up to now, has told the truth.
* still continued to sully her name

Guilty unanimously in the eyes of the jury. Not one member thought he was innocent. Very telling.

You also have to take into account Boy A asking Boy B to bring her there.

Boy A clearly and obviously planned to attack her.

Boy A was clever enough to not be seen to be the one bringing her to the house, so he was surely clever enough not to ask a completely innocent boy to bring her there where he would risk Boy B seeing his attack and then revealing all to his parents right away!

I do wonder if it was a sex attack gone wrong....maybe Boy A completely lost it when Ana hurt him.

mrjoneill

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Would probably be the most common area in <SNIP> for youths to go hang out, go for a chat, drink cans etc.. , if you were from here you’d realise its just media sensationalism on this element of it.

At 13 years old in secondary school , status is everything , if the ‘weird girl’ being in to you and it heing known about would be a cause of frustration, if you wanted to sort it out you sure as hell wouldnt be doing it in school or where people might get the idea youre together.

If everyone really thinks back to when they were 13, especially lads here , if your mate came up to you and said ‘here will you go get yer one so i can tell her to stop telling people she likes me ‘ and asked to meet in the local spot that youths go to in your respective town (distance irrelevant) , you probably wouldnt think twice about it as a 13 year old. Its stupid now but at 13 that kind of thing is important.

I would imagine it increases a teenager "street cred" to have someone infatuated by them. Ana was a very attractive girl as testified by those older boys who propositioned her for sex. Ana was not killed because she got infatuated with someone that could not handle the "embarrassment". Boy A could have told her at any time he wasn't interested. As for Boy B he could have passed on his friends wishes any time, he did not have to bring her 3km to an isolated abandoned house to do it. He knew full well Boy A attitude towards her so an innocent explanation just doesn't run. Thinking back to when I was 13 it definitely was never in my mind to inflict or standby while such an appalling category of injuries was caused to someone as listed in the autopsy
https://www.thejournal.ie/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-day-8-4626078-May2019/

And both Boy A and Boy B continued to function without a problem only the blame that was being placed on them after it. Both are very sick teenagers.

MrFresh

dudara wrote: »

That is one thought that went through my head when I read the IT article. If the house was a known teenage haunt, surely it would make sense to go there relatively quickly?

The only argument that I can come up with is that searches are done in a structured way with patterns and grids, so that evidence can be tracked and traced. Therefore they would get to the house when the search got that far.

That, or the house wasn’t really that well known at all.

if you were looking for a small child you would probably start with searches like that. If you're looking for a teenager with no indications of harm you would be more focused on a runaway so bus and train cctv, contacting known friends and family, checking shopping and transport hubs and examining electronic devices would be priority.


You also have to remember that both boys and one of the fathers had given false information to the Gardaí at this stage so there was no reason to believe she was hurt, just upset. I think it was Boy A's father gave them a false lead when he met a Garda in the park that day.

Omackeral

Kidchameleon wrote: »

how would you feel if people joked about Patrick Kreigel?

Do you mean like calling him Ana's ''Dad'' like you did. You're shameless, whether you're on the wind up or not.

Omackeral

Balagan1 wrote: »

Respect is key and one way to show it is to use the very widely available names of the victim and her family.

The victim's name was Ana, short for Anastasia.
Her father's name is Patric.
Their family name is Kriegel.

He called Mr and Mrs Kriegel her ''mam'' and ''dad'', can't get much more disrespectful than that considering the poor girl was bullied for being an adopted child. Absolutely vile behaviour from this poster.

dudara

Omackeral wrote: »

He called Mr and Mrs Kriegel her ''mam'' and ''dad'', can't get much more disrespectful than that considering the poor girl was bullied for being an adopted child. Absolutely vile behaviour from this poster.

And a mod warning was issued to him at the time. Plenty of posters have had their say since. Use Report Post if you want to continue this.

dudara

mrjoneill

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

You also have to take into account Boy A asking Boy B to bring her there.

Boy A clearly and obviously planned to attack her.

Boy A was clever enough to not be seen to be the one bringing her to the house, so he was surely clever enough not to ask a completely innocent boy to bring her there where he would risk Boy B seeing his attack and then revealing all to his parents right away!

I do wonder if it was a sex attack gone wrong....maybe Boy A completely lost it when Ana hurt him.

And what better way but to have him an accomplice. Boy A prob thought he would get away with it. He has penciled in not leaving fingerprints but not on the forensics of DNA. His clothes were washed and to the naked eye his boots were clean. He had hidden away his killer accessories. He stated when his clothes and DNA were taken that his clothing and Ana's had made contact just to cover fiber transfer. Ana was only missing at that time. If forensics and his injuries could not link him to the scene along with CCTV which he had not penciled in there was only one suspect and that being Boy B. Wonder did he believe Boy B would take all the blame?

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Good.
Now Boy B.

Was told Boy A wanted to murder Ana.

* supplied the tape which was found around her neck.
* called for a girl he didn’t like and had little previous dealings with.
* takes Ana 3 km to meet her murderer, could have met outside her home, school or anywhere convenient.
* lies continually about what occurred, 9 changes of story.
* watches the police search for Ana, says nothing.
* knew the final position in the room of Ana’s body despite saying he had left the scene earlier. Very important.
* never, even up to now, has told the truth.
* still continued to sully her name
* and “the look” between both boys when one had deviated from the agreed script. The detectives knew then they were BOTH involved.

Guilty unanimously in the eyes of the jury. Not one member thought he was innocent. Very telling.

What's the bit about knowing the final position of Ana?

tuxy

MrFresh wrote: »

You also have to remember that both boys and one of the fathers had given false information to the Gardaí at this stage so there was no reason to believe she was hurt, just upset. I think it was Boy A's father gave them a false lead when he met a Garda in the park that day.

This is news to me, not doubting it but could you give more info or point in the right direction on where I could read up on it?

tuxy

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the bit about knowing the final position of Ana?

Blood splatter experts figured out Ana was attacked in one room then moved to another afterwards. Boy B claimed to have only seen the start of the attack but when asked where Ana was when he last saw her it was the other room she had been moved to that he described.

MrFresh

tuxy wrote: »

This is news to me, not doubting it but could you give more info or point in the right direction on where I could read up on it?

One of the Gardaí was searching the park the day after Ana went missing when he met a man and his son walking through the park. The man suggested he look for Ana near the sewerage plant because kids often hung out there. The Garda later discovered this was Boy A and his dad.

splinter65

tuxy wrote: »

This is news to me, not doubting it but could you give more info or point in the right direction on where I could read up on it?

It’s all in the much linked Conor Gallagher article in the Irish Times. It’s a 74 minute read but every single piece of detail about this tragedy is in it.

gctest50

When they get out they'll just the next Patrick Nevin :


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/patrick-nevin-the-tinder-rapist-and-serial-criminal-1.3935751


"Fearing she would die, she grabbed a brick and began to smash it into the side of his head. Nevin was unphased; he managed to get the brick off her and struck her repeatedly to the back of the head."

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the bit about knowing the final position of Ana?

He stated to detectives that he watched Boy A attack Ana and knock her to the ground and also that he watched him undress her. He said it happened near the door and he watched from outside. He said he went home then.

Later he drew a map of the room when asked to explain where Ana’s body was in it. He drew it and placed Ana’s body exactly where it was found. It had been moved from where the attack took place.

If he had gone home then he wouldn’t have known where her body was in the room because it had been dragged from it’s original place where he said he saw Boy A attack her into the other area where it was found. It was dragged by Boy A using the blue tape supplied by Boy B to the second spot.
He tripped himself up.

To me that proves he was there all along and knew everything that happened.

The Specialist

gctest50 wrote: »

When they get out they'll just the next Patrick Nevin :

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/patrick-nevin-the-tinder-rapist-and-serial-criminal-1.3935751

Patrick Nevin needs to be skinned alive and thrown in a bath of salt to die roaring, much like these 2 *****.

Suckit

tuxy wrote: »

This is news to me, not doubting it but could you give more info or point in the right direction on where I could read up on it?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kri%C3%A9gel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570

Back in Lucan, Dunne and his colleagues continued to comb the area. After walking the park with Boy B the garda decided to search the railway line, but he found nothing. As Dunne was walking back he was stopped by a man and his son. The man had heard about Ana going missing and suggested the garda check the back of the local sewage-treatment plant, as teenagers tended to hang around there.
It was only later that day that Dunne realised this man was Boy A’s father and the teen with him was Boy A.

Also weird that they didn't say anything about the two men.

Kidchameleon

MrFresh wrote: »

One of the Gardaí was searching the park the day after Ana went missing when he met a man and his son walking through the park. The man suggested he look for Ana near the sewerage plant because kids often hung out there. The Garda later discovered this was Boy A and his dad.

Do you think boy A had told his dad what he had done at this stage or something? The dad was as clueless as anybody else. A's dad in this instance was obviously trying to be helpful. Its a bit unfair to conflate this to him trying to throw the guards off the scent.

mrjoneill

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the bit about knowing the final position of Ana?

Forensics indicated Ana did not die where her body was found and indicate she was moved from near the door to the back of the room. Boy B was asked to draw a sketch when he was in one of his crying moods after being caught out lying to where Ana's body was last seen by him. This was where her body was found. This indicates he was there for the entirety of her murder. Ana they believe was moved by dragging her by the ligature tape that Boy B provided that was wound around her neck. This ligature did not cause her death and Ana was found with some fingers underneath the ligature. She was also manually choked by a hand being applied