Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Strazdas

mrjoneill wrote: »

Forensics indicated Ana did not die where her body was found and indicate she was moved from near the door to the back of the room. Boy B was asked to draw a sketch when he was in one of his crying moods after being caught out lying to where Ana's body was last seen by him. This was where her body was found. This indicates he was there for the entirety of her murder. Ana they believe was moved by dragging her by the ligature tape that Boy B provided that was wound around her neck. This ligature did not cause her death and Ana was found with some fingers underneath the ligature. She was also manually choked by a hand being applied

Plus, B couldn't account for 30 minutes or so after he supposedly fled the scene : there were no sightings of him anywhere else and he didn't return straight home.

He claims he sat down somewhere in the park to 'gather his thoughts' but investigators believed he watched the entire murder and its aftermath and probably spent time with A discussing what to do next : both leaving the abandoned house at the same time in different directions.

mrjoneill

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Do you think boy A had told his dad what he had done at this stage or something? The dad was as clueless as anybody else. A's dad in this instance was obviously trying to be helpful. Its a bit unfair to conflate this to him trying to throw the guards off the scent.

He was being very circumspect, he did not volunteer this is Boy A that was with Boy B. He obv knew his son was implicated in some way the fact they were in the park that morning. Gardai were at Boy B house 8.30 that morning and took him to the park. It was the first they heard of Boy A and were not made aware of the significance at that time. Later in the day both Boy A and Boy B were brought to the park by different Garda units to meet to est facts. It was only at that point Gardai realized of the earlier occurrence. While Gardai were trying to est the facts with both Boy A and Boy B, Boy A was constantly whinging about the assault on him while Gardai told him they would deal with him in turn but their priorities was Ana that was missing.

Hannibal_Smith

Eric Cartman wrote: »

He said she dressed slutty, hardly “i want her dead” material.

This 3km from the house business is a nonsense, that park would be a very common spot for youths to hang out there from Ana’s estate. It would be quire common for people to walk close by that building as its on a popular walking route. People acting like they brought her to some far off no mans land that nobody ever visits.

The kid has definitely through his own intention or as a patsy become embroiled in this , but what helps nobody is this rampant speculation about perfectly normal things 13 year old boys do like hang out in parks , like masks , lend people tape and say not so nice things about how teenage girls dress as definitive murderous traits.

I 100% bet you wouldnt find a 13-14 year old lad in the land who hasnt called somebody a weirdo/loner or commented on the way a girl dresses and hasn’t been interested in hanging out with some lad who has brought a samurai sword or some other weapon back from moore street / holidays. Lets not start pretending that every 13 year old boy doing 13 year old boy things is suddenly 80% of the way to being a murderer

And yet a 13 year old girl was murdered. So there was nothing normal about it.

Saying she dressed slutty, wouldnt be a complimentary thing to say in my opinion. Maybe it's a normal description for you to use for girls you like, but it wouldn't be something I've heard my friends say about some one they're friendly with (or at all tbh). So to lead a girl you didn't like 3km from her home to a boy who said to you they'd like to kill her, may seem innocent to you, but to conclude he had an idea that the meeting was going to be unsavoury is not nonsense. It was a quiet enough place for boy a to murder her and leave her there until she was found 3 days later. Why wasn't it the first place gardai looked if it's such a nonsense no deal place to bring her?

I have not engaged in rampant speculation about normal teenage behaviour. I have challenged the unusual behaviour of a 13 year old boy bringing a girl he didn't like to an abandoned house to a boy who didn't like her. The fact that it is unusual is evidenced by the fact that the girl is now dead.

tuxy

Suckit wrote: »

Also weird that they didn't say anything about the two men.

That bit is not too weird as I imagine the only reason his dad was looking for the men was to attack them and get revenge.

Suckit

tuxy wrote: »

That bit is not too weird as I imagine the only reason his dad was looking for the men was to attack them and get revenge.

When the Gardaí are looking for a missing girl in a park, and Boy A has told his father that two men attacked him in the same park, it is very weird that they didn't mention that.

Kidchameleon

Suckit wrote: »

When the Gardaí are looking for a missing girl in a park, and Boy A has told his father that two men attacked him in the same park, it is very weird that they didn't mention that.

Maybe they did, none of us were there at the time.

Eric Cartman

mrjoneill wrote: »

I would imagine it increases a teenager "street cred" to have someone infatuated by them. Ana was a very attractive girl as testified by those older boys who propositioned her for sex. Ana was not killed because she got infatuated with someone that could not handle the "embarrassment". Boy A could have told her at any time he wasn't interested. As for Boy B he could have passed on his friends wishes any time, he did not have to bring her 3km to an isolated abandoned house to do it. He knew full well Boy A attitude towards her so an innocent explanation just doesn't run. Thinking back to when I was 13 it definitely was never in my mind to inflict or standby while such an appalling category of injuries was caused to someone as listed in the autopsy
https://www.thejournal.ie/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-day-8-4626078-May2019/

And both Boy A and Boy B continued to function without a problem only the blame that was being placed on them after it. Both are very sick teenagers.

Just to be very clear, I am not , nor have ever suggested this nor have I ever or will ever speculate on the motive. I have no idea why Boy A did it and until he pipes up out of guilt (if ever) nobody else will either.

Many here have suggested that boy B was not friends with ana, that they never hung around. I find it strange that he knew her address and she would voluntarily go with him were this that case. Theres nothing in evidence that ive seen about this, but it just doesn't make sense if he held the 'hatred' towards her that many have claimed.

iamwhoiam

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Just to be very clear, I am not , nor have ever suggested this nor have I ever or will ever speculate on the motive. I have no idea why Boy A did it and until he pipes up out of guilt (if ever) nobody else will either.

Many here have suggested that boy B was not friends with ana, that they never hung around. I find it strange that he knew her address and she would voluntarily go with him were this that case. Theres nothing in evidence that ive seen about this, but it just doesn't make sense if he held the 'hatred' towards her that many have claimed.

Ana was a vulnerable girl who craved friends so it makes perfect sense that she would be pleased to go with a lad she knew to see . Her dad Patric said she looked happy to go . The poor pet probably felt pleased
Her address would be very easy to find out from others who live in her area . Local kids are well aware who lives where and who lives beside who

Hannibal_Smith

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Just to be very clear, I am not , nor have ever suggested this nor have I ever or will ever speculate on the motive. I have no idea why Boy A did it and until he pipes up out of guilt (if ever) nobody else will either.

Many here have suggested that boy B was not friends with ana, that they never hung around. I find it strange that he knew her address and she would voluntarily go with him were this that case. Theres nothing in evidence that ive seen about this, but it just doesn't make sense if he held the 'hatred' towards her that many have claimed.

Yet as soon as the mother heard, alarm bells went off and she went out to look for her.

Suckit

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Maybe they did, none of us were there at the time.

Later that day, Gda Dunne decided to search along the railway line in Leixlip before returning to the park where Ana was last seen. He said in the park, at 3.14pm, he passed an adult male and a boy. The adult stopped him, said he was a local and suggested he check a near-by sewage plant for Ana because young people liked to hang out there.
Half an hour later, as part of his investigation, he went to the home of Boy A. His father answered the door and Sgt Dunne realised this was the man who told him about the sewage plant and that the boy with him was Boy A.
Boy A and his father accompanied Sgt Dunne and Boy B back to the park because the garda wanted to ask follow-up questions on the route they took.
Sgt Dunne said both Boy A and Boy B walked ahead of the adults. He said the route Boy B showed him was different in places to the one they walked earlier

Surely the relevant part would have been that two men beat up his son earlier, not that 'young people like to hang out at the sewage plant'.
I'd imagine that the Garda would have followed up on that before going to the plant.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Just to be very clear, I am not , nor have ever suggested this nor have I ever or will ever speculate on the motive. I have no idea why Boy A did it and until he pipes up out of guilt (if ever) nobody else will either.

Many here have suggested that boy B was not friends with ana, that they never hung around. I find it strange that he knew her address and she would voluntarily go with him were this that case. Theres nothing in evidence that ive seen about this, but it just doesn't make sense if he held the 'hatred' towards her that many have claimed.

So now you think he may have been friends with her?
Secretly?
Have you read much of the court case?

Eric Cartman

Suckit wrote: »

Surely the relevant part would have been that two men beat up his son earlier, not that 'young people like to hang out at the sewage plant'.
I'd imagine that the Garda would have followed up on that before going to the plant.



So now you think he may have been friends with her?
Secretly?
Have you read much of the court case?

"maybe boy B didn't hate her and hadn't 'never spoken to her'" = im saying they were both friends with her in secret, see this is the problem with this website , any over reaction possible and theres somebody to over react

Kidchameleon

Suckit wrote: »

Surely the relevant part would have been that two men beat up his son earlier, not that 'young people like to hang out at the sewage plant'.
I'd imagine that the Garda would have followed up on that before going to the plant.

I don't know either way but there is no blow by blow account of the conversion in the park so it is pure speculation to suggest that the attack by the two men was not mentioned. I may have been and it may not have been.

Suckit

Eric Cartman wrote: »

"maybe boy B didn't hate her and hadn't 'never spoken to her'" = im saying they were both friends with her in secret, see this is the problem with this website , any over reaction possible and theres somebody to over react

You said "Many here have suggested that boy B was not friends with ana, that they never hung around."
and
"I find it strange that he knew her address and she would voluntarily go with him were this that case. Theres nothing in evidence that ive seen about this"
I am not overreacting, I am literally quoting you and asking if yout hink they were friends, and if you've read much of the courtcase. It really, really seems like you haven't.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I don't know either way but there is no blow by blow account of the conversion in the park so it is pure speculation to suggest that the attack by the two men was not mentioned. I may have been and it may not have been.

If it was mentioned, surely that would have been a massive bit of information to the Garda and could have saved him the journey of calling to the house a half an hour later.

Strazdas

I'm convinced there must have been a conversation and collusion between A and B after the murder. How could B know what would happen next if he supposedly fled the scene?. A could tell Gardai for example "I watched B kill Ana Kriegel". Everything about his behaviour for the next few days suggests collusion and they discussing how to cover up the murder.

Eric Cartman

Strazdas wrote: »

I'm convinced there must have been a conversation and collusion between A and B after the murder. How could B know what would happen next if he supposedly fled the scene?. A could tell Gardai for example "I watched B kill Ana Kriegel". Everything about his behaviour for the next few days suggests collusion and they discussing how to cover up the murder.

it might suggest fear also , this chap that he's mates with is heavy into brazilian ju jitsu and murders and rapes a girl, "if you rat me out your next" being taken seriously isn't far fetched. we're both working in 'i reckon' land here but the fear of being murdered by a mate who knows where you live and your every move combined with shock of potentially witnessing a murder or knowing that you inadvertently led a girl to her death would make for some crazy responses from a 13 year old.

Hannibal_Smith

Eric Cartman wrote: »

"maybe boy B didn't hate her and hadn't 'never spoken to her'" = im saying they were both friends with her in secret, see this is the problem with this website , any over reaction possible and theres somebody to over react

So, you're not saying they were friends, but you're saying their not not friends? As per your comment:-

Many here have suggested that boy B was not friends with ana , that they never hung around. I find it strange that he knew her address and she would voluntarily go with him were this that case

Kidchameleon

Suckit wrote: »

If it was mentioned, surely that would have been a massive bit of information to the Garda and could have saved him the journey of calling to the house a half an hour later.

But the guard called to the house in relation to Ana, the house call was nothing to do with the attack on boy A. Look I dont want to go around in circles with this so I will say that yes, it looks like it was not mentioned from the available evidence, but we do not have much evidence from the meeting in the park so we cannot rule out that A's father did in fact mention it, that is the only point I want to make.

tuxy

When I was in school I knew what area everyone in my year was from and if I wanted to I could ask someone and find their exact address. Also remember that Ana's old primary school teacher described her as too trusting and fears others would take advantage of this.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

tayto lover wrote: »

He stated to detectives that he watched Boy A attack Ana and knock her to the ground and also that he watched him undress her. He said it happened near the door and he watched from outside. He said he went home then.

Later he drew a map of the room when asked to explain where Ana’s body was in it. He drew it and placed Ana’s body exactly where it was found. It had been moved from where the attack took place.

If he had gone home then he wouldn’t have known where her body was in the room because it had been dragged from it’s original place where he said he saw Boy A attack her into the other area where it was found. It was dragged by Boy A using the blue tape supplied by Boy B to the second spot.
He tripped himself up.

To me that proves he was there all along and knew everything that happened.

That wasnt in the IT article, was it?

tayto lover

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

That wasnt in the IT article, was it?

It was in one of the reports I read. Think it was IT.

splinter65

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Maybe they did, none of us were there at the time.

The Garda was quite clear. A man walking with a boy spoke to the Garda when the Garda was searching for Ana.
The man advised the Garda to search in another area.
The man did not point out that he was boy As father.
The Garda only discovered that later this evening.
I’m inclined to believe the Garda even if you prefer not to.

n97 mini

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

So, you're not saying they were friends, but you're saying their not not friends? As per your comment:-

Many here have suggested that boy B was not friends with ana , that they never hung around. I find it strange that he knew her address and she would voluntarily go with him were this that case

Dense suburban area. Most kids know where other kids the same age/in the same year live. They don't have to be friends. My kids knows the kid two doors up, but they're not friends.

Strazdas

Eric Cartman wrote: »

it might suggest fear also , this chap that he's mates with is heavy into brazilian ju jitsu and murders and rapes a girl, "if you rat me out your next" being taken seriously isn't far fetched. we're both working in 'i reckon' land here but the fear of being murdered by a mate who knows where you live and your every move combined with shock of potentially witnessing a murder or knowing that you inadvertently led a girl to her death would make for some crazy responses from a 13 year old.

For sure, but there had to be a conversation after the murder. He was way too composed in his early answers to Gardai and it looks like he and B had discussed what angle to take if questioned.

If he had simply fled the scene, why would he even need to tell a pack of lies? For all he knew, A was telling Gardai that he (B) had killed Ana.

Kidchameleon

splinter65 wrote: »

The Garda was quite clear. A man walking with a boy spoke to the Garda when the Garda was searching for Ana.
The man advised the Garda to search in another area.
The man did not point out that he was boy As father.
The Garda only discovered that later this evening.
I’m inclined to believe the Garda even if you prefer not to.

At the time of the meeting in the park, was boy A under any suspicion? It is my understanding that A and B became under suspicion later that evening. If I am correct, then that means the guard was not at the time in any way interested in boy A and boy A's father was not in any way suspicious of his sons involvement. So why would A's dad mention who his son was?

Oh and I believe everything the guard said by the way, I'm not sure why you think I dont.

pablo128

What puzzles me is why boy A was out walking if he had leg injuries causing him to limp.

tuxy

Strazdas wrote: »

For sure, but there had to be a conversation after the murder. He was way too composed in his early answers to Gardai and it looks like he and B had discussed what angle to take if questioned.

If he had simply fled the scene, why would he even need to tell a pack of lies? For all he knew, A was telling Gardai that he (B) had killed Ana.

Later he admitted to misunderstanding the law. He was under the impression that he could only get a small punishment lasting a few weeks at most since he didn't actually do any of the physical harm. That's possibly why he was so calm.

Cryptopagan

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

That wasnt in the IT article, was it?

That claim has come up several times in the thread but I’ve yet to see a source for it. It’s not in the IT article.

mrjoneill

Strazdas wrote: »

For sure, but there had to be a conversation after the murder. He was way too composed in his early answers to Gardai and it looks like he and B had discussed what angle to take if questioned.

If he had simply fled the scene, why would he even need to tell a pack of lies? For all he knew, A was telling Gardai that he (B) had killed Ana.

Boy B made a statement on the first day implicating meeting Boy A.They were then free to go till arrested 10days after. I understand Boy A & Boy B hung out together during that period walking the streets of theirarea together. They tough they had beaten the sys.

tuxy

bardij wrote: »

If you are going to criticise a post I'd appreciate an explanation.

I think he has issue with you pointing out you're the blurry image with the red shirt. No one was going to question if you were there or not. The rest of the post was fine.

Kidchameleon

bardij wrote: »

If you are going to criticise a post I'd appreciate an explanation.

OK now this is not an attack on you personally, it is a respectful criticism which you have requested OK? So you went to Ana's funeral to pay your respects yes? So why have you come online to boast about it? Who do you think cares that you went to her funeral? Show some bloody decency ffs. It is completely idiotic, egotistical, self absorbed and downright weird to share a video of a young girls funeral and point out yourself in it. Now here's the thing, nobody is going to publicly agree with me on this but everyone secretly does and that is all I will say on the matter.