Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

gozunda

tuxy wrote: »

Submission of photo ID required for use of a VPN?
If that's not the case it's just like having the use of internet in any country of your choice once you log into a VPN.
I'm not sure how they could filter all VPNs they can change IP address frequently.

No idea. Take a read of the article linked earlier. Some other stuff on the internet about this recently

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2019/mar/16/uk-online-porn-age-verification-launch

tuxy

gozunda wrote: »

No idea. Take a read of the article linked earlier. Some other stuff on the internet about this recently

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2019/mar/16/uk-online-porn-age-verification-launch

From that article

However, just a third of Britons believe it will be effective in stopping children accessing such material, given individuals who wish to circumvent the age check will be able to do so easily using VPN services, which make a computer appear as though it is located in another country.

Social media sites such as Twitter, which contain large amounts of pornographic content, will be unaffected by the new rules.

It's not that I don't agree with what they are trying to achieve, it's that I believe it's an impossible task.

Ken.

Mod-Come on now Ladies and gents. Ye know better than to give the trolls oxygen. Report them and let us deal with them. Pretend they're not even there.

threeball

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Have a bit of respect for his dad, how would you feel if people joked about Patrick Kreigel?

Respect for what. He couldn't even get his owns sons lies straight. If he was decent and got the truth early on he'd have spared Anas parents the nightmare of a trial and given them some closure. Instead they sat there brazenly contesting he was completely innocent and lashes out when the inevitable happened. Respect my arse.

FFred

I was guilty of troll feeding.

Suckit

tuxy wrote: »

Yes I believe it's the advise a solicitor will give to most people in such cases. We don't know why exactly Boy B did talk so much.

I think Boy B spoke so much because the first time he was interviewed was before Ana had been found and without a solicitor, he wasn't under any suspicion as far as he and his family were concerned. He went with his mother to the station to make a statement after the Gardaí saw himself and Boy A 'share a look'.

I believe it was that statement that he had to then change, and from then on it was pretty much downhill.

He had to change his story to match the cctv and eventually led to him having spoke so much that he admitted he was there.
I don't believe for a second that he has shared the full truth.


I think Cameron Reilly was murdered shortly after that and it was publicised everywhere how important the phone was, and what the Gardaí could get from it, so if Boy B did actually have a phone hidden somewhere, it is very likely at this stage it is destroyed, or will be.

Monumental

hawkelady wrote: »

Bull**** of the highest order

Have you followed this awful case at all ,no question B is as guilty as A and because of limited information he might be more guilty . RIP Ana

Sheep breeder

FFred wrote: »

I think this thread has run it’s course.

The fact remains that an innocent and vulnerable young lady was led under false pretenses to a filthy and lonely place, and then slaughtered and butchered like an animal whilst fighting for her life.

Shame on any posters here trying to point-score against other anonymous internet people to make themselves feel better.

Shame on you.

Very true and the thing to be remembered is how this young lady was treated/ murdered and how posters are justifying scum bag B over this poor girl.
Shame on you a million times over.
No girl deserves what happened to Anna and if you have girls of your own it would be simple to understand the loss her family has gone through.

mrjoneill

gctest50 wrote: »

When they get out they'll just the next Patrick Nevin :


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/patrick-nevin-the-tinder-rapist-and-serial-criminal-1.3935751


"Fearing she would die, she grabbed a brick and began to smash it into the side of his head. Nevin was unphased; he managed to get the brick off her and struck her repeatedly to the back of the head."

Patrick Nevin is very mild to them, not taking from what he has done, just read the autopsy report what was done to Ana its really shocking in the sheer savage brutality and u have to keep reminding yourself this was the actions of 13yr olds. Repeatedly struck with weapon across the face breaking eye-socket, repeated deep lacerations to the head inflicting deep scalp wounds, it goes on and on. Choked by hands on throat. Its depraved for some 20+ but kids not shaving that were toddlers a few yrs previous.
https://www.thejournal.ie/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-day-8-4626078-May2019/

Such vile vermin cant be released till very old age and infirm. But its not going to happen that way. Boy B prob out before 21, Boy A prob mid 20ths. If there is that level of depraved violence as a young teens, the mind boggles as an adult and both totally unphased by it.

volchitsa

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

That wasnt in the IT article, was it?

It's not in the long IT article but I read it too. I think it was in the day to day reporting of the evidence during the trial.

tuxy

volchitsa wrote: »

It's not in the long IT article but I read it too. I think it was in the day to day reporting of the evidence during the trial.

Is this the news report with the details listed in that post?

https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/boy-a-was-choking-ana-as-he-took-off-her-clothes-gardai-told-38143130.html

volchitsa

That seems to be the boy's evidence, what I read probably took place at another point in the trial I think, maybe the guards explaining how they joined the dots between his claims and the blood spatter analysis that disproved what he was saying.

Unfortunately there's so much written about it that only the most recent articles come up now.

fash

briany wrote: »

But I'm not sure how clear it is that Boy B would have walked or escaped a heavy sentence if he'd clammed up. Since the Gards knew he was involved with bringing Ana to Boy A, I'd imagine they'd have put him under much greater scrutiny via forensics, i.e. footprints, fingerprints, dna, hairs, clothing fibres etc.

Nonsense: the Gardai will always look for all evidence. What you are suggesting is that they deliberately endanger convictions on the basis of "yerra, that's good enough".
Do you honestly think the Gardai wouldn't have preferred to have additional forensic evidence linking boy B to the scene? Do you honestly think they didn't do everything they could to look for it?

There are three choices for a defendant in a case such as this, cooperate, clam up, or lie, in order of least risky to riskiest. Boy B chose 3, and got the worst of both worlds out of it. Not that anyone's particularly sorry for him about that.

The best response is always to shut the **** up and ask for your lawyer. https://youtu.be/JTurSi0LhJs

n any case, Boy B was f***ed by the time he was arrested. Even if he had gotten off the charge, how's he going to go back to normal life in Lucan where he'd still be heavily suspected to have been involved? How would he face his friends, his teachers, Ana's parents and all those about town whispering? He and his family would have had to move away at the very least, and no matter where he went, he would still have had to deal with the trauma of what happened and the guilt of his involvement.

You are assuming he is not a psychopath.

threeball

threeball wrote: »

Respect for what. He couldn't even get his owns sons lies straight. If he was decent and got the truth early on he'd have spared Anas parents the nightmare of a trial and given them some closure. Instead they sat there brazenly contesting he was completely innocent and lashes out when the inevitable happened. Respect my arse.

This is one aspect I find worrying and support anonymity. I have sympathy for the parents. For all we know, the boys lied to the parents too. I imagine it's a very traumatic situation for everyone involved. What would you do if this was your child. Do you think you would definitely act entirely objective or would some parental emotions override and blind you until the evidence slowly presents the truth. If your child continues tells you they're innocent, do you believe them. Will you be in denial. I'm not a parent so I don't fully understand these instincts but I've certainly seen them in action. I don't think people recognising the parents in the street is of benefit to anyone. While I wouldn't go as far as to say they deserve the same respect as the Kriegal's, they don't deserve abuse.

SirGerryAdams

The timeline of Boy Bs arrest and charge is a bit blurry.

When did they collect dna samples from him? Did they check the clothes?

Is it possible any DNA he had on him was cleaned away by putting it in the wash?

SirGerryAdams

Deleted User wrote: »

This is one aspect I find worrying and support anonymity. I have sympathy for the parents. For all we know, the boys lied to the parents too. I imagine it's a very traumatic situation for everyone involved. What would you do if this was your child. Do you think you would definitely act entirely objective or would some parental emotions override and blind you until the evidence slowly presents the truth. If your child continues tells you they're innocent, do you believe them. Will you be in denial. I'm not a parent so I don't fully understand these instincts but I've certainly seen them in action. I don't think people recognising the parents in the street is of benefit to anyone. While I wouldn't go as far as to say they deserve the same respect as the Kriegal's, they don't deserve abuse.

Don't have a kid in that situation but I'd like to think I'd want the truth no matter how bad it was.

Would you really want to get away with the thought in your head that your son is a murderer lingering?

gozunda

tuxy wrote: »

From that article
It's not that I don't agree with what they are trying to achieve, it's that I believe it's an impossible task.

Few things are absolutely foolproof imo. For adults it shouldn't be a problem. For children and teenagers it's going to make things more difficult. Parents still should be responsible one way or the other.

SirGerryAdams

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Don't have a kid in that situation but I'd like to think I'd want the truth no matter how bad it was.

Would you really want to get away with the thought in your head that your son is a murderer lingering?

In my current state of mind, yes I'd absolutely want the truth and justice for all. But I'm currently relaxing by a pool without a care in the world.

What I'm suggesting is that if this your own child, there's a good chance you won't be thinking straight at all. People tend to be very biased towards their own children.

SirGerryAdams

Deleted User wrote: »

In my current state of mind, yes I'd absolutely want the truth and justice for all. But I'm currently relaxing by a pool without a care in the world.

What I'm suggesting is that if this your own child, there's a good chance you won't be thinking straight at all. People tend to be very biased towards their own children.

I could understand in the immediate aftermath, but a year later? Imagine all the discussions with family members, discussions with the kid themselves.

Even in the days after her going missing, I'd be reallllly worried the son was involved while she was still a missing person.

A story that didn't match up with Boy B? Randomly attacked by two adult men who he managed to kick in the head?

Adrift

"If your child continues tells you they're innocent, do you believe them. Will you be in denial. I'm not a parent so I don't fully understand these instincts but I've certainly seen them in action. I don't think people recognising the parents in the street is of benefit to anyone. While I wouldn't go as far as to say they deserve the same respect as the Kriegal's, they don't deserve abuse. "

I've zero sympathy for them.


Just reading the transcripts will tell you the lads were full of shi&, and you don't need to be a parent to see that. So the parents are just as bad in my book. I was brought up to tell the truth, it didn't always happen but you learned over the years that if you made an admission that softened the blow, it's a simple lesson really but your parents have to be arsed bringing you up correctly in the first place. Boy B's dads performance in court is all too indicitive of how parenting is done these days. "Not my little Johnny, he'd never do anything like that" Having kids of my own I hear it all the time, Parents who definitely take the hands off, whatever keeps them quiet and I don't care what they're doing al long as it's not interfering with what I'm doing approach.

Neyite

If unofficial reports are true that they were known bullies prior to Ana's murder then it's probable that parents and teachers had a few chats about them targeting other children. And if you have parents who defend and excuse the little stuff, go in guns blazing to tear strips off a teacher on behalf of their little angels, it's not a stretch to assume those kids get braver and more arrogant that they can get away with more and more daring forms of bullying. Mam and Dad will go tell that principal to fcuk off like all the other times, right?

I'm not saying it specifically happened with these boys, but we can see from the way the parents washed evidence /court outbursts that it's possible.

But they didn't yet have the knowledge and experience that comes with adulthood. They don't have the logical brains of adults yet. So by their 13yo logic, they figure the lies they tell about their actions with Ana would also be believed and even defended by mam and dad - especially in boy B's case . But lying to Gardai is a very different ball game to lying to your parents or your teachers.

IvoryTower

We should probably stick to the official reports to be honest, otherwise its all just gossip. It might be interesting but it might not be true

Ash.J.Williams

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

I could understand in the immediate aftermath, but a year later? Imagine all the discussions with family members, discussions with the kid themselves.

Even in the days after her going missing, I'd be reallllly worried the son was involved while she was still a missing person.

A story that didn't match up with Boy B? Randomly attacked by two adult men who he managed to kick in the head?

that's not the first time i've heard of a made up attack in which the "victim" said he got the last dig in...it seems to raise immediate suspicion

Ash.J.Williams

Reati wrote: »

He was 13 and thought he was more clever than the Gardaí interviewing him? Everyone been saying how supposedly smart he was... maybe he believed it.

it might tie in with the new garda training, build up his confidence and then let him talk away and implicate himself.

splinter65

Reati wrote: »

He was 13 and thought he was more clever than the Gardaí interviewing him? Everyone been saying how supposedly smart he was... maybe he believed it.

If you’ve ever threatened a bunch of misbehaving anti social kids with calling the Garda you’ll be very quickly told, “they can’t touch me!”. I think boy b did think that if the worst came to the worst and he was implicated, that his youth would go in his favor and he would get a slap on the wrist in the Garda station and that would be the end of it.

LiamoSail

Deleted User wrote: »

This is one aspect I find worrying and support anonymity. I have sympathy for the parents. For all we know, the boys lied to the parents too. I imagine it's a very traumatic situation for everyone involved. What would you do if this was your child. Do you think you would definitely act entirely objective or would some parental emotions override and blind you until the evidence slowly presents the truth. If your child continues tells you they're innocent, do you believe them. Will you be in denial. I'm not a parent so I don't fully understand these instincts but I've certainly seen them in action. I don't think people recognising the parents in the street is of benefit to anyone. While I wouldn't go as far as to say they deserve the same respect as the Kriegal's, they don't deserve abuse.

Its a year since the murder and their child has since given 10 different accounts of what happened, each of which is contradicted by evidence.

If they had an ounce of decency, they'd get their child to tell the truth. Even if they believe their child to be innocent, they know that he hasn't been truthful. Horrific as it would be for any family to go through what they have, any sympathy is lost as long as they continue to facilitate their child's attempt to cover up a murder.

gozunda

splinter65 wrote: »

If you’ve ever threatened a bunch of misbehaving anti social kids with calling the Garda you’ll be very quickly told, “they can’t touch me!”. I think boy b did think that if the worst came to the worst and he was implicated, that his youth would go in his favor and he would get a slap on the wrist in the Garda station and that would be the end of it.

The other thing that stuck out was his father claiming he was immature and as an example liked Japanese cartoons such as anime

Now I dont know if the father is somewhat clueless or was attempting to paint his son as someone who wouldn't get involved in this kind of thing - but anime has various genres which include extreme violence and porn. Not stuff I would dismiss as always being innocent or harmless tbh.

briany

fash wrote: »

Nonsense: the Gardai will always look for all evidence. What you are suggesting is that they deliberately endanger convictions on the basis of "yerra, that's good enough".
Do you honestly think the Gardai wouldn't have preferred to have additional forensic evidence linking boy B to the scene? Do you honestly think they didn't do everything they could to look for it?

We don't yet know the full methodologies of the Gardaí in relation to this case or the extent of the evidence collected on both suspects. My point was that if Boy B had not talked, he'd have had to damn well hope that Gardaí had not been able to find anything physically linking him to the scene of the actual murder.

The best response is always to shut the **** up and ask for your lawyer. https://youtu.be/JTurSi0LhJs

The best response in the opinion of the general law-abiding public was that he talked.

You are assuming he is not a psychopath.

Yes, and I'll assume that until a more in-depth psychological profile of Boy B is released.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Neyite wrote: »

If unofficial reports are true that they were known bullies prior to Ana's murder then it's probable that parents and teachers had a few chats about them targeting other children. And if you have parents who defend and excuse the little stuff, go in guns blazing to tear strips off a teacher on behalf of their little angels, it's not a stretch to assume those kids get braver and more arrogant that they can get away with more and more daring forms of bullying. Mam and Dad will go tell that principal to fcuk off like all the other times, right?

I'm not saying it specifically happened with these boys, but we can see from the way the parents washed evidence /court outbursts that it's possible.

But they didn't yet have the knowledge and experience that comes with adulthood. They don't have the logical brains of adults yet. So by their 13yo logic, they figure the lies they tell about their actions with Ana would also be believed and even defended by mam and dad - especially in boy B's case . But lying to Gardai is a very different ball game to lying to your parents or your teachers.

This is why its in the public interest to name them or at least allow the school to be named.

the butcher

ziedth wrote: »

Makes me wonder when the next murder comes are they going to try this tactic and take something like a tactic of "No, I refuse to answer, you prove I was involved anything from now will be answered no comment"

It happens with seasoned/veteran criminals. But with this case being so high profile and with many young people reading about it and how Gardai conduct interviews - makes me wonder how beneficial it is for the general public to know the fine details.