Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

iamwhoiam

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Well, it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of belief that the perpetrator of the crime wanted some sort of trophy considering their interest in all things satanic?

I mean if you really wanted to push the theory boat out you could suggest that boy B's phone were not in fact lost but in the possession of boy A, not only to record the event but also to implicate boy B if the need arose? He may have stashed them en-route home as they did go in different directions. You just couldn't overemphasize the devious mind of boy A.

Or over emphasise the lieing of Boy B . I wouldn’t believe a word out of his mouth
Maybe the phones were never lost . I wonder where they ever traced or whatever you call the Gardai searching for the phones ?

Stop moaning ffs

Things that don’t add up and remain weirdly curious

Boy A and father in the park and meeting Gardai while they were searching for Ana, and the gardai later realising the next morning it was the same father when they arrived at the door. A’s father deflected / directed them and told Gardai to search a local sewer. The boy was injured. Did he tell his father what happened and the father gave him a hiding? He had injuries and a limp for days after. Rather more than a 14 year old girl could have given him.


Boy B having two phones but lost both mysteriously gone and according to his father, who went on to point out they had been lost before all of this took place.
It looks and sounds like boy Bs role was to lead poor Ana to the house and he actually filmed the whole thing. But as with his backpack, explained away so nothing could be set down in concrete evidence. The phones remain a lingering question but probably destroyed.
Why was Anas body moved ‘for better light’ by their own admission, if not for filming? This makes no sense at all to move her body after the fact.

Boy B held the ‘white plank’ but nothing comes of it?

Boy A and Bs mothers meeting before Anas body was recovered. Why?

Boy Bs father safe to say known to police given the address was in pulse system and his ignoring the police upon arrival at home and going to bed. Possibly explaining his outburst in the court upon the verdict being delivered.
The tape was his we know as he had more when Gardai searched the house. So that’s a tool of his job maybe.

Maybe a nothing but the unidentified dna on her top is really bizarre. Never heard of a sample of dna being too small to identify but it could have been just about anything. Not at all on the scale of the dangling questions above.

tuxy

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Things that don’t add up and remain weirdly curious

Most of your questions actually have legitimate explanations and were covered in the trial and on this thread many times, I know you can't read all the thread as it's very long but check out the media reports on it.

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I haven't see this shared on thread yet, it contains a good write up of all of the physical and circumstantial evidence that got the convictions.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kri%C3%A9gel-the-five-things-that-convicted-boys-a-and-b-of-murder-1.3932346

I don't really get how the Kriegal's statement counts as evidence to convict

Stop moaning ffs

tuxy wrote: »

Most of your questions actually have legitimate explanations and were covered in the trial and on this thread many times, I know you can't read all the thread as it's very long but check out the media reports on it.

Not being controversial at all I’ve followed the case. These are just weird moments or things left hanging.

I don’t understand why we now don’t implement Anas law. Make it a complete zero tolerance policy on bullying nationwide.

No blame on any parents. Any of them. Your kid might just well be a handful or a weirdly dark quiet one. It isn’t on you. Only so much any parent can do.

But if it was top down zero tolerance we would see change.


Those kids that bullied her and excluded her are out there right now. They’re living with this and hopefully come around to learning from it. And hopefully will teach their own never to do it. It’s the only good outcome we can hope for in all of this sad scary affair.

tuxy

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Not being controversial at all I’ve followed the case. These are just weird moments or things left hanging.

If so why are you suspicious of Boy A's father being in the park? His son had told him he was attacked by two men in the park, his son used this excuse to explain his injuries and we know Ana put up a fight. His father was looking for the two men, he asked the park ranger if he had seen the men and then used the rangers phone to call the Gardi to report it the continued his search.

Suckit

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't really get how the Kriegal's statement counts as evidence to convict

I'm guessing it is because their testimony highlights how unusual it was for anyone to call into her and ask her to go out, and the father was able to identify Boy B as the person who called.

That, coupled with all of the other evidence against them made it more plausible that it was planned and not just a lot of random events.

Stop moaning ffs

tuxy wrote: »

If so why are you suspicious of Boy A's father being in the park? His son had told him he was attacked by two men in the park, his son used this excuse to explain his injuries and we know Ana put up a fight. His father was looking for the two men, he asked the park ranger if he had seen the men and then used the rangers phone to call the Gardi to report it the continued his search.

Boy a doesn’t seem like the kind of kid that would admit any weakness.
He also doesn’t seem like the kind of guy going for a walk with his father.
What did him and his father plan to do upon finding these imaginary assailants?

That element just doesn’t add up for me somehow.

tuxy

We know practically nothing about boy A, he refused to cooperate very early in the interview process.

pablo128

tuxy wrote: »

If so why are you suspicious of Boy A's father being in the park? His son had told him he was attacked by two men in the park, his son used this excuse to explain his injuries and we know Ana put up a fight. His father was looking for the two men, he asked the park ranger if he had seen the men and then used the rangers phone to call the Gardi to report it the continued his search.

The father was seen the next day walking in the park with his son, who was supposed to have a bad limp. Why would you go out walking with your son whos leg was hurting him? Surely not for the imaginary 2 lads from the day before?

tuxy

pablo128 wrote: »

The father was seen the next day walking in the park with his son, who was supposed to have a bad limp. Why would you go out walking with your son whos leg was hurting him? Surely not for the imaginary 2 lads from the day before?

Any hypothesis on what they were doing so?

pablo128

tuxy wrote: »

Any hypothesis on what they were doing so?

It strikes me as a little bit odd. I wouldn't be going walking in the local park with my daughter if she had a hurt leg.

We'll probably never know though.

Stop moaning ffs

tuxy wrote: »

We know practically nothing about boy A, he refused to cooperate very early in the interview process.

Chilling that he didn’t.

I wondered about both his and Bs parents. How to get that time for court off work.

What are they doing now.

How is it Bs(?) family have had to move? Neither family should have to but as evidenced in this thread they probably have been forced to.

It’s heartbreaking all of it. I wouldn’t even visit him if he was mine. I just wouldn’t. They’ll get out when they get out and is blank him then too.
Ideally.
Same time you’re always going to love your son.
They won’t come out of prison in any single way that’s compatible with normality and day to day. Not up to us to call judgement. They have to live the rest of their lives with a horrific call they made as kids. And rightly so.

Hannibal_Smith

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Things that don’t add up and remain weirdly curious

Boy A and father in the park and meeting Gardai while they were searching for Ana, and the gardai later realising the next morning it was the same father when they arrived at the door. A’s father deflected / directed them and told Gardai to search a local sewer. The boy was injured. Did he tell his father what happened and the father gave him a hiding? He had injuries and a limp for days after. Rather more than a 14 year old girl could have given him.

There was a witness who said he saw a Boy, who the police believe to be Boy A walking through the park and limping, I think he said he had blood on his clothes too, but not sure about that. So it appears Boy A was injured before he got home.

But you're right regarding th bullying. I had a talk with my kids as well last week about bullying. I asked if they were being mean to anyone, or if anyone was mean to them and explained what to do if there was. I also told them to look out for kids in their class who are being mean to someone or to look out for kids who are left out constantly and if they see that, to tell me and a teacher. It's up to everyone, I think to look out, not just the ones directly involved.

Regarding the time lines. They say that Mrs Kriegel called Ana's phone about 5.40 and they believed any had already been murdered by then. I think Boy A was seen about 5.50. But did they see Boy B leaving? Is there no CCTV or witness statement showing when he left the park and when? Was there time for them to agree a story then?

Stop moaning ffs

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

There was a witness who said he saw a Boy, who the police believe to be Boy A walking through the park and limping, I think he said he had blood on his clothes too, but not sure about that. So it appears Boy A was injured before he got home.

But you're right regarding th bullying. I had a talk with my kids as well last week about bullying. I asked if they were being mean to anyone, or if anyone was mean to them and explained what to do if there was. I also told them to look out for kids in their class who are being mean to someone or to look out for kids who are left out constantly and if they see that, to tell me and a teacher. It's up to everyone, I think to look out, not just the ones directly involved.

Regarding the time lines. They say that Mrs Kriegel called Ana's phone about 5.40 and they believed any had already been murdered by then. I think Boy A was seen about 5.50. But did they see Boy B leaving? Is there no CCTV or witness statement showing when he left the park and when? Was there time for them to agree a story then?

Fair play with your kids. We need more of that and often reminding them.

As to these two. It just feels like they had a plan and B broke the trust and thought he was smarter. Knowing full well they couldn’t place him. Again. The white stick.
They didn’t bring weapons.
My guess is it wasn’t an intentional killing. She fought back and A overreacted when she fought back into murder. With a concrete block. Once again. They brought no weapons that they both seem to have been even fond of making.
No forgiveness or explaining away from me so don’t think that.

It’s all so weird and bizarre. This one is going to hang around a long time. Dublin is a big village. I have a cousin with a kid on oberstown. They all know they’re there. They don’t know their names (rightly) and so far don’t interact with them.
So the kids in there know they’re there. It won’t end well and they’re anonymity won’t last long.

threeball

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Fair play with your kids. We need more of that and often reminding them.

As to these two. It just feels like they had a plan and B broke the trust and thought he was smarter. Knowing full well they couldn’t place him. Again. The white stick.
They didn’t bring weapons.
My guess is it wasn’t an intentional killing. She fought back and A overreacted when she fought back into murder. With a concrete block. Once again. They brought no weapons that they both seem to have been even fond of making.
No forgiveness or explaining away from me so don’t think that.

It’s all so weird and bizarre. This one is going to hang around a long time. Dublin is a big village. I have a cousin with a kid on oberstown. They all know they’re there. They don’t know their names (rightly) and so far don’t interact with them.
So the kids in there know they’re there. It won’t end well and they’re anonymity won’t last long.

Ya not intentional at all. They just brought a bag of body armour for the Craic. Walked 3km and happened to come across a stick with nails in it. An innocent mistake.

Stop moaning ffs

threeball wrote: »

Ya not intentional at all. They just brought a bag of body armour for the Craic. Walked 3km and happened to come across a stick with nails in it. An innocent mistake.

No need for the wise cracks. We obviously know they meant harm.
It’s an outlying point that they didn’t make or bring any weapons that we know of. That’s all was contained in my point. It’s of no matter in the end result.
Probably safe to assume they had a bargain to deny everything if caught and it seems they did goihg by As notebook remarks. But B just thought he was clever cos he hadn’t been fingered yet despite numerous interactions with gardai prior to arrest.

threeball

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

No need for the wise cracks. We obviously know they meant harm.
It’s an outlying point that they didn’t make or bring any weapons that we know of. That’s all was contained in my point. It’s of no matter in the end result.
Probably safe to assume they had a bargain to deny everything if caught and it seems they did goihg by As notebook remarks. But B just thought he was clever cos he hadn’t been fingered yet despite numerous interactions with gardai prior to arrest.

I think it's safer to assume they meant more than harm rather than any pact they had. They didn't bring her 3km to a derelict house to tickle her.
There was absolute premeditation in every thing they did from the kit, to calling to her house. Half excusing what they did by assuming they were only going to give her a fright is pure fantasy.

Stop moaning ffs

threeball wrote: »

I think it's safer to assume they meant more than harm rather than any pact they had. They didn't bring her 3km to a derelict house to tickle her.
There was absolute premeditation in every thing they did from the kit, to calling to her house. Half excusing what they did by assuming they were only going to give her a fright is pure fantasy.

It’s sickening but I agree with you.
I’m of the belief B filmed the whole thing.
Not a popular opinion but here we are. Murder though? Seems more likely it all hit out of hand beyond their planning and A reacted leading to murder.

Calling lie to that is the cold refusal to engage with police on As part and Bs spinning.

Well just never know.

Both seemed coached to a high degree. A especially. B seemed to have ignored it all.

Meaning the interviews.

CollyFlower

After all they did they just seemed to carry on as normal, for like 10 days, I think it was 10 days after Ana was found that they were charged.

threeball

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s sickening but I agree with you.
I’m of the belief B filmed the whole thing.
Not a popular opinion but here we are. Murder though? Seems more likely it all hit out of hand beyond their planning and A reacted leading to murder.

Calling lie to that is the cold refusal to engage with police on As part and Bs spinning.

Well just never know.

Both seemed coached to a high degree. A especially. B seemed to have ignored it all.

Meaning the interviews.

I'm not sure if he filmed the event although it wouldn't surprise me.
To me that's irrelevant anyway as every action along the way from the constant lies and adapting stories to the evidence at hand, to the physical evidence, to the lack of interest and guidance from both sets of parents is enough for me to know they planned every detail in as far as their tiny 13yr old minds could muster and were so arrogant and thought her so worthless that no one would care or notice.
Thankfully the Gardai did an excellent job and gathered enough together to convict despite the judge refusing the use of some damning facts. The only unfortunate outcome from this case is that these scumbags will most likely walk away in less than 7yrs.

Stop moaning ffs

CollyFlower wrote: »

After all they did they just seemed to carry on as normal, for like 10 days, I think it was 10 days after Ana was found that they were charged.

That’s another thing. No phone?
They had no contact after the fact? B didn’t text A to let him know the gardai were at the door earlier?
No. None of it it seems. They planned no contact outside face to face to face.
It’s chilling. So young and so warped.

Every 12 and 13 year old upwards I know has a phone and Snapchat and instagrams and all that.
He had one and it was destroyed soon after the gardai initially called to the house I’d bet. With the footage of the assault on it.

threeball

CollyFlower wrote: »

After all they did they just seemed to carry on as normal, for like 10 days, I think it was 10 days after Ana was found that they were charged.

And that is critical. If things get out of hand at 13yrs you dont hold it together for 10days hiding a big mistake. That would haunt you 24hrs a day. One of them would crack. Instead despite interview in high pressure situations they do nothing but refer to her as wierd and slutty.

Stop moaning ffs

threeball wrote: »

And that is critical. If things get out of hand at 13yrs you dont hold it together for 10days hiding a big mistake. That would haunt you 24hrs a day. One of them would crack. Instead despite interview in high pressure situations they do nothing but refer to her as wierd and slutty.

^^^this

And that’s the really frightening part

volchitsa

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s sickening but I agree with you.
I’m of the belief B filmed the whole thing.
Not a popular opinion but here we are. Murder though? Seems more likely it all hit out of hand beyond their planning and A reacted leading to murder.
Calling lie to that is the cold refusal to engage with police on As part and Bs spinning.

Well just never know.

Both seemed coached to a high degree. A especially. B seemed to have ignored it all.

Meaning the interviews.

From what I understand from reading about the case, that is a legal definition of murder. Because the harm was preplanned, and that led to her death, it doesn't matter much that they (perhaps) didn't actually intend to kill her.

Homicide has to be that you didn't intend to harm the person but it got out of hand. No preplanning. That's why if you get in a fight and kill someone it's usually homicide, but if they attack you, and you get away and then go home and get a knife and come back, that's murder. Even if it's only five minutes later. And even if you only wanted to scare them into leaving you alone.

BarryD2

Mad all this Boy A / Boy B stuff.

Ana was the victim and the sad story of her life and death has been all over the print, broadcast and social media - the gory or salacious details generating clicks and print sales.

And what of the two little ******s convicted of murdering her? They get anonymity.

Some justice..

iamwhoiam

volchitsa wrote: »

From what I understand from reading about the case, that is a legal definition of murder. Because the harm was preplanned, and that led to her death, it doesn't matter much that they (perhaps) didn't actually intend to kill her.

Homicide has to be that you didn't intend to harm the person but it got out of hand. No preplanning. That's why if you get in a fight and kill someone it's usually homicide, but if they attack you, and you get away and then go home and get a knife and come back, that's murder. Even if it's only five minutes later. And even if you only wanted to scare them into leaving you alone.

I think you mean manslaughter not homicide

Stop moaning ffs

BarryD2 wrote: »

Mad all this Boy A / Boy B stuff.

Ana was the victim and the sad story of her life and death has been all over the print, broadcast and social media - the gory or salacious details generating clicks and print sales.

And what of the two little ******s convicted of murdering her? They get anonymity.

Some justice..

In case you missed it.
Parents of kids currently in oberstown have made their kids in there aware those lads are there. Those kids already know they’re there. Seems there’s been changes to accommodate them. But they aren’t mixing or allowed near the other kids there. And shifts seems to be working around them to protect them.
I say that’s fair enough. Mob justice is no justice. But something is going to leak at Some point.
Hopefully there’s no little scrote takes it upon themselves to act the hard man.
Let these two rot as long as possible.

Kidchameleon

BarryD2 wrote: »

And what of the two little ******s convicted of murdering her? They get anonymity.

Some justice..

This is thanks to rampant mob mentality

Kidchameleon

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

He had one and it was destroyed soon after the gardai initially called to the house I’d bet. With the footage of the assault on it.

Quite possible. But... would the guards have verified he lost two phones when he said he did? They must have checked with the network provider