Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

optogirl

Gatling wrote: »

Can't believe the Judge blocked evidence of boy (a) porn searches including childporn .


Can't see anything more than a few years ever being served unfortunately our judicial system is a joke at this stage

In fairness, if a 13 year old is looking at pictures of 13 year olds that's considered child porn. Most teenagers have porn on their phone so it's probably not much in the way of evidence of anything.

Faugheen

Somedaythefire wrote: »

I don't really know. It wasn't a point I made, I was just providing context.

Oh I know that, I was just trying to explain in a general legal sense why the images wouldn't be allowed to be shown in this particular case.

Reading through the legal argument now, and basically if the prosecution wanted to show the pornographic ones, they would have to balance it with the non-pornographic ones.

There was a six month time-lapse between when these were last accessed to when the murder happened. If it was much closer it would be a different story.

Essentially the probative value doesn't outweigh the prejudice it could cause.

tupenny

previous user wrote: »

Where they from a council estate?

No. They both come from " normal", "middle class " backgrounds

Somedaythefire

Faugheen wrote: »

Oh I know that, I was just trying to explain in a general legal sense why the images wouldn't be allowed to be shown in this particular case.

Reading through the legal argument now, and basically if the prosecution wanted to show the pornographic ones, they would have to balance it with the non-pornographic ones.

There was a six month time-lapse between when these were last accessed to when the murder happened. If it was much closer it would be a different story.

Essentially the probative value doesn't outweigh the prejudice it could cause.

That makes sense. Thanks for your view on it.

Hal3000

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Just read the thing about one of the contemptible pieces of sh1t saying she developed ahead of other girls and wore slutty clothes that emphasised her breasts. I was "wtf" and then I remembered all the abuse the girls aged 12 and 13 with big boobs got in my class (from boys AND girls) and how this made them "sluts".

Mad how toxic kids can be. And they don't lick it off the stones.

Again lack of accountability on all fronts of Irish society. Suspended sentences handed out left right and centre. Try suggesting punishing anti social behaviour here and watch the responses you get... Our social fabric is torn and we are doing zilch to address it. The youngsters are now fully aware of this and act with total impunity.

yourdeadwright

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

So would I, however I'd never abandon the child, no matter what the crime.

The thing is parents often can't think rationally about their own committing such heinous crime. They just refuse to believe it.

iv no sympathy for the boys , but I do for the parents ,

Without knowing the parents or how the boys where raised iv no idea what there home life was like but these things have been doen before by kids with great backgrounds and parents, Iv no idea if that is the case this time ,

The dad's outburst was not done int he right manner but as someone said previously god knows where his head was at when he done it ,

I don't think we can judge the parents without knowing anything about them ,

chicorytip

sbsquarepants wrote:

I would disown any off them in a heartbeat if they done something like this. I don't mean if they killed someone - there are plenty of understandable reasons to kill someone, but to lure someone to their deaths for sexual kicks - there is no way any person who would do something like that will ever be anything other than worthless shít.

This is a simplistic point of view. People react in different ways. I believe both these boys, in particular A, have severe psychiatric problems which may or may not be attributable to their background and upbringing. I don't think it's possible to describe a twelve or thirteen year old child as intrinsically evil.

Scotty #

Gatling wrote: »

Can't see anything more than a few years ever being served unfortunately our judicial system is a joke at this stage

I'm not a judge but as I understand it they were tried as adults and thus will be sentenced as adults. If that's the case then the mandatory sentence is life in prison and as they both pleaded not guilty, I don't think they will be eligible for probation.

EDIT: That does not mean they will spend the rest of their lives in prison! But AFAIK they will receive full life sentences (hopefully anyway!)

KM792

There was a photo doing the rounds on fb not so long ago...screenshot from whatsapp of one of the boys.
Does anyone remember seeing it?

Hal3000

Scotty # wrote: »

I'm not a judge but as I understand it they were tried as adults and thus will be sentenced as adults. If that's the case then the mandatory sentence is life in prison and as they both pleaded not guilty, I don't think they will be eligible for probation.

You do realise this crime occurred in Ireland right? Life??? No probation? Not in this country unfortunatley.

Stheno

Scotty # wrote: »

I'm not a judge but as I understand it they were tried as adults and thus will be sentenced as adults. If that's the case then the mandatory sentence is life in prison and as they both pleaded not guilty, I don't think they will be eligible for probation.

EDIT: That does not mean they will spend the rest of their lives in prison! But AFAIK they will receive full life sentences (hopefully anyway!)

It's not a mandatory life sentence for children

ohnonotgmail

Scotty # wrote: »

I'm not a judge but as I understand it they were tried as adults and thus will be sentenced as adults. If that's the case then the mandatory sentence is life in prison and as they both pleaded not guilty, I don't think they will be eligible for probation.

as they are still children the judge is not obliged to give them a life sentence. It would not be a first time a minor was not given a life sentence for murder. it has happened before. i linked to it earlier.

mariaalice

Why is there such resistance to the ideas the male role models in the boys life, in this case, their their father's attitudes, thoughts, and beliefs about women and female sexuality would influence the boys?. Even if the fathers never tallked directly to the boy about woman its there in everything how come their phone was not being monitored that says volumes about the parents.

Scotty #

Hal3000 wrote: »

You do realise this crime occurred in Ireland right? Life??? No probation? Not in this country unfortunatley.

I don't think the judge has an leeway here. But I could be wrong.

Mrsmum

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's human nature, I would have thought all parents would do same whether kids are guilty or not

I think if the guards came to my door connecting my son to something that awful, you may as well cart me off to St Pats and put me in a padded cell for ever more for there would no longer be a functioning person there anymore. I can't imagine how they can go on, how could you go to work, get other kids up for school etc, explain to the other kids. It must be the most complicated grief there is because I don't know but I imagine you would still love your murderer son too.

TheValeyard

Hal3000 wrote: »

Again lack of accountability on all fronts of Irish society. Suspended sentences handed out left right and centre. Try suggesting punishing anti social behaviour here and watch the responses you get... Our social fabric is torn and we are doing zilch to address it. The youngsters are now fully aware of this and act with total impunity.

There is no fear of consequences in young people in regards to the law. So they feel almost invincible and can get away with just about anything (because so many do) with various smaller crimes. Was only a matter of time before this elevated and morphed into murder. But I do think one of these two lads must be some way disturbed such was the brutality and savage nature of the attack and murder.

Thankfully crimes like this are extremely rare. Still feel sorry for all the families involved. Including the younger siblings of boy A, she must feel completely isolated in society. Lost her school, friends, house and now brother.

Hal3000

Scotty # wrote: »

I don't think the judge has an leeway here. But I could be wrong.

I'm sure leeway will be found. It usually is here...

Scotty #

Stheno wrote: »

It's not a mandatory life sentence for children

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

as they are still children the judge is not obliged to give them a life sentence. It would not be a first time a minor was not given a life sentence for murder. it has happened before. i linked to it earlier.

What's the logic in trying them as adults then?

Mahony0509

I know we criticize the Gardaí a lot but fair ****ing play to the officers who investigated this. Outstanding job and they served Ana’s family excellently.

LLMMLL

Small Wonder wrote: »

Gunnerpop wrote: »

I was at Ana's funeral and remember the sense of sadness at seeing all the pictures of her coming up on a screen of her just enjoying life. The speech by her aunt almost moved me to tears.

RIP.

I'm sorry for your loss.

He didn't know her. He's just some lookyloo who also tramped around the murder site getting off on grief.

El_Bee

I wonder, if she had not been so victimized and isolated, would she have been targeted by the two of them?

Stheno

Scotty # wrote: »

What's the logic in trying them as adults then?

Serious crimes such as murder are not tried in the children's court. However they are afforded all the protections of children even in the CCJ

Roger Hassenforder

Apparently its not mandatory life (according to Last Word legal experts)
Its discretionary, up to life.

blackwhite

Scotty # wrote: »

What's the logic in trying them as adults then?

Once someone is under 18 they are a child before the courts - "trying them as an adult" doesn't exist in Irish. It's shoddy journalism reporting it as such - that's all.

Beechwoodspark

Delighted to hear the murderers and their families were in floods of tears when verdict was announced

Then daddy dearest had a little tantrum and sulk over the Verdict. Fcuk him.

May they and their parents (for going along with this despicable charade) never have a moments peace for the rest of their lives.

iamwhoiam

yourdeadwright wrote: »

iv no sympathy for the boys , but I do for the parents ,

Without knowing the parents or how the boys where raised iv no idea what there home life was like but these things have been doen before by kids with great backgrounds and parents, Iv no idea if that is the case this time ,

The dad's outburst was not done int he right manner but as someone said previously god knows where his head was at when he done it ,

I don't think we can judge the parents without knowing anything about them ,

I would hope if my son did what these boys did that I would find the courage to respect the family of the victim . The father sat through the whole pitiful saga and heard about his sons role and yet his reaction was to scream abuse at the Gardai . ? Says a lot

Small Wonder

LLMMLL wrote: »

He didn't know her. He's just some lookyloo who also tramped around the murder site getting off on grief.

I know. That's what I was getting at.

Hal3000

I think we need mandatory anger management lessons in schools. So many aggressive little toerags about these days.

optogirl

Yes. Let's show these boys that bullying and murder are wrong by.... oh wait...

Boggles

tayto lover wrote: »

Boy B is just as guilty and probably more evil. Conniving little sh1t.

But far less evidence against him, so I can see why legally he would have taken his chances, which was my point.

As for "evil" top trumps.

I imagine the lad that brutally murdered and sexually assaulted her would be slightly more evil TBH.