Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

threeball

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

In case you missed it.
Parents of kids currently in oberstown have made their kids in there aware those lads are there. Those kids already know they’re there. Seems there’s been changes to accommodate them. But they aren’t mixing or allowed near the other kids there. And shifts seems to be working around them to protect them.
I say that’s fair enough. Mob justice is no justice. But something is going to leak at Some point.
Hopefully there’s no little scrote takes it upon themselves to act the hard man.
Let these two rot as long as possible.

They won't rot long in this country. It's be better for everyone if the scumbags met the end they deserve. I've no doubt they'll reoffend once released. The U.K. are trying to offload Venables to Canada because they couldn't be bothered minding him anymore. Paedophilia is his thing now so ship him off to some poor unsuspecting family to encounter.

LiamoSail

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

No blame on any parents. Any of them. Your kid might just well be a handful or a weirdly dark quiet one. It isn’t on you. Only so much any parent can do.

r.

There is only so much a parent can do, however that doesn't mean they're blameless. Some maybe but others certainly aren't. Being a parent is a responsibility and if you neglect that responsibility there should be repercussions.

Boy A was apparently accessing all sorts of illegal and unsuitable horror online. If it transpires that his parents made no effort or attempt to supervise or restrict his online activity then they should have questions to answer and should be held responsible for that neglect of their responsibility to their child.

Stop moaning ffs

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Quite possible. But... would the guards have verified he lost two phones when he said he did? They must have checked with the network provider

Safe to assume they would have asked for the numbers of both phones. Easily checked with the networks to check when they were last activated as we saw in the Dwyer case it can place you within a few meters.
Could well be he genuinely didn’t have a phone.
I find it hard to believe such a smart kid with an alpha role mindset and a best buddy didn’t have a phone or social media apps.

It stinks.

He filmed it and destroyed the phone after and disposed of it I reckon.

threeball

LiamoSail wrote: »

There is only so much a parent can do, however that doesn't mean they're blameless. Some maybe but others certainly aren't. Being a parent is a responsibility and if you neglect that responsibility there should be repercussions.

Boy A was apparently accessing all sorts of illegal and unsuitable horror online. If it transpires that his parents made no effort or attempt to supervise or restrict his online activity then they should have questions to answer and should be held responsible for that neglect of their responsibility to their child.

The fact they supported their kids entering a not guilty plea despite all the evidence tells me all I need to know about the parents in question.

Stop moaning ffs

threeball wrote: »

They won't rot long in this country. It's be better for everyone if the scumbags met the end they deserve. I've no doubt they'll reoffend once released. The U.K. are trying to offload Venables to Canada because they couldn't be bothered minding him anymore. Paedophilia is his thing now so ship him off to some poor unsuspecting family to encounter.

It’s a lose lose.
Say their names released tomorrow.
Then Look what happens next.
Their families made to suffer mob justice. House gets burned out. Dads can’t work their jobs. Even bigger drag on the state having to protect them and then out of the country relocate two entire families

And In all this Anas parents reminded of it all on the news. Every day. They’d take no satisfaction from that.

threeball

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s a lose lose.
Say their names released tomorrow.
Then Look what happens next.
Their families made to suffer mob justice. House gets burned out. Dads can’t work their jobs. Even bigger drag on the state having to protect them and then out of the country relocate two entire families

And In all this Anas parents reminded of it all on the news. Every day. They’d take no satisfaction from that.

I wouldn't care about the parents for the reasons outlined in my last post. The only justification in my book is if they have siblings. They don't deserve to suffer due to the actions of their scumbag brother.

volchitsa

threeball wrote: »

They won't rot long in this country. It's be better for everyone if the scumbags met the end they deserve. I've no doubt they'll reoffend once released. The U.K. are trying to offload Venables to Canada because they couldn't be bothered minding him anymore. Paedophilia is his thing now so ship him off to some poor unsuspecting family to encounter.

Is this true? I thought he was in prison again and that it would be for a good long while, given his past.

Stop moaning ffs

threeball wrote: »

I wouldn't care about the parents for the reasons outlined in my last post. The only justification in my book is if they have siblings. They don't deserve to suffer due to the actions of their scumbag brother.

We don’t know that their littles brothers or sisters didn’t suffer. The asshole bully in class is usually the same at home or anywhere he thinks himself bigger or better than those smaller than him or beneath him.

I can see a day way away that one of these families comes out and speaks on it all to own up to not spotting it and retelling what happened. We live in that age now.

LiamoSail

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s a lose lose.
Say their names released tomorrow.
Then Look what happens next.
Their families made to suffer mob justice. House gets burned out. Dads can’t work their jobs. Even bigger drag on the state having to protect them and then out of the country relocate two entire families

And In all this Anas parents reminded of it all on the news. Every day. They’d take no satisfaction from that.

Id say their families are getting that anyway. There can't be a soul in the parish who doesn't know who they are.

threeball

volchitsa wrote: »

Is this true? I thought he was in prison again and that it would be for a good long while, given his past.

Yes it was in the news the other day. The good ol Brits, won't take responsibility for their terrorists that they exported and now want to ship out their child murdering paedophiles too.

tuxy

threeball wrote: »

Yes it was in the news the other day. The good ol Brits, won't take responsibility for their terrorists that they exported and now want to ship out their child murdering paedophiles too.

I do hope the other countries are not foolish enough to except the relocation. The PM of New Zealand has already said it will be rejected if he makes a request. Astonishing lack of responsibility from the UK.

Hannibal_Smith

Kidchameleon wrote: »

This is thanks to rampant mob mentality

If this is true surely every defendant would be anonymous??

volchitsa

threeball wrote: »

Yes it was in the news the other day. The good ol Brits, won't take responsibility for their terrorists that they exported and now want to ship out their child murdering paedophiles too.

I just looked that up, flips sake, they have some nerve don't they?

However I am relieved to see that both Canada and the NZ PM Jacinda Arden have made it clear that won't be happening.

Federal government dismisses reports that notorious U.K. child killer could be relocated to Canada

Australia was also suggested it seems, so maybe it's time for the old joke about the guy filling in an immigration form for Australia who, when asked if he had any criminal convictions, replied "Is that still necessary?"

CollyFlower

tuxy wrote: »

I do hope the other countries are not foolish enough to except the relocation. The PM of New Zealand has already said it will be rejected if he makes a request. Astonishing lack of responsibility from the UK.

Who knows, there may already be this type of agreement between counties... Could be something that's been happening for years.... 'We'll take yours, you take ours'"

Stop moaning ffs

So more lives destroyed

All four parents have missed time off work. Their colleagues aren’t thick and will join the dots. So that’s another wats it’ll get out.
They probably be shunned at work and lives made unbearable.
No idea how moving a family overseas to protect them even works.
Has it ever happened that Ireland had to do it?

I hope they get moved if the reports of one of them being threatened are to be believed. They didn’t do this. They shouldn’t have to be punished by the mob for it. Leave and forget their evil kin behind and don’t look back.

Omackeral

Kidchameleon wrote: »

This is thanks to rampant mob mentality

If that's the case then no murderer ever would be named.

gozunda

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Safe to assume they would have asked for the numbers of both phones. Easily checked with the networks to check when they were last activated as we saw in the Dwyer case it can place you within a few meters.
Could well be he genuinely didn’t have a phone.
I find it hard to believe such a smart kid with an alpha role mindset and a best buddy didn’t have a phone or social media apps.
It stinks.
He filmed it and destroyed the phone after and disposed of it I reckon.

Not that difficult imo. Most of boy A's relevant internet searches on his phone and downloaded images were dated to at the earliest some months before the murder.

It would not have been strange if boy B's internet access and use of a smart phone etc could have dated to the same period.

Father of boy B says that the son lost two mobile phones. So possible either phone(s) were confiscated by the parents due to accessing porn and violence

Or just as likley boy B told his parents that the phone(s) were lost - and boy A & B used phone with a new pay as you go sim card

Gardai would have had no usable leads from this tbh

threeball

volchitsa wrote: »

I just looked that up, flips sake, they have some nerve don't they?

However I am relieved to see that both Canada and the NZ PM Jacinda Arden have made it clear that won't be happening.

Federal government dismisses reports that notorious U.K. child killer could be relocated to Canada

Australia was also suggested it seems, so maybe it's time for the old joke about the guy filling in an immigration form for Australia who, when asked if he had any criminal convictions, replied "Is that still necessary?"

They'll just unload him on some poor country that can't afford to watch the cnut and he'll do his damage there.

Kidchameleon

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

If this is true surely every defendant would be anonymous??

Many many posts this thread wish violence against these boys and their family. There have already been attacks on their family's. That is why they are anonymous. Few cases bring out the mob like this one so no, not every defendant needs to be anonymous. The ironic thing is, we would know who they were and be able to protect ourselves if it were not for the vigilantes who want to "protect" us

threeball

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

So more lives destroyed

All four parents have missed time off work. Their colleagues aren’t thick and will join the dots. So that’s another wats it’ll get out.
They probably be shunned at work and lives made unbearable.
No idea how moving a family overseas to protect them even works.
Has it ever happened that Ireland had to do it?

I hope they get moved if the reports of one of them being threatened are to be believed. They didn’t do this. They shouldn’t have to be punished by the mob for it. Leave and forget their evil kin behind and don’t look back.

If they wanted to be treated decently after the trial then they should have behaved with decency. Don't stand by and watch as their child doubles down on his bad decisions and drags the Krigels through a trial and also deny them the truth. If nothing else they empowered their sons to do that. I have no sympathy for the parents. Siblings would be a different story.

tuxy

I still imagine it's very possible that parents of Boy B are in denial. It's easy to see how guilty he is when you look at it objectively. But when you look at it from the point of view that his is the boy you raised for 14 years, it's not so easy.

Stop moaning ffs

gozunda wrote: »

Not that difficult imo. Most of boy A's relevant internet searches on his phone and downloaded images were dated to at the earliest some months before the murder.

It would not have been strange if boy B's internet access and use of a smart phone etc could have dated to the same period.

Father of boy B says that the son lost two mobile phones. So possible either phone(s) were confiscated by the parents due to accessing porn and violence

Or just as likley boy B told his parents that the phone(s) were lost - and boy A & B used phone with a new pay as you go sim card

Gardai would have had no usable leads from this tbh

Safe to assume gardai asked Bs parents when did he last have a phone. Did they? No report on that.
He genuinely might not have had one in a while and lost his last one prior to all this.
That’s the bit that dangles for me. The gardai were obviously satisfied with the answer especially as they were desperate to get harder evidence against him in particular.

From my own families kids and friends kids that age, it just rings utterly hollow that he didn’t have one. That’s perception bias perhaps but kids these days are glued to their phones and film everything.
Sort of odd if not outright unlikely this one kid in this particular case, didn’t.

No interest in making this worse. It just makes more sense that he filmed all this and he’s disposed of it when heat came on him.

Stop moaning ffs

threeball wrote: »

If they wanted to be treated decently after the trial then they should have behaved with decency. Don't stand by and watch as their child doubles down on his bad decisions and drags the Krigels through a trial and also deny them the truth. If nothing else they empowered their sons to do that. I have no sympathy for the parents. Siblings would be a different story.

What do you do in that instance?
He calls her slutty in an interview, you lean over and clatter him on camera?
They were being held in police stations at that point. It’s not like you could parent within normal realms whichever form they take in your house.
What can you do?

threeball

tuxy wrote: »

I still imagine it's very possible that parents of Boy B are in denial. It's easy to see how guilty he is when you look at it objectively. But when you look at it from the point of view that his is the boy you raised for 14 years, it's not so easy.

If it were a few weeks ago I'd accept that. They've had over a year to dissect the events and months to absorb the evidence of a case file yet they still backed a not guilty plea and B's father lashed out in court when things didn't go their way.

tuxy

Well his parents had got him a basic phone so they could contact with him but he just left it at home most the time.
I know people who are young (though not as young as him) that just hate to carry a phone around.
I'd be really surprised if he didn't at least have the use of a tablet or pc at home. There's no mention of anything like that though.

Suckit

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

There was a witness who said he saw a Boy, who the police believe to be Boy A walking through the park and limping, I think he said he had blood on his clothes too, but not sure about that. So it appears Boy A was injured before he got home.
Regarding the time lines. They say that Mrs Kriegel called Ana's phone about 5.40 and they believed any had already been murdered by then. I think Boy A was seen about 5.50. But did they see Boy B leaving? Is there no CCTV or witness statement showing when he left the park and when? Was there time for them to agree a story then?

There was CCTV footage and a witness saw Boy B
Geraldine Kriegél called Ana at 5:10pm and it went straight to voicemail, that was a few minutes before they made it to the house they were seen on CCTV at 5:14pm crossing the field.
Ana’s phone pings off a mast on the Lucan side of the park where she was last seen alive. BOY A’s phone was pinging off the same mast at the same time, that was at 5:32pm (Boy B had no phone that anybody knows of).
CCTV shows BOY B coming back into view of cameras at BMX track at 5:49pm. He appears to be walking towards the ranger’s hut. He had been absent since 5.16pm and couldn't account for that 33 minutes absence during his Garda interviews. Boy A was caught on the same CCTV a few minutes after.
CCTV shows BOY B near ranger’s hut at 5:56pm.

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

As to these two. It just feels like they had a plan and B broke the trust and thought he was smarter.

I think the only reason Boy B spoke, was because the first time he made a statement to the Gardaí he was with his mother and it was to help them retrace Ana's steps and help find her. At that stage, he may have thought he could mislead the Gardaí away from the house and him.
The statements he made after that were to explain why he had lied in the first statement, and then the next lie etc..

Boy A got back to his friends house limping and blood on his t-shirt, and was visibly shaken and pale. He told his friend that he got jumped on in the park - That was a 5:55pm.
He then returned home at 6pm and his mother also said he was 'very pale and shaking', she also saw the blood on his clothes.
At 6:15, himself and his father went to the park to try and find the two men that jumped him. He made a complaint to the park ranger who described Boy A as looking like a 'rabbit caught in headlights'.

It has been mentioned a few times how visibly shaken Boy A looked, yet nobody has said at any time how shaken or pale Boy B looked, and he's the one who said he had to run away from the house because he was scared.
Doesn't sound like he was all that scared, hanging around the park rangers hut (allegedly looking for water), then went home did his homework and went up to watch anime in his room. When the Gardaí called later that same evening, there is no mention of him looking worried at all.

threeball

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

What do you do in that instance?
He calls her slutty in an interview, you lean over and clatter him on camera?
They were being held in police stations at that point. It’s not like you could parent within normal realms whichever form they take in your house.
What can you do?

This is about more than one interview. They had a year to get him to tell the truth. Maybe he did tell them yet they chose to cover it up. Either way they're culpable. You tell them if you take this route you're on your own. No support, no prison visits, no more family. Tell the truth or you're on your own. They accepted lie after lie.

Stop moaning ffs

Suckit wrote: »

There was CCTV footage and a witness saw Boy B
Geraldine Kriegél called Ana at 5:10pm and it went straight to voicemail, that was a few minutes before they made it to the house they were seen on CCTV at 5:14pm crossing the field.
Ana’s phone pings off a mast on the Lucan side of the park where she was last seen alive. BOY A’s phone was pinging off the same mast at the same time, that was at 5:32pm (Boy B had no phone that anybody knows of).
CCTV shows BOY B coming back into view of cameras at BMX track at 5:49pm. He appears to be walking towards the ranger’s hut. He had been absent since 5.16pm and couldn't account for that 33 minutes absence during his Garda interviews. Boy A was caught on the same CCTV a few minutes after.
CCTV shows BOY B near ranger’s hut at 5:56pm.

I think the only reason Boy B spoke, was because the first time he made a statement to the Gardaí he was with his mother and it was to help them retrace Ana's steps and help find her. At that stage, he may have thought he could mislead the Gardaí away from the house and him.
The statements he made after that were to explain why he had lied in the first statement, and then the next lie etc..

Boy A got back to his friends house limping and blood on his t-shirt, and was visibly shaken and pale. He told his friend that he got jumped on in the park - That was a 5:55pm.
He then returned home at 6pm and his mother also said he was 'very pale and shaking', she also saw the blood on his clothes.
At 6:15, himself and his father went to the park to try and find the two men that jumped him. He made a complaint to the park ranger who described Boy A as looking like a 'rabbit caught in headlights'.

It has been mentioned a few times how visibly shaken Boy A looked, yet nobody has said at any time how shaken or pale Boy B looked, and he's the one who said he had to run away from the house because he was scared.
Doesn't sound like he was all that scared, hanging around the park rangers hut (allegedly looking for water), then went home did his homework and went up to watch anime in his room. When the Gardaí called later that same evening, there is no mention of him lloking worried at all.

Fvck

I hadn’t seen that. Thanks. That just deepens the rabbit hole.

Countless people here defending B.
There’s 30 minutes he can’t account for and his normal af when he gets home

CollyFlower

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Safe to assume gardai asked Bs parents when did he last have a phone. Did they? No report on that.
He genuinely might not have had one in a while and lost his last one prior to all this.
That’s the bit that dangles for me. The gardai were obviously satisfied with the answer especially as they were desperate to get harder evidence against him in particular.

From my own families kids and friends kids that age, it just rings utterly hollow that he didn’t have one. That’s perception bias perhaps but kids these days are glued to their phones and film everything.
Sort of odd if not outright unlikely this one kid in this particular case, didn’t.

No interest in making this worse. It just makes more sense that he filmed all this and he’s disposed of it when heat came on him.

If he did have a phone, after he murdered Ana, surely there are people who would see him with one, like, his mates, classmates!.. Wouldn't he stand out for not having one and it's something his peers would notice.

Stop moaning ffs

CollyFlower wrote: »

If he did have a phone, after he murdered Ana, surely there are people who would see him with one, like, his mates, classmates!.. Wouldn't he stand out for not having one and it's something his peers would notice.

He and A were bullies. How often does a kid stare at his bullies to notice? You try avoid their attention not attract it.

Saw it mentioned earlier that B confided in a classmate that they did it but haven’t seen that anywhere else. Possible bragging about it? They all seemed to be giving her a hard time