Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Omackeral

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Many many posts this thread wish violence against these boys and their family. There have already been attacks on their family's. That is why they are anonymous. Few cases bring out the mob like this one so no, not every defendant needs to be anonymous. The ironic thing is, we would know who they were and be able to protect ourselves if it were not for the vigilantes who want to "protect" us

Wrong. It's because they're underage.

Under Irish law, a child over the age of ten can be charged with more serious offences such as murder, manslaughter, rape and aggravated sexual assault.

According to Courts Service directions, the trial process should not itself expose young defendants to “avoidable intimidation, humiliation or distress”.

“Young defendants accused of committing serious crimes may be vulnerable due to their age, level of maturity or disability when standing trial in the children’s court.”

For these reasons, and because Irish and European laws dictate it, the ordinary trial processes in relation to children are adapted to ensure due regard to the welfare of the young defendant.

This is why members of the public were excluded from this trial. Only officers of the court, relatives of the children involved, witnesses and members of the press were permitted to sit in the courtroom to hear the evidence.

Under the Children’s Act 2001 (amended by the Criminal Justice Act 2006), no report can be published or included in a broadcast which reveals the name, address or school of any child concerned in the proceedings.

iamwhoiam

Boy B father stated that B lost two smart phones so he was given a non smart phone instead . He had a phone just not a smart phone

Stop moaning ffs

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Boy B father stated that B lost two smart phones so he was given a non smart phone instead . He had a phone just not a smart phone

Aware of that. Just seems very very convenient no? As well as unlikely in the modern context.

He knew anime (gruesome and brutal quite often) what was he watching it on?
No mention of his laptop if he ever had one.

He wasn’t watching it on a regular phone. He’d need a smartphone

tuxy

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

He wasn’t watching it on a regular phone. He’d need a smartphone

Or a smart TV, which most TVs are these days.

iamwhoiam

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Aware of that. Just seems very very convenient no? As well as unlikely in the modern context.

He knew anime (gruesome and brutal quite often) what was he watching it on?
No mention of his laptop if he ever had one.

He wasn’t watching it on a regular phone. He’d need a smartphone

Plus B was not exactly a truthful young man so every word he speaks has the potential to be a lie

CollyFlower

Even a non smartphone can access the internet and take pictures and videos..... I guess there wasn't anything on it to incriminate him when the police examined it 10 days after the murder.

Monumental

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Pretty much everyone else sank that low by blaming B's dad.... for the record I do not blame Patric, I was trying to illustrate what blaming an innocent person can do. B's dad has suffered enough and doesnt need a gang of keyboard warriors saying he should be locked up with his son. The only people responsible are A & B.

RIP Ana.

I dont blame boy B's dad but I do think he should have kept his mouth shut in court and had respect for Ana's parents He needs to accept his son committed a horrible murder and as his parent perhaps should have been aware of his sons activities both online and on a daily basis

CollyFlower

Monumental wrote: »

I dont blame boy B's dad but I do think he should have kept his mouth shut in court and had respect for Ana's parents He needs to accept his son committed a horrible murder and as his parent perhaps should have been aware of his sons activities both online and on a daily basis

I can kinda understand his outburst, no parent wants to believe that their child could do something like that, he's probably still in denial. .. Give him time and he'll come around and accept the truth.

Monumental

threeball wrote: »

This is about more than one interview. They had a year to get him to tell the truth. Maybe he did tell them yet they chose to cover it up. Either way they're culpable. You tell them if you take this route you're on your own. No support, no prison visits, no more family. Tell the truth or you're on your own. They accepted lie after lie.

Did they really accept those lies ! Any parent who spends time with their child/teen knows when they are lying straight away .I cannot get my head around him pleading not guilty

LiamoSail

Monumental wrote: »

Did they really accept those lies ! Any parent who spends time with their child/teen knows when they are lying straight away .I cannot get my head around him pleading not guilty

Legally, there's no incentive to plead guilty to a murder charge as there's no leniency afforded for doing so, as there is with other charges.

Morally, it's dispicible. But that obviously isn't an issue for either family.

Monumental

CollyFlower wrote: »

I can kinda understand his outburst, no parent wants to believe that their child could do something like that, he's probably still in denial. .. Give him time and he'll come around and accept the truth.

If it was a few weeks after the murder I might understand it ..One year on and I think dad knows the truth of his boys actions ,have a bit of respect for Ana and her parents . Seek further legal advise if you think your boy has been wronged

pablo128

CollyFlower wrote: »

I can kinda understand his outburst, no parent wants to believe that their child could do something like that, he's probably still in denial. .. Give him time and he'll come around and accept the truth.

He was cute enough to wait until the judge had left the court before he started mouthing off. At best he's an insensitive muppet. He knew the Kriegels were sitting there.

mrjoneill

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Chilling that he didn’t.

I wondered about both his and Bs parents. How to get that time for court off work.

What are they doing now.

How is it Bs(?) family have had to move? Neither family should have to but as evidenced in this thread they probably have been forced to.

It’s heartbreaking all of it. I wouldn’t even visit him if he was mine. I just wouldn’t. They’ll get out when they get out and is blank him then too.
Ideally.
Same time you’re always going to love your son.
They won’t come out of prison in any single way that’s compatible with normality and day to day. Not up to us to call judgement. They have to live the rest of their lives with a horrific call they made as kids. And rightly so.

Mortgages have to be paid, food has to be put on the table, clothes have to be washed and cleaned and life has to go on no matter the circumstance which can't be easy.

I too would find it very hard to assoc with him if he was my son, I deffo would not be holding his hand in court or he leaning on me. I just wouldn't trust him. In the case of Boy B not only been part of the murder but lied & lied & inc to protect Boy A to exonerate him, has lost all trusts. I would feel he was winding me too. Don't know about going to see him in detention but I would make it clear the winding died a death the day he was invol in Ana's death. Everything would be on my terms from then on. U could not be true to yourself if you did otherwise and I would want a full account of what he did, just to let him know where I was at. Boy B thinks he is too smarts for everyone and I would imagine he is still in that territory.


As for Boy A parents, its incomprehensible how one could have any friendship with someone capable of such evil. I would feel dirty after it. He not only planned and executed the deed but carried on after it as if nothing happened. He spend 30 min battering a naive girl to death and then sexually assaulted her and he was only 13. You couldn't turn your back to someone so evil. I would feel I was letting Ana down by assoc. His crime can't be ever forgiven. He seems to have a generous forgiving grandfather who bailed him out for Christmas to where he lived which was outside the Lexlip-Lucan area.

mrjoneill

LiamoSail wrote: »

Legally, there's no incentive to plead guilty to a murder charge as there's no leniency afforded for doing so, as there is with other charges.

Morally, it's dispicible. But that obviously isn't an issue for either family.

Conviction for murder is a mandatory life under Common Law, but the Children's Act gives the trial judge powers to what this actual detention time should be. They can even bring it back for review in a set period. What is not clear in the Children's Act is do those found guilty of murder remain on license when released from detention.

gozunda

pablo128 wrote: »

He was cute enough to wait until the judge had left the court before he started mouthing off. At best he's an insensitive muppet. He knew the Kriegels were sitting there.

According to a couple of newspaper reports he started mouthing off whilst the judge was thanking the jury. He then stormed out only to return - when the judge had left. Imo he was left off lightly to do that in a court of law and in full hearing of the Kreigel family

LiamoSail

mrjoneill wrote: »

Mortgages have to be paid, food has to be put on the table, clothes have to be washed and cleaned and life has to go on no matter the circumstance which can't be easy.

I too would find it very hard to assoc with him if he was my son, I deffo would not be holding his hand in court or he leaning on me. I just wouldn't trust him. In the case of Boy B not only been part of the murder but lied & lied & inc to protect Boy A to exonerate him, has lost all trusts. I would feel he was winding me too. Don't know about going to see him in detention but I would make it clear the winding died a death the day he was invol in Ana's death. Everything would be on my terms from then on. U could not be true to yourself if you did otherwise and I would want a full account of what he did, just to let him know where I was at. Boy B thinks he is too smarts for everyone and I would imagine he is still in that territory.


As for Boy A parents, its incomprehensible how one could have any friendship with someone capable of such evil. I would feel dirty after it. He not only planned and executed the deed but carried on after it as if nothing happened. He spend 30 min battering a naive girl to death and then sexually assaulted her and he was only 13. You couldn't turn your back to someone so evil. I would feel I was letting Ana down by assoc. His crime can't be ever forgiven. He seems to have a generous forgiving grandfather who bailed him out for Christmas to where he lived which was outside the Lexlip-Lucan area.

It's a horrible thing for any family to experience. I thought the family of Jastine Valdez's killer did it with remarkable respect and sympathy for their son's victim.

I think the parents in this case are right to stand by their kids. They certainly shouldn't be complicit in the attempted cover up by their sons that they appear to have been, but standing by them is another matter.

Regardless of everything, these are still kids. God only knows what got in to them or prompted them to do what they did. This killing will define those boys forever, but the parents are right to be there for their kids and do everything possible in aiding their reform. They still have that responsibility to the their children

mrjoneill

LiamoSail wrote: »

It's a horrible thing for any family to experience. I thought the family of Jastine Valdez's killer did it with remarkable respect and sympathy for their son's victim.

I think the parents in this case are right to stand by their kids. They certainly shouldn't be complicit in the attempted cover up by their sons that they appear to have been, but standing by them is another matter.

Regardless of everything, these are still kids. God only knows what got in to them or prompted them to do what they did. This killing will define those boys forever, but the parents are right to be there for their kids and do everything possible in aiding their reform. They still have that responsibility to the their children

What is standing by them, is it saying its ok what they did. Is unconditional love saying that. Quite honest I could never get my head around dealing with the perpetrator of such a criminal act esp what Boy A did. I see it different than gun crime typical of teenagers in the US, while it all ends up with the loss of life but shooting has a more remote aspect to it. Where someone kills one with beating them to death over a prolonged period after obv a pre-planning they cant be but sadistic and in this case a totally innocent naive victim.

Stop moaning ffs

You’d have to wonder were either of them honest with their parents. From here it looks like B at least continued to lie to them. Possibly leading to his fathers outburst.

It’s probably naive to think both sets didn’t ask them for the truth and what happened at some point. They both probably continued to lie.
I’m not sure i could stand by either of them in the court as a parent. I don’t have kids though.

Hannibal_Smith

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Many many posts this thread wish violence against these boys and their family. There have already been attacks on their family's. That is why they are anonymous. Few cases bring out the mob like this one so no, not every defendant needs to be anonymous. The ironic thing is, we would know who they were and be able to protect ourselves if it were not for the vigilantes who want to "protect" us

Yeah so the mob mentality as endangered everyone :rolleyes:

Nothing to do with the fact that these animals by their own actions pose a threat.

Hannibal_Smith

mrjoneill wrote: »

What is standing by them, is it saying its ok what they did. Is unconditional love saying that. Quite honest I could never get my head around dealing with the perpetrator of such a criminal act esp what Boy A did. I see it different than gun crime typical of teenagers in the US, while it all ends up with the loss of life but shooting has a more remote aspect to it. Where someone kills one with beating them to death over a prolonged period after obv a pre-planning they cant be but sadistic and in this case a totally innocent naive victim.

I think it's one of those situations where you don't know what you'd do unless you're there. I couldn't imagine my son leaning on my shoulder for support and me rejecting him. For me to do that I have to imagine he did something as atrociously wrong as this. I can't even do that. Not that I think he can do no wrong but my brain or imagination can't even go there.

Dirkziggler

When is the sentencing date?

splinter65

pablo128 wrote: »

He was cute enough to wait until the judge had left the court before he started mouthing off. At best he's an insensitive muppet. He knew the Kriegels were sitting there.

He sees the Kriegels as his enemies.
In his head, their dead daughter is causing him all this inconvenience. And really, if she hadn’t been such a slut and a weirdo, she’d still be alive today.

Stop moaning ffs

Seems to me he was probably known to gardai hence their address being on pulse. And the way he blanked them when the mother and son were at the door.
Would also help explain his outburst.

Kidchameleon

splinter65 wrote: »

He sees the Kriegels as his enemies.
In his head, their dead daughter is causing him all this inconvenience.
And really, if she hadn’t been such a slut and a weirdo, she’d still be alive today.

Thats very unfair. He is an innocent man and loving father who has had his son taken from him for god knows how many years. His outburst was raw emotion the levels of which you or I will never understand thankfully. Yes the Kriegels were there to see it but they are so strong, it would have been nothing to them and they probably understand the emotions he was feeling better than you think

Kidchameleon

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Seems to me he was probably known to gardai hence their address being on pulse. And the way he blanked them when the mother and son were at the door.
Would also help explain his outburst.

I dont know much about pulse. How does one end up on it? Is there any innocent way to be put on it? Say having been burgled for example?

Dirkziggler

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I dont know much about pulse. How does one end up on it? Is there any innocent way to be put on it? Say having been burgled for example?

Any interactions with AGS is logged on Pulse. If you are a victim in a crime, applying for passport, everyone has a pulse ID

dudara

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I dont know much about pulse. How does one end up on it? Is there any innocent way to be put on it? Say having been burgled for example?

Most interactions with the Gardaí results in a Pulse record. So yes, it’s entirely possible to have one for completely innocent reasons. It doesn’t automatically mean that you are “known to Gardaí” as we like to say in ireland.

Stop moaning ffs

Dirkziggler wrote: »

Any interactions with AGS is logged on Pulse. If you are a victim in a crime, applying for passport, everyone has a pulse ID

Wasn’t aware of that. My apologies about the assumption on the father.

corpusvile

CollyFlower wrote: »

After all they did they just seemed to carry on as normal, for like 10 days, I think it was 10 days after Ana was found that they were charged.

"act normal like nothing happened"
Seems those helpful rules from their homework club came in handy for them.

iamwhoiam

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Thats very unfair. He is an innocent man and loving father who has had his son taken from him for god knows how many years. His outburst was raw emotion the levels of which you or I will never understand thankfully. Yes the Kriegels were there to see it but they are so strong, it would have been nothing to them and they probably understand the emotions he was feeling better than you think

It would have been nothing to them ? Are you actually series ? How would you know how the Kriegels feel or what upsets them . Have some little grain of empathy. How disrespectful to second guess a grieving families emotions