Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Suckit

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

This is all assuming they won’t launch an appeal one or both of them.

I'm not sure, but I doubt Boy A could appeal. The case against him was faultless. I would imagine if he (or mayber either) tried to appeal it, and were still found guilty, the Judge might go even harsher on them for putting the Kriégels through that.

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Good point. Never thought of that.
They’re only minutes away from us regardless of the prison.
What comes after is the thing.
No way their identities remain secret when that transfer happens. If they are t revealed before then.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0627/1057828-niall-o-connor/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/journalist-alleged-to-have-named-one-of-ana-kri%C3%A9gel-s-killers-on-radio-1.3939343


From last week when the Journalist allegedly named one of them twice.
That recording is probably already in the wild (as are their names and photos anyway).

Neyite

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s weird we don’t have an exchange program with the uk or Europe for these cases. Put them overseas in youth detention there to protect their identities rather than them being transferred to mountjoy at 18 and a random Garda or prison guard alerting the press to their names and identities. Which is what will happen come the time.

It's probably to do with their civil/ human rights to be able to receive visits from family members or friends while incarcerated.

Hannibal_Smith

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Something I have thought about is they must have approached her or spoken to her prior to B knocking into her. Then the video and pic on her phone of her tied to a chair and blindfolded. There’s a connection between those two things I’d say. Could they have put her up to it?

Mrs Kriegel had the password to Ana's phone and checked it regularly. So unless she deleted any messages, or it was all done in person, I don't think there is a connection in that respect

RoryMac

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s weird we don’t have an exchange program with the uk or Europe for these cases. Put them overseas in youth detention there to protect their identities rather than them being transferred to mountjoy at 18 and a random Garda or prison guard alerting the press to their names and identities. Which is what will happen come the time.

The press already know their names, they would have been given in court which is why it was closed to the public.

If the judge has ordered them not to be released no newspaper will break that order

Omackeral

RoryMac wrote: »

The press already know their names, they would have been given in court which is why it was closed to the public.

If the judge has ordered them not to be released no newspaper will break that order

Defo this. If you or me could get their names by firing off a few messages then any journalist worth their salt could too.

LollipopJimmy

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s weird we don’t have an exchange program with the uk or Europe for these cases. Put them overseas in youth detention there to protect their identities rather than them being transferred to mountjoy at 18 and a random Garda or prison guard alerting the press to their names and identities. Which is what will happen come the time.

Nobody needs to leak their names to the press, the press are well aware already having had journalists in the courtroom and every other way possible. They simply can't publish their names or any identifying info.

Sure I saw their names and faces on FB the day of the verdict and so did thousands of other people

iamwhoiam

RoryMac wrote: »

The press already know their names, they would have been given in court which is why it was closed to the public.

If the judge has ordered them not to be released no newspaper will break that order

The dogs on the streets in Leixlip also know their names

washman3

Neyite wrote: »

It's probably to do with their civil/ human rights to be able to receive visits from family members or friends while incarcerated.

Doubt if these 2 scrotes have any 'friends' that wish to visit them.

Actually if any parent in that area have teenagers that are still friends with these convicted murderers they urgently need to seek professional help for them.

Stop moaning ffs

I meant the press at the time when they turn 18 and get transferred. Nothin stopping the press at that time or any prison guards leaking it.

BattleCorp

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I meant the press at the time when they turn 18 and get transferred. Nothin stopping the press at that time or any prison guards leaking it.

Contempt of court legislation would come down hard on anybody found to be leaking their names. Their names can't be released even when they turn 18. Their identity is protected for life.

mrjoneill

corpusvile wrote: »

I was attempting flippancy which doesn't always carry over well on the internet so my apologies.

According to Boy B it was a homework club which his schoolmates verified according to the IT article. A homework club with decidedly weird sounding rules re acting normally as if nothing happened but a homework club nonetheless with the Satanic thing just to dissuade others from joining. (As homework clubs are apparently very popular with today's teenagers with queues of prospective members probably out the door.)

To clarify I don't believe Satanism or the occult had anything to do with Ana's murder but I'd also take the homework club explanation with a grain of salt even if it was verified by other teens.

There are reports in other social media that there was an attempt to get more of their peers involved in the conspiracy to murder Ana's. There is also reports that these 2 made life hell in bullying Ana and were the main instigators. Could well be why Ana's mother Geraldine had all alarm bells going off when she found out who called for her.

mrjoneill

LiamoSail wrote: »

If you bring a child into the world you have a responsibility to them. That doesn't end because you don't like how they turned out at the age of 13. Their parents do have a responsibility to do everything in their power to assist their child in reforming.

I'm not saying they should have acted as they did in aiding the deceit, just that the kids remain their responsibility and they have no right to walk away from that responsibility

Would you sleep in the same house as Boy A with bedroom door open?

juno10353

Did boy B tell his name to Ana's father, or how did parents know name to give police.

iamwhoiam

juno10353 wrote: »

Did boy B tell his name to Ana's father, or how did parents know name to give police.

As far as I remember Anas brother recognized him .

Hannibal_Smith

juno10353 wrote: »

Did boy B tell his name to Ana's father, or how did parents know name to give police.

I think he knew Boy B's first name and they looked on fb to try and find his surname?

Hannibal_Smith

mrjoneill wrote: »

There are reports in other social media that there was an attempt to get more of their peers involved in the conspiracy to murder Ana's. There is also reports that these 2 made life hell in bullying Ana and were the main instigators. Could well be why Ana's mother Geraldine had all alarm bells going off when she found out who called for her.

Maybe you're right. I wonder was there a possibility of Boy B recording it to shie the audience, if he did record it.

mrjoneill

splinter65 wrote: »

The 16 year old boy Aaron Campbell found guilty in April of abducting raping and murdering a 6 year old girl on the island of Bhute last year was supported by his mother every day in court.
She even met his demand that she buy him a tartan suit to wear.
He too protested his innocence ferociously AND not only testified on his own behalf in the witness box but blamed a totally innocent person naming her and pointing her out in court in a slanderous allegation.
His mother totally accepted the decision of the jury and he has since admitted his guilt in totality.
She has not suffered any vigilantism and has returned to the tiny island to live in close proximity to the family of his victim.
Despite originally telling the media that she wouldn’t disown him, the prison where he’s being held has said that he has had no visitors since he arrived.

I understand he was locked up in his cell 23hrs of the day with a TV & a games console. Big comedown for an A student with a girlfriend and a prison awaiting him in less than 2yrs and this is being housed separately from the general prison population. Don't know how this monster could ever be released and to how he lied at his trial and doing his best to implicate an totally innocent person.

mrjoneill

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Maybe you're right. I wonder was there a possibility of Boy B recording it to shie the audience, if he did record it.

I have no evidence to this only what other have stated. Central to these satanic things is the offering of human life which could be well be part of it. I have no doubt for Boy A the sex assault was big part of it and for Boy B the voyeurism of it all in he stayed to watch to the end.

Rubberchikken

i think these two boys are products of their parents in particular their fathers.
the more i read about their fathers the more i feel they have not been the best male examples these boys coukd have had.

mrjoneill

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

I think he knew Boy B's first name and they looked on fb to try and find his surname?

I believe it was a combination of things in Ana's brother and Facebook to put a name on him. They did not know where he lived.

tuxy

Rubberchikken wrote: »

i think these two boys are products of their parents in particular their fathers.
the more i read about their fathers the more i feel they have not been the best male examples these boys coukd have had.

What do we know about the parents outside of the case?
Can you give more details without identifying them?

mrjoneill

LiamoSail wrote: »

And what about the parents? Things haven't turned out as they hoped so they get to just wash their hands and pass the buck on to the state alone?

That might be the easy option for them but as a parent to a child they have a responsibility to put their child's interests ahead of their own and that means doing everything possible to reform the child.

If you bring a child into the world you have a responsibility to them at least until they reach adulthood.

I don't mean they should condone the crime or seek to excuse their child of blame, but instead focus on the child's rehabilitation

Central to any relationship is trust, how could anyone trust the two and how could avoid not thinking on seeing them to what these piece of filth did not only to a totally innocent naive girl but to themselves and their families without any guilt.

LiamoSail

mrjoneill wrote: »

Central to any relationship is trust, how could anyone trust the two and how could avoid not thinking on seeing them to what these piece of filth did not only to a totally innocent naive girl but to themselves and their families without any guilt.

I agree, what they did was disgusting and probably unforgivable. But I maintain that a parent has a responsibility to do what's right for their child and society, and in this case that means assisting in their reform regardless of how heinous their crime.

They might find it extremely difficult or unpalatable but doing the right thing isn't easy. They brought these kids into the world, they raised them and shaped them. Like it or not, in ten years those two killers will probably be free. Their parents need to do everything they can to assist in their reform so that they are released in a state that's best for them, and best for society at large.

This isn't about how the parents now feel about their kids, it's about the responsibility they have for their kids

corpusvile

mrjoneill wrote: »

There are reports in other social media that there was an attempt to get more of their peers involved in the conspiracy to murder Ana's. There is also reports that these 2 made life hell in bullying Ana and were the main instigators. Could well be why Ana's mother Geraldine had all alarm bells going off when she found out who called for her.

Thanks for the info I wasn't aware this was going around & I was actually wondering if it was more a bullying club or a club where they talked about dark stuff as edgy teens which then went darker for both boy A & B.
I reckon the Gardaí more than likely looked into the whole "Satanist cult/homework" club aspects though & as another poster earlier stated, other aspects like the video & pic & would certainly have used it if it could have made their case even stronger. But just some odd strands to all of this all the same. I sincerely hope both get life regardless of their age. They're highly disturbed needless to say & will need lifetime supervision & state control over them for natural life when they're paroled.

tuxy

corpusvile wrote: »

. I sincerely hope both get life regardless of their age. They're highly disturbed needless to say & will need lifetime supervision & state control over them for natural life when they're paroled.

I hope so too, it's all down to the judge.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ana-kriegel-murder-life-sentence-is-not-mandatory-for-children-1.3929558

It is mandatory for trial judges to seek and consider a probation report prior to the sentencing of a child.

The reports cover areas such as the level of insight the child has into the offence they committed, whether they accept their conviction, and whether they are displaying remorse for what they have done.

If a life sentence is given to a child, they serve their detention period in Oberstown detention centre until they are past the age of 18, after which they are moved to an adult prison.

If the judge considers the three areas there: insight, accepting conviction and remorse I don't see how he can spare them a life sentence. I think the option to not give a life sentence to a child was put in place for very different scenario to this one.

pablo128

Remember, boy B has already been to a psychiatrist who diagnosed him with PTSD. Unfortunately he was also found out lying to the same psychiatrist. That won't look good for him.

Dirkziggler

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I meant the press at the time when they turn 18 and get transferred. Nothin stopping the press at that time or any prison guards leaking it.

They cannot be named at 18. It's tarriffed condition's

Dirkziggler

tuxy wrote: »

I hope so too, it's all down to the judge.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ana-kriegel-murder-life-sentence-is-not-mandatory-for-children-1.3929558


If the judge considers the three areas there: insight, accepting conviction and remorse I don't see how he can spare them a life sentence. I think the option to not give a life sentence to a child was put in place for very different scenario to this one.

Only life sentence issued was too Goodwin. He was out in 11

tuxy

Dirkziggler wrote: »

Only life sentence issued was too Goodwin. He was out in 11

And no remorse shown, which is worrying. You would think that it would be one of the conditions for parole.

Dirkziggler

tuxy wrote: »

And no remorse shown, which is worrying. You would think that it would be one of the conditions for parole.

Parole doesn't come into it with a young offender. Probation.