Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

tuxy

Dirkziggler wrote: »

Parole doesn't come into it with a young offender. Probation.

But was it the parole board that made the decision on Darren Goodwin's release date? And if so what factors do they take into consideration?

Gadgetman496

Any of you watch Psychopath with Piers Morgan on ITV?

https://www.standard.co.uk/stayingin/tvfilm/psychopath-with-piers-morgan-gripping-but-can-you-justify-interviewing-a-man-who-murdered-his-a4177531.html

juno10353

Is it certain that both boys will be sent to Oberstown. Surely they need to be separated to have any chance of rehabilitation

tuxy

juno10353 wrote: »

Is it certain that both boys will be sent to Oberstown. Surely they need to be separated to have any chance of rehabilitation

Where else would they go? I believe they have a way of separating children held in Oberstown.

mrjoneill

Dirkziggler wrote: »

Parole doesn't come into it with a young offender. Probation.

When the join the prison population if they do it will.

tuxy

mrjoneill wrote: »

When the join the prison population if they do it will.

That's what I figured. And why I find it problematic that the parole board didn't seem to take remorse of the prisoner into consideration when releasing Darren Goodwin.

Dirkziggler

mrjoneill wrote: »

When the join the prison population if they do it will.

No parole board is the commission, even when they go over the 18 mark cause they were youths when convicted probation and social workers will be the ones in control both lads will do 15 max

Infernal Racket

I see that journalist Niall O'Connor is in serious bother for naming one of the boys twice on a Cork radio show. Realistically, how is it possible to police this. I know they cant be named publically or by the media but I'm figuring that by the end of the year they will be household names. So how is it possible to stop this from happening and how many more people will find themselves before the courts?

corpusvile

Dirkziggler wrote: »

Only life sentence issued was too Goodwin. He was out in 11

The 16-year-old teen in Palmerstown who murdered seven-year-old John Horgan in 1973 also got a life sentence but only served seven years but is still on life licence. David Curran who murdered Pawel Kalite and Marius Szwajkos was also given life he was 17 at the time. He's out on day release though.

I'm surprised Goodwin & Curran weren't given anonymity though, considering Boys A/B are. The judicial system doesn't seem to be egalitarian in this regard.

Dirkziggler

corpusvile wrote: »

The 16-year-old teen in Palmerstown who murdered seven-year-old John Horgan in 1973 also got a life sentence but only served seven years but is still on life licence. David Curran who murdered Pawel Kalite and Marius Szwajkos was also given life he was 17 at the time. He's out on day release though.

I'm surprised Goodwin & Curran weren't given anonymity though, considering Boys A/B are. The judicial system doesn't seem to be egalitarian in this regard.

Anonymity is down to the fact it's a scheduled 1 offence.

iamwhoiam

corpusvile wrote: »

The 16-year-old teen in Palmerstown who murdered seven-year-old John Horgan in 1973 also got a life sentence but only served seven years but is still on life licence. David Curran who murdered Pawel Kalite and Marius Szwajkos was also given life he was 17 at the time. He's out on day release though.

I'm surprised Goodwin & Curran weren't given anonymity though, considering Boys A/B are. The judicial system doesn't seem to be egalitarian in this regard.

I would imagine the law was not in place then .,times changed and policies changed after the James Bulger tragedy

up for anything

splinter65 wrote: »

He sees the Kriegels as his enemies.
In his head, their dead daughter is causing him all this inconvenience. And really, if she hadn’t been such a slut and a weirdo, she’d still be alive today.

You seem to have intimate knowledge of Boy B's father or is this all second guessing his state of mind and how he views the child his child murdered? This is very dangerous for you to go around saying unless you have concrete proof. It's the kind of talk that grows legs in the telling and that could lead to some weirdo attacking the man because they believe what you say and may want to teach him a lesson. Disgusting conjecture.

Neyite

I don't envy the judge right now trying to determine a just sentence for both. He's constrained by the concessions that must be made due to their young age, but has to balance that with the savagery of the crime which feels like a 'lock up and throw away the key' one. Anything falling short of that - and it likely will due to them being minors - will probably result in uproar in the public.

Former Observer

I saw a documentary recently about the murder of Maddie Clifton. The perpetrator was a 14 year old boy sentenced to life imprisonment without the possibility of parol. There was no sexual element. Astonishing how sentencing differs depending on the state/country where a crime is committed.

This Kriegal case will be talked about for a very long time. Really awful. Poor girl.

ohnonotgmail

Former Observer wrote: »

I saw a documentary recently about the murder of Maddie Clifton. The perpetrator was a 14 year old boy sentenced to life imprisonment without the possibility of parol. There was no sexual element. Astonishing how sentencing differs depending on the state/country where a crime is committed.

That sentence was overturned on appeal. He is eligible for parole in 4 years time.

Cryptopagan

Gerry G wrote: »

I see that journalist Niall O'Connor is in serious bother for naming one of the boys twice on a Cork radio show. Realistically, how is it possible to police this. I know they cant be named publically or by the media but I'm figuring that by the end of the year they will be household names. So how is it possible to stop this from happening and how many more people will find themselves before the courts?

If they are never named on mainstream media, how would they become household names?

And what is this obsession with knowing their names? What would you do with that information? Maybe when they are adults and eligible for release, then people can argue there are valid reasons to know their identities, but right now we’re talking about two children being detained by the state. There is no good reason to name them.

mrjoneill

Neyite wrote: »

I don't envy the judge right now trying to determine a just sentence for both. He's constrained by the concessions that must be made due to their young age, but has to balance that with the savagery of the crime which feels like a 'lock up and throw away the key' one. Anything falling short of that - and it likely will due to them being minors - will probably result in uproar in the public.

Yes indeed the pure savagery and calculating of it, led the girl to an abandoned house away from their own village to Lucan to put the blame there. I'm sure these thought the Gardai would be racing around Lucan looking for those responsible there when Ana's body was found. No doubt about is a lot of planning & scheming went into this. It was the last pinging from a mast in Lucan of Ana's phone switched the search there other than that her body may not have been found for weeks and there may be no forensics to be got. The fact there was so much protracted scheming went into it embeds their sheer evil. And these 2 are well aware of the enormity of their crime by their systematic denials and not one semblance of accepting the wrongdoing or empathy for Ana's family. I regard all the hugging and landholding in court as just a rouse at playacting innocence. While they were only 13 when the did the deed the nature of what they did defines them.

mrjoneill

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

That sentence was overturned on appeal. He is eligible for parole in 4 years time.

Paul Henry Gingerich: Killer at 12, Now Free at 19

Read Newsmax: Killer Kid Paul Henry Gingerich, Locked Up at 12, Now Free at 19 | Newsmax.com
L]

https://www.newsmax.com/thewire/paul-henry-gingerich-killer-kid-free/2017/08/02/id/805258/

ohnonotgmail

mrjoneill wrote: »

Paul Henry Gingerich: Killer at 12, Now Free at 19

Read Newsmax: Killer Kid Paul Henry Gingerich, Locked Up at 12, Now Free at 19 | Newsmax.com
L]

https://www.newsmax.com/thewire/paul-henry-gingerich-killer-kid-free/2017/08/02/id/805258/

what is the relevance? he is nothing to do with the post i was replying to.

Suckit

That aside, I think it came out that Lundy's step-father had been abusing him, especially when he was drunk. So the case was reviewed with those circumstances in mind.
It's not similar to two psychopathic scumbags luring an innocent girl out of her house, and into an abandoned house to beat her to death.

I wonder do any other kids know anything more that they may have been afraid to say. Thinking about it, somebody must have heard something, maybe one of the others in the 'homework' club. Hopefully they decide to tell somebody if they do. It could make a huge difference if Boy B decides to appeal.

mrjoneill

Suckit wrote: »

That aside, I think it came out that Gingerich's step-father had been abusing him, especially when he was drunk. So the case was reviewed with those circumstances in mind.
It's not similar to two psychopathic scumbags luring an innocent girl out of her house, and into an abandoned house to beat her to death.

I wonder do any other kids know anything more that they may have been afraid to say. Thinking about it, somebody must have heard something, maybe one of the others in the 'homework' club. Hopefully they decide to tell somebody if they do. It could make a huge difference if Boy B decides to appeal.

I was focusing to sentencing? I have not seen any reports Gingerich's step-father had been abusing him either. And they are totally different circumstances as you state to Ana's mrder.



There are rumors that other kids were propositioned to partake but the Gardai failed to get any evidence for it. I could well see why parents would not want their kid drawn through the courts over an issue that they don't want anything to do with it.

Suckit

mrjoneill wrote: »

I was focusing to sentencing? I have not seen any reports Gingerich's step-father had been abusing him either. And they are totally different circumstances as you state to Ana's mrder.

I know, but even the sentencing would be different here anyway.
I meant Lundy's stepfather.
He was abusive when drunk on (usually) whiskey.

mrjoneill

Suckit wrote: »

I know, but even the sentencing would be different here anyway.
I meant Lundy's stepfather.
He was abusive when drunk on (usually) whiskey.

The big thing in these is usually sex abuse but that was not here, but abusive is open to many interpretations. Looking at the case back then it came across to me they didn't like him.

iamwhoiam

I am watching a documentary about the murder of 11 year old Rhys Jones in Liverpool . It is from the prospective of his parents and the sheer pain and trauma they suffered . My heart goes out to them even now all these years later the pain is palpable . It brings it home how Anas parents and family must be suffering and how they will suffer
But it always brings home how they will suffer if ever these two boys are freed
Surely that should be the most important thing to remember . The familys pain and that they should matter

splinter65

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am watching a documentary about the murder of 11 year old Rhys Jones in Liverpool . It is from the prospective of his parents and the sheer pain and trauma they suffered . My heart goes out to them even now all these years later the pain is palpable . It brings it home how Anas parents and family must be suffering and how they will suffer
But it always brings home how they will suffer if ever these two boys are freed
Surely that should be the most important thing to remember . The familys pain and that they should matter

The shooters mother ended up doing time too. A woman with no redeeming features. The dregs of humanity.

8-10

splinter65 wrote: »

The shooters mother ended up doing time too. A woman with no redeeming features. The dregs of humanity.

The shooter also recently stabbed Jimmy Mizen's killer in prison, nearly killed him. Absolute cretin.

Liverpool is getting much better as a city but it still has this element in it that emboldens young kids to do really bad things

Suckit

Absolutely 100% hypothetical and a bit of a nonsense post, but....

I saw that a young girl went missing in Lucan on Wednesday night. She was last seen getting into a car (I hope she is okay).
It got me thinking bcause it is close to the area I guess.
What would happen if one of the boys sisters or brothers went missing in the same manner?
Surely they would have to tell the public who they were, as it may be related to the boys actions.
So would they have to name the person missing and the fact that they were related to one of the boys, or would they try and keep anonymity?

Like I said, a bit of a nonsense post, and very unlikely to happen, I just got thinking about it.

Kidchameleon

They wouldn't have to name anyone because judging by some of the comments about A & B's familys, she would deserve to be missing for daring to be related to one of them "animals".

LiamoSail

Kidchameleon wrote: »

They wouldn't have to name anyone because judging by some of the comments about A & B's familys, she would deserve to be missing for daring to be related to one of them "animals".

That's bollox. You're trying to trivialise legitimate criticism of the parents by drawing innocent relatives into it. Innocent relatives don't deserve that. Nobody is tarnishing them with the same brush.

At some point you're going to have to accept the fact that people are horrified, with good reason, at the parents facilitating attempts by their kids to get away with murder.

Suckit

LiamoSail wrote: »

That's bollox. You're trying to trivialise legitimate criticism of the parents by drawing innocent relatives into it. Innocent relatives don't deserve that. Nobody is tarnishing them with the same brush.

At some point you're going to have to accept the fact that people are horrified, with good reason, at the parents facilitating attempts by their kids to get away with murder.