Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Franz Von Peppercorn II

tuxy wrote: »

Yes it is what I believe, I wouldn't have said it otherwise.

Well let me reiterate- if we remove mandatory sentencing the judges will give as little as they can get away with. Half of all manslaughter cases result in < 5 years.

tuxy

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Well let me reiterate- if we remove mandatory sentencing the judges will give as little as they can get away with. Half of all manslaughter cases result in < 5 years.

But it's always up to the parole board not the judge when it comes to life sentences I never said this should change. A judge can't sentence someone to manslaughter and spare someone a life sentence when there is no evidence for it.
The parole board taking a guilty plea into consideration would not change the mandatory life sentence for murder.

Ash.J.Williams

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

I am in no position to tell them what they should do. Only someone who had been in their position can make a call on it.

But to use words like unconditional and doing their job as parents is a bit of a stretch. There is no obligation on a parent to stand by your children. If they take an innocent 16 year old girl to an abandoned house, beat the living out of her, sexually assault her and leave here there like she was worth nothing.

Cynthia Owen came out and publicly denounced what her son did and said she wasn't standing by him. Boy A and Boy B couldn't even plead guilty and one father verbally abused the court.

Was cynthia part of his life?

gozunda

LiamoSail wrote: »

The incentive is that if you're guilty it's the right thing to do. It's saving the victims family from the ordeal of a trial, it's saving the victims memory from having every detail of their life combed over and widely reported on. It's the first step in reforming.

I appreciate that legal advice is often different from what is the right thing to do, but in such a horrific case like this the parents, knowing their kids were guilty, should have made them confess everything and plead guilty. Those kids will never reform if they can't be honest now.

Never mind your personal incentives, this is about doing what's right for the victim and her family.

There are incentives though. In the case of boy A & B the judge would have included admission of guilt as an possible mitigation for sentancing. As it is they were both found guilty and yet appear to be holding on to the lies both told to Gardai and given as evidence during the court case. This was detailed in one of the articles linked previously. I'll see if I can find it ...

tayto lover

Does anyone know when the sentencing date is as I can’t seem to find it?
Must be very soon.

tuxy

tayto lover wrote: »

Does anyone know when the sentencing date is as I can’t seem to find it?
Must be very soon.

July 15th

splinter65

Kidchameleon wrote: »

There is no evidence to suggest that this has not happened in the case of A & B's parents.

When boy bs father jumped up in court and shouted that he was an “innocent boy” I’m pretty certain that that is evidence that he’s never told him that he disapproves of him.

iamwhoiam

splinter65 wrote: »

When boy bs father jumped up in court and shouted that he was an “innocent boy” I’m pretty certain that that is evidence that he’s never told him that he disapproves of him.

No , and his declaration in court that his son was not capable of murder .


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/boy-b-not-capable-of-killing-ana-kri%25C3%25A9gel-father-tells-court-1.3914460%3fmode=amp

On Tuesday morning, the court heard from one of the final witnesses in the case, the father of Boy B. He told the trial his son was “not capable” of killing the 14-year-old girl.

Kidchameleon

splinter65 wrote: »

When boy bs father jumped up in court and shouted that he was an “innocent boy” I’m pretty certain that that is evidence that he’s never told him that he disapproves of him.

The only thing that is evidence of is that the father thinks his son is innocent of murder.

gozunda

The journal.ie did a podcast of the case. In it they talk about boy A's phone and accessing
violent porn etc and the fact that he kept a second phone for this - one that was specially used for that purpose. Made me think again on that the idea that boy B had a similar arrangement tbh ...

https://www.thejournal.ie/the-explainer-podcast-ana-kriegel-trial-4690679-Jun2019/

Hannibal_Smith

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Well, tbf it is an insulting term and not a constructive thing to say, so I’ll retract that.

But I maintain that there is nothing I know of that’s being reported that places any blame or wrongdoing on either boy’s parents, apart from somebody got emotional and shouted some things out in court, which obviously people shouldn’t do but is hardly worthy of some of the condemnation I’ve seen.

Indeed it seems like the parents were totally cooperative with the investigation. Sure Boy B’s mother sat there during Garda interviews even when it must have been obvious the boy was talking himself into a hole.

Yet Ana's parents still don't know the truth of what happened. Only what the police managed to piece together. The Gardai say Boy B changed his story many times and only when confronted with what they discovered.

iamwhoiam

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/parents-of-anastasia-kriegel-thank-community-for-support-933781.html

Anas lovely parents have planted a tree in her memory .

splinter65

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The only thing that is evidence of is that the father thinks his son is innocent of murder.

No it’s evidence that :
1. despite all boy bs proven and admitted lie after lie after lie in a most grave and horrific set of circumstances
and
2. even after he admitted that he watched a girl who subsequently died being attacked brutally but didn’t raise the alarm when he could have saved her life.
3. He displayed at the very least criminal cowardice and an inability to tell the truth.
Boy b continues to have the full approval of his father.

SirChenjin

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/parents-of-anastasia-kriegel-thank-community-for-support-933781.html

Anas lovely parents have planted a tree in her memory .

Yes, I saw that.

Cannot even begin to imagine their anguish at the loss of their beautiful and dearly loved child.

RIP Ana.

abff

splinter65 wrote: »

No it’s evidence that :
1. despite all boy bs proven and admitted lie after lie after lie in a most grave and horrific set of circumstances
and
2. even after he admitted that he watched a girl who subsequently died being attacked brutally but didn’t raise the alarm when he could have saved her life.
3. He displayed at the very least criminal cowardice and an inability to tell the truth.
Boy b continues to have the full approval of his father.

Yes, up to a point. But it's also possible that the father no longer believed in or approved of his son, but was trying desperately to save him from the fate that he so richly deserved. Just saying.....

Kidchameleon

splinter65 wrote: »

No it’s evidence that :
1. despite all boy bs proven and admitted lie after lie after lie in a most grave and horrific set of circumstances
and
2. even after he admitted that he watched a girl who subsequently died being attacked brutally but didn’t raise the alarm when he could have saved her life.
3. He displayed at the very least criminal cowardice and an inability to tell the truth.
Boy b continues to have the full approval of his father.

So we are agreed then

Spanish Eyes

While we all discuss the case and at times it can get heated, Ana's parents are just so dignified in their grief.

The reports from today's tree planting ceremony are harrowing, but they held it together. They are to be commended.

I would be in a heap.

Road-Hog

LiamoSail wrote: »

The incentive is that if you're guilty it's the right thing to do. It's saving the victims family from the ordeal of a trial, it's saving the victims memory from having every detail of their life combed over and widely reported on. It's the first step in reforming.

I appreciate that legal advice is often different from what is the right thing to do, but in such a horrific case like this the parents, knowing their kids were guilty, should have made them confess everything and plead guilty. Those kids will never reform if they can't be honest now.

Never mind your personal incentives, this is about doing what's right for the victim and her family.

When you read the stuff about ‘Animal B’ witnessing Animal A Performing a king foo kick on Ana and then proceeding to remove her clothes coupled with the evidence of sexual assault it’s just inconceivable that animal A could please not guilty......what was he trying to do play some sort of game......? How could A possibly think he could get away with such an act. Was he going to say he acted in self defence or something....?

As a matter of interest.....:Could this pair get the death Penalty for such a crime in the USA...?

corpusvile

The USA doesn't have the death penalty for anyone under 18 since 2005 although they used to. SCOTUS also ruled life without parole for minors who “did not kill or intend to kill” as unconstitutional in recent years, so both these two would probably be eligible for such a sentence over there.
Thanks to the posters for earlier clarification re the Child act & anonymity btw, appreciated

splinter65

Kidchameleon wrote: »

So we are agreed then

No we’re not agreed. About anything.

Nobelium

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/parents-of-anastasia-kriegel-thank-community-for-support-933781.html

Anas lovely parents have planted a tree in her memory .

Won't be long now before some feral scroates vandalise it, and then some liberals come on defending them as just "misunderstood."

tuxy

Road-Hog wrote: »

what was he trying to do play some sort of game......? How could A possibly think he could get away with such an act. Was he going to say he acted in self defence or something....?

It's been covered countless times in this thread. Read back and you will understand the type of legal advice he probably got, then his plea will make perfect sense. Personally I think there should be increased consequences to being found guilty of murder after a not guilty plea, as it stands that's not the case.

Nobelium

Nobelium wrote: »

Won't be long now before some feral scroates vandalise it, and then some liberals come on defending them as just "misunderstood."

Are you actually making up imaginary situations now just so you can give out about liberals? :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Nobelium

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you actually making up imaginary situations now just so you can give out about liberals? :pac::pac::pac::pac:

like the vile murder of Ana and the excuses made defending boy a + b ?

Also not sure why you think this situation is funny.

tuxy

Nobelium wrote: »

like the vile murder of Ana and the excuses made defending boy a + b ?

Also not sure why you think this situation is funny.

I've yet to hear anyone make excuses for the two boys found guilty. Care to fill me on on what "liberals" have been saying in the defence of the guilty?

Kidchameleon

Nobelium wrote: »

Won't be long now before some feral scroates vandalise it, and then some liberals come on defending them as just "misunderstood."

Ill send you 100 euro if that happens. PM me your PayPal details if it does (it wont btw)

dudara

Nobelium wrote: »

Won't be long now before some feral scroates vandalise it, and then some liberals come on defending them as just "misunderstood."

Can we please lay off language like “feral scrotes”? It seems to be the latest catchphrase that adds nothing to a conversation. And I’m not sure how bringing “liberals” into the conversation works either.

dudara

Omackeral

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Ill send you 100 euro if that happens. PM me your PayPal details if it does (it wont btw)

Why don't you save your 100 Euro and donate to the Russian Irish Adoption Group, which would be close to the Kriegel's heart I'm sure.

https://riag.ie/

Nobelium

<SNIP>

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dudara

Nobelium

Nobelium wrote: »

like the vile murder of Ana and the excuses made defending boy a + b ?

Also not sure why you think this situation is funny.

Have some respect for the dead and her family.

The same type of ****e was attempted in the thread regarding her death first being reported and as usual ye couldn't give a flying **** about what actually happened.