Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Suckit

Scotty # wrote: »

I'm not a judge but as I understand it they were tried as adults and thus will be sentenced as adults. If that's the case then the mandatory sentence is life in prison and as they both pleaded not guilty, I don't think they will be eligible for probation.

EDIT: That does not mean they will spend the rest of their lives in prison! But AFAIK they will receive full life sentences (hopefully anyway!)

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0618/1056052-ana-kriegel-trial-what-happens-next/

Feisar

optogirl wrote: »

Yes. Let's show these boys that bullying and murder are wrong by.... oh wait...

It's not about showing right from wrong, it's a case of sorry, we don't want you in our society, put him on an island with a bottle of water and a gun with one bullet so.

Riskymove

blackwhite wrote: »

Once someone is under 18 they are a child before the courts - "trying them as an adult" doesn't exist in Irish. It's shoddy journalism reporting it as such - that's all.

yes, I think it is more accurate to say that they were children tried in the main "adult" court rather than tried as an adult

they are still children in the eyes of the court

kateee47298

mariaalice wrote: »

Why is there such resistance to the ideas the male role models in the boys life, in this case, their their father's attitudes, thoughts, and beliefs about women and female sexuality would influence the boys?. Even if the fathers never tallked directly to the boy about woman its there in everything how come their phone was not being monitored that says volumes about the parents.

Yeah I agree, environment has so much influence, even what happens in school, what we watch on tv and what we see on the internet, but they don't seem to have a family upbringing that viewed females as equals unfortunately

optogirl

Hal3000 wrote: »

I think we need mandatory anger management lessons in schools. So many aggressive little toerags about these days.

Try that and you'll see many of the same people here screaming about the atrocious behaviour of these boys deriding such a notion as SJW nanny state PC Brigade nonsense.

Andrew00

They'll be out in a few years for Good behavior or whatever other reasons they have in Ireland

.......

How does that make you any different to them?

Neyite

Hal3000 wrote: »

I think we need mandatory anger management lessons in schools. So many aggressive little toerags about these days.

What were they angry at?


And why did that anger result in the death of Ana?

Gatling

"Lawyers for Boy B wanted to introduce evidence from a clinical psychologist that the boy was suffering from post traumatic stress disorder after witnessing the assault on Ana Kriégel, and that there was an explanation for his lies."

"It also emerged that the boy gave the psychologist further details of the attack on Ana that he had not disclosed to gardaí."

After hearing the psychologist's evidence, in the absence of the jury, Mr Justice Paul McDermott ruled it was not admissible.

He said it was for the jury to decide why the boy lied.


https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0618/1056060-ana-kriegel-trial-boy-b/

tayto lover

Boggles wrote: »

But far less evidence against him, so I can see why legally he would have taken his chances, which was my point.

As for "evil" top trumps.

I imagine the lad that brutally murdered and sexually assaulted her would be slightly more evil TBH.

I see your point but Boy B is some piece of sh1t. Changed his story 9 times and tried to continually out-smart the detectives by only admitting to what they knew. Brazened it out to the last. Wouldn’t surprise me if he planned it all and planted the seeds in the mind of the other evil bas**** who was more barbaric but not as clever.

ED E

....... wrote: »

How does that make you any different to them?

Degrees of separation. Outsourcing problems works wonders.

Feisar

....... wrote: »

How does that make you any different to them?

The poster didn't murder an innocent child.

Edit - It's a case of putting down a rabid dog/cutting out the cancer.

iamwhoiam

tayto lover wrote: »

I see your point but Boy B is some piece of sh1t. Changed his story 9 times and tried to continually out-smart the detectives by only admitting to what they knew. Brazened it out to the last. Wouldn’t surprise me if he planned it all and planted the seeds in the mind of the other evil bas**** who was more barbaric but not as clever.

Reading the reports now I am beginning to wonder if B was the mastermind . He is clever and astute and a proficient liar

Hermy

....... wrote: »

How does that make you any different to them?

Indeed.

Why are so many convinced that the solution to violent crime is more violent crime?

kravmaga

Deleted User wrote: »

Will they be named?

When they reach 18yrs old they can then both be named.

Its wrong though, they should be named and shamed, two right evil scum of the earth. Shame there is no death penalty.

Hope they get there Karma, two middle class boys in a detention centre like Oberstown , then Mountjoy or the likes when they reach 18 .

jmayo

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The 2 boys deserve the firm hand of justice but they have lost there childhood ,teen years and beginning of there adult lives today and rightly so, I feel sympathy for there parents they have to live with the fact the children they raised have done this and there lives have changed forever at 13 years of age,

They might have lost a few years, Ana lost everything for ever more.
So fook them.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

...
The dad's outburst was not done int he right manner but as someone said previously god knows where his head was at when he done it ,

I don't think we can judge the parents without knowing anything about them ,

Bullshyte, you don't lick that reaction off the trees, calling Gardai and court those names.
To me it just shows daddy's real view of the Gardai and the rule of law.

Lots of parents have to see their kids go to jail for crimes, but they don't have petulent outbursts like that.

I reckon the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

There is a cohort of parents who will fight and scream when their kids are acussed of anything.
Their little angel can be the biggest scrote on two feet, but god help anyone that dares challenges their parents.
And because the parents refuse to do anything the kids grow up to be complete scrotes.

chicorytip wrote: »

This is a simplistic point of view. People react in different ways. I believe both these boys, in particular A, have severe psychiatric problems which may or may not be attributable to their background and upbringing. I don't think it's possible to describe a twelve or thirteen year old child as intrinsically evil.

Why is it so hard to believe some people are just plain bad and couldn't give a shyte about anyone else ?

Mahony0509 wrote: »

I know we criticize the Garda lot but fair ****ing play to the officers who investigated this. Outstanding job and they served Ana’s family excellently.

I will gladly admit the same.
Great job by AGS in this case.

El_Bee

Boggles wrote: »

But far less evidence against him, so I can see why legally he would have taken his chances, which was my point.

As for "evil" top trumps.

I imagine the lad that brutally murdered and sexually assaulted her would be slightly more evil TBH.

I dunno, what's more evil, a rabid dog or the person who leads an innocent person to be mauled by one?

Gatling

kravmaga wrote: »

Hope they get there Karma, two middle class boys in a detention centre like Oberstown , then Mountjoy or the likes when they reach 18 .

It's likely they could he kept in oberstown till there 21 and then released

Wombatman

Gatling wrote: »

"Lawyers for Boy B wanted to introduce evidence from a clinical psychologist that the boy was suffering from post traumatic stress disorder after witnessing the assault on Ana Kriégel, and that there was an explanation for his lies."

"It also emerged that the boy gave the psychologist further details of the attack on Ana that he had not disclosed to gardaí."

After hearing the psychologist's evidence, in the absence of the jury, Mr Justice Paul McDermott ruled it was not admissible.

He said it was for the jury to decide why the boy lied.


https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0618/1056060-ana-kriegel-trial-boy-b/

Mr Justice McDermott warned the jurors that to rely on these lies, the prosecution had to establish that the motivation for telling them was the realisation of guilt. He said to convict Boy B, the jury had to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that he knew of the other boy's intention to kill and that he participated in the murder.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0618/1056046-boy-b-ana-kriegal-trial/

How do a jury decide why the boy lied?

Was it proven beyond reasonable doubt that he knew of the other boy's intention to kill? I know he told him, but Boy B responded with total disbelief?

iamwhoiam

Wombatman wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0618/1056046-boy-b-ana-kriegal-trial/

How do a jury decide why the boy lied?

Was it proven beyond reasonable doubt that he knew of the other boy's intention to kill? I know he told him, but Boy B responded with total disbelief?

Or so he said . I for one struggle to believe a single word B uttered

This is it

Wombatman wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0618/1056046-boy-b-ana-kriegal-trial/

How do a jury decide why the boy lied?

Was it proven beyond reasonable doubt that he knew of the other boy's intention to kill? I know he told him, but Boy B responded with total disbelief?

Was it proven? The jury certainly believed so and that's what matters.

Poor girl, and I can't begin to imagine what her family are going through.

Blazer

optogirl wrote: »

In fairness, if a 13 year old is looking at pictures of 13 year olds that's considered child porn. Most teenagers have porn on their phone so it's probably not much in the way of evidence of anything.

13 year old kids don't look at child porn, it's adult porn they watch.
Both of these ****s are sick in the head and the longer they stay locked up the better.
Brings back menories of the Jamie Bulger case except that was far worse.

Suckit

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Reading the reports now I am beginning to wonder if B was the mastermind . He is clever and astute and a proficient liar

I am convinced Boy B had a lot more to do with it than he would have liked everyone to believe. Out of bits that I have read etc. He seemed to fall down when he found out he wasn't as intelligent as the adults he encountered during the investigation.

I would be willing to bet he is a lot more intelligent than Boy A.

Poor Ana was manipulated too. I have no doubt she asked a few questions at the door when he came knocking, I doubt she believed him immediately, he likely convinced her, and as it was something she really wanted to believe it wouldn't have taken an awful lot of convincing. He knew exactly what he was doing all along.

Shemale

Edit: I had wrong info

kravmaga

Hal3000 wrote: »

I think we need mandatory anger management lessons in schools. So many aggressive little toerags about these days.

Its the lack of parenting not the schools job to teach right from wrong, this comes from within the family home/ values / moral compass etc

Shemale

humberklog wrote: »

Yeah you are right but there was a really odd story that came out from boy B"s father's testimony.

The gardai came to the door of boy B the day after Ana's disappearance. The father had returned from work at 5 and the Gardai knocked at the door at 8. The mother and boy B talked to the gardai on the doorstep. The father passed them in the hall,at 9 noted his son and wife were still talking to the gards about Ana. He didn't stop to listen and went straight up to bed and went to sleep.
In the morning he had a brief conversation about it with his wife.

Now that is a sign of some pretty sh1tty parenting skills.

Or he was cleaning something up.

alroley

Shemale wrote: »

Would you inform yourself before commenting, Anas blood was found on his runners indicating he was close when this happened and her blood was found in items in his back pack.

Apart from that and his constantly changing story he seems pretty innocent, ffs!

Was that evidence not on Boy A though?

Bobblehats

Hermy wrote: »

Indeed.

Why are so many convinced that the solution to violent crime is more violent crime?

What’s a discreet entry wound to being bludgeoned to death?

Would save us the embarrassment of a public lynching, gone viral. Even if they deserve

This is it

Shemale wrote: »

Would you inform yourself before commenting, Anas blood was found on his runners indicating he was close when this happened and her blood was found in items in his back pack.

Apart from that and his constantly changing story he seems pretty innocent, ffs!

That was Boy A, as far as I'm aware there was no physical evidence placing Boy B at the scene, it was his own statements that put him there, closer each time he was caught out.

Penn

Shemale wrote: »

Would you inform yourself before commenting, Anas blood was found on his runners indicating he was close when this happened and her blood was found in items in his back pack.

Apart from that and his constantly changing story he seems pretty innocent, ffs!

That was Boy A wasn't it? From what I've read there was no forensic evidence that puts Boy B at the scene. His conviction was more largely based on his constant lies and changing his story, not physical/forensic evidence.