Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

mrjoneill

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I don’t think there is any evidence that says they led her to Laraghchon to lay the blame on Lucan . The house was abandoned and empty and I imagine that was the reason for bringing her to that point .I doubt they were even that cute , well Boy A sure wasn’t as he brought his murder pack home with him

Three km is a very long distance to lead someone to their death and this was through the fields where their sighting would be a minimum, I do believe this was to throw Gardai of the Leixlip scent.

Boy A was wise enough to state to the Garda who took his DNA that Ana's hand had crossed over the front of his body. I presume this was to cover the finding of forensic fibers from Ana on his clothing. His mother handed over his boots & washed clothes. But it was not visible to the naked eye blood spatter on his boots. I presume it was the same for the other stuff the “murder kit” of knee pads & shinguards', mask and bag and I presume he believed the Gardai would not know he had uses these so there would be no need to destroy them. They had done the perfect crime. He had also worn gloves so I presume he was aware of not leaving prints. So often in these juvenile murders the planning goes into doing the actual act while ignoring the aftermath or giving it very little attention. If Boy A had destroyed his “murder kit” washed his boots, removed Ana's top from the scene which his DNA was found on, removed the tape around her throat there was no forensics to tie him to the murder. More than likely the top got contaminated with his semen in wiping up a sex act he did on Ana's body. He probably discarded it at the scene believing it would not be used in forensics as it would be treated like other rubbish in the room and not tied into the crime scene. He would have sung dumb under questioning and Gardai would not be able to be so definite with the questioning of Boy B. Boy A initial reaction when confronted with the forensic evidence was disbelief in that, “Are you joking me? Are you actually being serious?” . Boy B only cooperated to the minimum when found out and this was after repeated interviews. Boy B stated when asked what was in the back-pack he carried, it was a bottle of water, yet we have him stating he drank water at the Park Rangers tap, so he could very well have clothing, gloves and footwear which he destroyed. I do believe only for the forensic evidence Ana's brutal murder would not be solved with convictions. Although the strong suspicion would remain of these two involvement, but then again their age would always be in their favor for its so difficult to comprehend so evil so young.

SirChenjin

I hope that Ana's family are receiving all appropriate support in their terrible loss.

Unfortunately a lot of focus seems to be on the perpetrators of this horrendous crime.

Nothing will ever comfort her family who loved her so deeply.

I hope that the sentence handed down will reflect the horrific crime committed, that is all.

The Black Oil

I finally read Conor Gallagher's long piece in the Irish Times recently. It gave the background, details from the court, the search, discovery of her body and snippets from the Garda interviews.

Whilst it was very sad, it painted a good picture of Ana and I hope that lives on in most people's imagination, more than what the two scumbags did.

iamwhoiam

mrjoneill wrote: »

Three km is a very long distance to lead someone to their death and this was through the fields where their sighting would be a minimum, I do believe this was to throw Gardai of the Leixlip scent.


.

Throwing the Gardai off the scent of Leixlip was hardly going to be that easy
Ana was from Leixlip , Boy B was from Leixlip and they entered the park in Leixlip
I believe both boys thought they were far cleverer than they actually were .I think they used the house as it is a dark abandoned house and they led her there to kill her .It was a long way but it is unique in being the easiest to access from Leixlip through Catherines park . They thought they would lead Gardai off the scent but they simply were not bright enough to fool anyone .

OwlsZat

SirChenjin wrote: »

Nothing will ever comfort her family who loved her so deeply.

While I get your trying to empathise with the suffering the victims family have gone though. Your point is simply untrue and unhelpful. It's often said that a tragedy is as bad for those left behind. They will have to retain their sanity in face of tremendous grief and deal with everyone else expressing their grief to them. As part of this process they will take comfort from anything they can. In this case that.

- Ana did nothing wrong
- There is huge public support and remembrance for Ana
- The Garda did an excellent job and the killers have been caught and will be convicted
- Ana's death may drive legislative change to prevent bullying of future students
- If the family are religious hundreds upon thousands of prayers have been said for Ana

All these points and others become hugely important for a grieving family.

Vicarious Function

OwlsZat wrote: »

While I get your trying to empathise with the suffering the victims family have gone though. Your point is simply untrue and unhelpful. It's often said that a tragedy is as bad for those left behind. They will have to retain their sanity in face of tremendous grief and deal with everyone else expressing their grief to them. As part of this process they will take comfort from anything they can. In this case that.

- Ana did nothing wrong
- There is huge public support and remembrance for Ana
- The Garda did an excellent job and the killers have been caught and will be convicted
- Ana's death may drive legislative change to prevent bullying of future students
- If the family are religious hundreds upon thousands of prayers have been said for Ana

All these points and others become hugely important for a grieving family.

Add to that, legislation controlling access to porn sites for young people under a certain age. It's an awful reflection on this country that young boys (especially) rely on access to Porn and the Dark Web for their sex education.

evolving_doors

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Add to that, legislation controlling access to porn sites for young people under a certain age. It's an awful reflection on this country that young boys (especially) rely on access to Porn and the Dark Web for their sex education.

That ain't gonna happen.

tuxy

Vicarious Function wrote: »

rely on access to Porn and the Dark Web for their sex education.

You know that typing "dark web" into a clear web search engine doesn't give you access to it?
Anyone can host a tor node so how would you go about restricting access?

Lefty Bicek

Just wanted to bump this, as something practical to maybe consider doing...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110495759&postcount=3635

Again, I want to stress that I am in no way associated.

Vicarious Function

tuxy wrote: »

You know that typing "dark web" into a clear web search engine doesn't give you access to it?
Anyone can host a tor node so how would you go about restricting access?

I'm no expert on how it's done, but IMO, something must be done using available expertise to control access by very young children to dangerous websites.

gctest50

Vicarious Function wrote: »

I'm no expert on how it's done, but IMO, something must be done using available expertise to control access by very young children to dangerous websites.

1: Stop using the internet as a babysitting service

Simples


2 : It's disgraceful using a thread about two Irish scumbags murdering a girl to push your agenda


.

tuxy

Vicarious Function wrote: »

I'm no expert on how it's done, but IMO, something must be done using available expertise to control access by very young children to dangerous websites.

If China with it's vast resources and technology can't restrict internet access for its citizens then Ireland has no chance. A different approach will have to be attempted involving responsibility from parents.

Vicarious Function

gctest50 wrote: »

Stop using the internet as a babysitting service

Simples

I wouldn't say Simples! If it were that simple, there would not be the problem. You see it everywhere, on buses, in resturants etc, toddlers under two are handed smartphones to look at stuff by their parents. Even today I had lunch in a restaurant. There were three at the table next to me - a couple and a child undr six (I'd say). The couple were deep in conversation for the whole of the meal, the child was concentrating on a phone for the whole time. I never saw either of the adults address the child during that whole time, they were just into each other and the child was left to her own devices re the phone. She never made any effort to attract the adults' attention.

If this is the way it is with toddlers and under sixes now, what can we expwct by the time they reach age thirteen?

SirChenjin

The Black Oil wrote: »

I finally read Conor Gallagher's long piece in the Irish Times recently. It gave the background, details from the court, the search, discovery of her body and snippets from the Garda interviews.

Whilst it was very sad, it painted a good picture of Ana and I hope that lives on in most people's imagination, more than what the two scumbags did.

It's a very good article and yes, I have said a few times on the thread it's so important that Ana is remembered - even by those of us who did not know her - as the beautiful and deeply loved person that she was.

RTE did show some lovely clips on the news and on a subsequent programme that gave us, as outsiders, an insight into her (sadly all too short) life.

RIP Ana.

Dyr

Vicarious Function wrote: »

I wouldn't say Simples! If it were that simple, there would not be the problem. You see it everywhere, on buses, in resturants etc, toddlers under two are handed smartphones to look at stuff by their parents. Even today I had lunch in a restaurant. There were three at the table next to me - a couple and a child undr six (I'd say). The couple were deep in conversation for the whole of the meal, the child was concentrating on a phone for the whole time. I never saw either of the adults address the child during that whole time, they were just into each other and the child was left to her own devices re the phone. She never made any effort to attract the adults' attention.

If this is the way it is with toddlers and under sixes now, what can we expwct by the time they reach age thirteen?

Was this six year old watching porn or accessing...*gasp*...the dark web?

Vicarious Function

Bambi wrote: »

Was this six year old watching porn or accessing...*gasp*...the dark web?

You obviously don't grasp my point. Good night!

n97 mini

mrjoneill wrote: »

She was led from leixlip village into Lucan village to lay the blame in Lucan.

What does this mean? They did it to make Lucan look bad, or to make it look like people from Lucan were responsible?

nuyil simp

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Just wanted to bump this, as something practical to maybe consider doing...
Again, I want to stress that I am in no way associated.

Mr and Mrs Kriegel asked mourners that donations be made to the Russian Irish Adoption Group (RIAG).
...
The RIAG has also set up a network for Russian Irish teenagers. It’s called ANA (Ana’s Network of Adolescents)

.

Hal3000

tuxy wrote: »

If China with it's vast resources and technology can't restrict internet access for its citizens then Ireland has no chance. A different approach will have to be attempted involving responsibility from parents.

China can't restrict access, seriously? Facebook, YouTube and Google all blocked. Most VPNs are now almost gone or severely disrupted and oh wait, Whatsapp now barely works in the mainland. The Great Firewall is working so you may want to rethink that claim.

Suckit

Hal3000 wrote: »

China can't restrict access? Facebook, YouTube and Google all blocked. Most VPNs are now almost gone or severely disrupted and oh wait, Whatsapp now barely works in the mainland. The Great Firewall is working so you may want to rethink that claim.

Even if it wasn't, we're talking about children.
Partially working and parents watching should be more than enough.

You don't let a child wander out of site in a shopping mall or a fairground etc..
Internet should be treated the same. If they don't like it take the device from them.
You can even get children specific OS's that monitor and block everything along with something like opendns.

Kidchameleon

Why do people keep refering to her "beauty"? She is a child, its frankly creepy that strangers here keep mentioning her looks.

Neyite

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Why do people keep refering to her "beauty"? She is a child, its frankly creepy that strangers here keep mentioning her looks.

Why do you think that acknowledging the beauty of a child is something sexually deviant?

zanador

With all the talk of boys and porn etc I thought I'd go to an expert and ask their opinion - ie my 14 year old son.

He said 'ah, ma, we know it's not real, it's just for **** and I bet we don't watch half as much as you think' he went onto say that there are boys who watch loads and get obsessed but that's very rare. And also what about girls watching it.

I said should it be banned and he said no and that 'the torture vids some people send round are worse'. Executions and torture and the like. And I asked should they be banned and he said maybe.

My opinion as a parent is this: No point banning anything, they'll do it anyway or find a way and if it's forced underground then we REALLY won't have an idea what they are doing. I have an open house as in all this stuff is talked about regularly and no judgements cast. As with drugs and all other life things really I think all we can do is give them guidance, hopefully at home and definitely at school, and then just hope.

I have a much bigger problem with all the adults who let Ana down. For example as a teacher and youth worker if i saw kids getting up and leaving every time another child came over then I wouldn't rest until it was sorted. Same with the school. I'd have parents in and restorative work done and would keep doing so until the problem stopped however long that took. I am furiousure at the school. Those two boys are aberrations imo, part of the diversity of our species (a terrible part) but if you are a good person who does nothing when a young girl is being destroyed by her peers then you are not a good person you are part of the problem.

RIP Ana

splinter65

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Why do people keep refering to her "beauty"? She is a child, its frankly creepy that strangers here keep mentioning her looks.

Children are referred to as beautiful all the time, and their beauty is mentioned a lot.
“Beautiful baby”
“Beautiful child”
“Beautiful boy”
You want to attach sexual connotations to that ? Very telling.

Vicarious Function

Everyone, male or female, that I've talked with have commented on Ana's beauty. Seems a normal thng to do - nothng sexual implied.

zanador

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Everyone, male or female, that I've talked with have commented on Ana's beauty. Seems a normal thng to do - nothng sexual implied.

Youth is beautiful. Actually without being too hippy like life is beautiful that's why it's so sad and she was such a beauty because she was full of it.

Vicarious Function

Her smile was gorgeous - so full of the joys of life.

jam_mac_jam

I think its a bit weird also. If she was only ok looking would it be less of a tragedy?

Its very weird to be commenting on the looks of somebody that is the age she is that you do not know. I am not really sure of the relevance and I agree its a bit on the creepy side but I think people don't mean it to be as you could describe a child as beautiful also. I don't think its sexual or intended to be. Just a bit of a weird comment.

retro:electro

She was absolutely beautiful looking and it’s not creepy in the slightest to acknowledge that. This photo of her in particular took my breath away. Stunning.



She had a beauty that seemingly went unappreciated by her peers. I feel absolutely no shame in acknowledging the beautiful face she had.

zanador

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I think its a bit weird also. If she was only ok looking would it be less of a tragedy?

Its very weird to be commenting on the looks of somebody that is the age she is that you do not know. I am not really sure of the relevance and I agree its a bit on the creepy side but I think people don't mean it to be as you could describe a child as beautiful also. I don't think its sexual or intended to be. Just a bit of a weird comment.

I think if it was any child we would be finding the beauty in them. 'Look at those eyes' 'Oh, he had such a cheeky grin'

Also, it just so happens that Ana was a beauty and should that be taken away from her just because others don't have that? I find that a very 'Irish' concept. It's like saying someone was intelligent or whatever, it's just a fact and should be celebrated.