Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

jam_mac_jam

zanador wrote: »

I think if it was any child we would be finding the beauty in them. 'Look at those eyes' 'Oh, he had such a cheeky grin'

Also, it just so happens that Ana was a beauty and should that be taken away from her just because others don't have that? I find that a very 'Irish' concept. It's like saying someone was intelligent or whatever, it's just a fact and should be celebrated.

No, it shouldn't be taken away from her when others didn't have it. I find it a weird comment to make on a young girl that you don't know. If that is "Irish" or being Irish is a bad thing I really don't know.

retro:electro

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No, it shouldn't be taken away from her when others didn't have it. I find it a weird comment to make on a young girl that you don't know. If that is "Irish" or being Irish is a bad thing I really don't know.

It’s something about her that is so obvious to most people except, it seems, those who were close in age to her. I’m glad people here are acknowledging a quality about her that was so obviously overlooked by most of her peers. She was beautiful. It’s not the most important thing about her by any means but there’s nothing wrong in recognising it.

Stop moaning ffs

Well these were easily the weirdest two or three pages of this entire thread.

iamwhoiam

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No, it shouldn't be taken away from her when others didn't have it. I find it a weird comment to make on a young girl that you don't know. If that is "Irish" or being Irish is a bad thing I really don't know.

It is not at all weird, Ana was beautiful and I will say it out loud .She deserves that recognition now and I hope her parents know we can say it out loud too

dudara

@stop moaning ffs yellow carded for breach of thread ban

dudara

Kidchameleon

splinter65 wrote: »

Children are referred to as beautiful all the time, and their beauty is mentioned a lot.
“Beautiful baby”
“Beautiful child”
“Beautiful boy”
You want to attach sexual connotations to that ? Very telling.

None of the examples you give there are analogous to the way people are talking about Ana in this thread.

Neyite wrote: »

Why do you think that acknowledging the beauty of a child is something sexually deviant?

Are you serious? People here are not saying she is beautiful in the same way a parent would say their child is beautiful. How can they? It is quite disturbing.

iamwhoiam

Kidchameleon wrote: »

None of the examples you give there are analogous to the way people are talking about Ana in this thread.



Are you serious? People here are not saying she is beautiful in the same way a parent would say their child is beautiful. How can they? It is quite disturbing.

No it really isn’t . Its you who has an issue .
Ana was stunningly beautiful and there is absolutely nothing wrong in saying it out loud . She had a gorgeous smile too .
It very strange that you have a problem with people saying Ana was beautiful . Its a compliment !

Vicarious Function

Kidchameleon wrote: »

None of the examples you give there are analogous to the way people are talking about Ana in this thread.



Are you serious? People here are not saying she is beautiful in the same way a parent would say their child is beautiful. How can they? It is quite disturbing.

No it's not disturbing. You're attributing some issue to this that simply doesn't exist.

Hannibal_Smith

Kidchameleon wrote: »

None of the examples you give there are analogous to the way people are talking about Ana in this thread.



Are you serious? People here are not saying she is beautiful in the same way a parent would say their child is beautiful. How can they? It is quite disturbing.

She was beautiful, inside and out. A gorgeous happy girl. I couldn't give a monkeys whether that disturbs you. Any one with a bit of common sense would get the intent behind it. Grow up.

Omackeral

I've reported a certain user on here umpteen times but they just continue to pile the dickish comments on anyway. Firstly calling Ana's parents her ''mam'' and ''dad'', which was beyond the pale by miles, and now trying to stir the pot with this horrible commentary decrying posters saying that she was a beautiful girl. She was a beautiful girl and the fact this poster has an issue with people saying that tells me that it's them who has the weird issue.

Also PMed the Moderator as we're often told to do (as well as reporting this user over other horrible posts) but haven't gotten anything back. People have received warnings and cards on this thread for much less than what the poster I'm referring to has said and I'll probably be added to that list too. Card me or warn me if you wish but please put an end to this person's horrendous offerings or at least investigate them for crying out loud.

I don't know if it's trolling or they genuinely mean what they're saying but there's absolutely no respect from them on this thread and how they're still allowed to vomit such disrespect on this topic I'll never know. It's disgusting.

Monumental

Neyite wrote: »

Why do you think that acknowledging the beauty of a child is something sexually deviant?

Her beauty is not referring to her looks it is simply acknowledging that she was a beautiful girl inside and out . RIP beautiful Ana

jay1988

Anyone on this thread who is calling posters who say Ana was beautiful are "creepy" or "weird" would want to have a long hard look at themselves.

If your connecting any sexual connotations to it, most likely you are the creepy or weird one.

SirChenjin

Omackeral wrote: »

I've reported a certain user on here umpteen times but they just continue to pile the dickish comments on anyway. Firstly calling Ana's parents her ''mam'' and ''dad'', which was beyond the pale by miles, and now trying to stir the pot with this horrible commentary decrying posters saying that she was a beautiful girl. She was a beautiful girl and the fact this poster has an issue with people saying that tells me that it's them who has the weird issue.

Also PMed the Moderator as we're often told to do (as well as reporting this user over other horrible posts) but haven't gotten anything back. People have received warnings and cards on this thread for much less than what the poster I'm referring to has said and I'll probably be added to that list too. Card me or warn me if you wish but please put an end to this person's horrendous offerings or at least investigate them for crying out loud.

I don't know if it's trolling or they genuinely mean what they're saying but there's absolutely no respect from them on this thread and how they're still allowed to vomit such disrespect on this topic I'll never know. It's disgusting.

I have done the same.
No doubt we will be the ones carded but I am genuinely horrified at what has been allowed to stand on this thread. As no action was taken, I put that poster on ignore because I genuinely could not bear to read the disgraceful posts.

dudara

Kidchameleon wrote: »

None of the examples you give there are analogous to the way people are talking about Ana in this thread.

Are you serious? People here are not saying she is beautiful in the same way a parent would say their child is beautiful. How can they? It is quite disturbing.

This line of discussion stops now. You are creating noise without any basis.

Posters - please do not continue this line of discussion.

@Omackerel - I came this close to carding you for knowingly bringing up a point that moderators had asked to be left alone. Consider yourself very fortunate.

dudara

depaor01

So a quick summary.

Ana was young, beautiful and violently and horrendously murdered. The guilty are about to be sentenced.

I think that's where we are now.

Dave

splinter65

I don’t expect the sentencing to go ahead on the 15. The judge expressed interest in interviewing the parents of the two boys.
He’ll get a feeling about their background from that which will help him to make appropriate deductions.

sullzz

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t expect the sentencing to go ahead on the 15. The judge expressed interest in interviewing the parents of the two boys.
He’ll get a feeling about their background from that which will help him to make appropriate deductions.

That is what's worrying, evil can come from a good or bad background.
Let's hope the Judge makes the correct call and hands them both a lengthy sentence.

iamwhoiam

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t expect the sentencing to go ahead on the 15. The judge expressed interest in interviewing the parents of the two boys.
He’ll get a feeling about their background from that which will help him to make appropriate deductions.

There is nothing to prevent the parents from lying though ? That would worry me a little

Hannibal_Smith

I think the judge has been really careful and methodical throughout the trial. I respect the fact that he's taking such consideration before sentencing.

branie2

When will the sentencing be?

Suckit

branie2 wrote: »

When will the sentencing be?

Due to be on Monday.

branie2

Thanks

splinter65

iamwhoiam wrote: »

There is nothing to prevent the parents from lying though ? That would worry me a little

I don’t think he’s seeking assurances or promises or anything like that. I think he wants to speak to them to get a “feeling” about the boys home life, upbringing etc
so he can understand more what brought them to this depravity.
Boy bs father already nailed his colors to the mast with his obnoxious outburst in court. The judge will be keen to see how deep that vein of lack of any conscience goes....

iamwhoiam

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t think he’s seeking assurances or promises or anything like that. I think he wants to speak to them to get a “feeling” about the boys home life, upbringing etc
so he can understand more what brought them to this depravity.
Boy bs father already nailed his colors to the mast with his obnoxious outburst in court. The judge will be keen to see how deep that vein of lack of any conscience goes....

What I really meant was that the parents could potentially say the boys had a tough life and were bullied etc or struggled with a death or something to make them look vulnerable . I guess the judge is far more clued in though and wont be influenced

volchitsa

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t expect the sentencing to go ahead on the 15. The judge expressed interest in interviewing the parents of the two boys.
He’ll get a feeling about their background from that which will help him to make appropriate deductions.

I don't think that should necessarily delay sentencing though - presumably being available for anything to do with their sons' trial should be a priority for the parents, you'd hope so anyway.

splinter65

volchitsa wrote: »

I don't think that should necessarily delay sentencing though - presumably being available for anything to do with their sons' trial should be a priority for the parents, you'd hope so anyway.

I don’t suppose they even have to be available. I think it’s already been suggested in the press that sentencing will be possibly delayed while these arrangements for interviews are made.it doesn’t matter anyway. The judge can take as long as he likes as far as I’m concerned as long as there’s justice for Ana.

Suckit

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/parents-of-the-two-boys-found-guilty-of-ana-kriegel-murder-likely-to-be-interviewed-by-courtappointed-clinicians-ahead-of-sentencing-38269554.html

THE PARENTS of two boys found guilty of murdering Ana Kriegel are likely to be interviewed by court-appointed clinicians during the course of preparing reports on them.

Both a child psychiatrist and a consultant forensic psychiatrist will now be asked to prepare reports on the two defendants, in addition to reports on the boys from a clinical psychologist, after further direction was sought on the judge's orders.

The teenagers were found guilty last month of the murder of Ana Kriegel at an abandoned farmhouse in Lucan on May 14, 2018.

One of them, known only as Boy A, was also convicted of aggravated sexual assault.

The teenagers, who were just 13 years old at the time, had denied the offences.

Ana's body, naked apart from a pair of black socks, was found by gardai in a derelict farmhouse, Glenwood House, Laraghcon, Clonee Road, in Lucan at 1pm on May 17, 2018.

The 14-year-old had been reported missing by her parents Patric and Geraldine Kriegel three days earlier.

Following the guilty verdicts, Mr Justice Paul McDermott remanded both boys in custody to Oberstown Detention Centre, and adjourned sentencing.

The judge had also ordered probation and psychiatrist reports for both defendants, as well as school reports and any other available reports, saying he was "seeking professional assistance" in relation to this very difficult case.

This morning, the matter came before Judge McDermott again, after Brendan Grehan SC, for the DPP, said that the office had received a letter from Professor Harry Kennedy, consultant forensic psychiatrist and executive clinical director, National Forensic Mental Health Service.

Mr Grehan said Prof Kennedy had sought some directions in terms of complying with the judge's orders.

Mr Grehan said Prof Kennedy had made a number of suggestions in his letter, including that the boys be assessed by a clinical psychologist with appropriate child and adolescent experience, and that the boys' parents be interviewed.

Mr Grehan said Prof Kennedy had further suggested that the teenagers be assessed by both a consultant child psychiatrist and a consultant forensic psychiatrist.

Patrick Gageby SC, for Boy A, said his client's family had no objection to the course recommended by Prof Kennedy. However, Mr Gageby said it was not entirely clear to the defence whether the Central Mental Hospital or the HSE had a consultant forensic psychiatrist specialising in child and adolescent matters on its books.

Mr Gageby said he was aware there was such a specialist in the UK.

Damien Colgan, for Boy B, also said his client and family would co-operate and had no difficulty with Prof Kennedy's suggestions.

Judge McDermott said he accepted the clinical recommendations of Prof Kennedy in assisting the court.

He accepted that the timescale for preparing the reports may now be more extensive.

The judge also said he was conscious the boys were in the early stages of their teenage years. He said he would like some indication from the director of Oberstown as to how young offenders, who are in the detention centre for longer periods, are dealt with in terms of educational and other facilities.

The matter is due before the court again on July 15.

mrjoneill

volchitsa wrote: »

I don't think that should necessarily delay sentencing though - presumably being available for anything to do with their sons' trial should be a priority for the parents, you'd hope so anyway.

I had assumed there was an automatic (mandatory) life sentence for a murder conviction with the trial judge imposing a tariff of period to be served in detention with the right for review. But this is not the case the Children's Act allows these to walk away after sentence being served if they are given a determined sentence & the state has no recourse to recalling them on expiry of it should they re-offend. Same they will have no criminal record. I'm sure the trial judge will be very aware of these facts when it comes to sentencing esp taking into account the devious twisted savagery these got up to in the brutal murder of the beautiful girl Ana and the fact there has been no expressions of remorse. I fear esp of Boy A being out in less than 10yrs living next to people and they totally unaware of who he is.

splinter65

Suckit wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/parents-of-the-two-boys-found-guilty-of-ana-kriegel-murder-likely-to-be-interviewed-by-courtappointed-clinicians-ahead-of-sentencing-38269554.html

Thanks. This is all very encouraging. 3 professional medical child mental health practitioners examined 16 year old schoolboy Aaron Campbell in the course of his trial and sentencing earlier this year for the abduction rape and murder and concealing the body of 6 year old Alesha McPhail last summer in Scotland and found him to have no psychiatric illnesses apart from a slight personality disorder.
The judge then could give him a minimum of 27 years in prison and ordered that he be named and his picture published.
A very satisfactory result.

mrjoneill

zanador wrote: »

With all the talk of boys and porn etc I thought I'd go to an expert and ask their opinion - ie my 14 year old son.

He said 'ah, ma, we know it's not real, it's just for **** and I bet we don't watch half as much as you think' he went onto say that there are boys who watch loads and get obsessed but that's very rare. And also what about girls watching it.

I said should it be banned and he said no and that 'the torture vids some people send round are worse'. Executions and torture and the like. And I asked should they be banned and he said maybe.

My opinion as a parent is this: No point banning anything, they'll do it anyway or find a way and if it's forced underground then we REALLY won't have an idea what they are doing. I have an open house as in all this stuff is talked about regularly and no judgements cast. As with drugs and all other life things really I think all we can do is give them guidance, hopefully at home and definitely at school, and then just hope.

I have a much bigger problem with all the adults who let Ana down. For example as a teacher and youth worker if i saw kids getting up and leaving every time another child came over then I wouldn't rest until it was sorted. Same with the school. I'd have parents in and restorative work done and would keep doing so until the problem stopped however long that took. I am furiousure at the school. Those two boys are aberrations imo, part of the diversity of our species (a terrible part) but if you are a good person who does nothing when a young girl is being destroyed by her peers then you are not a good person you are part of the problem.

RIP Ana

No doubt the genie is out of the bottle & the smart phone ensures its not going back in. What I understand is 12yr olds are now sharing their porn now like once we shared/swapped football card. The ones with the best porn is in most demand. Those without smartphones are being charged to view those who haven't, the going rate being €2. Obv the preference would be they would not get this access till well into their teens. But what damage is it doing? Is it turning society into a more aggressive sexual species? From reporting and court cases there is no doubt a rise in sex assault cases. This could also be due to a rise in reporting. I always reflect in our evolution and right into the middle ages sex was without much taboo associated to it and kids where exposed to it young.