Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

splinter65

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Yes thats fine & for the most part I agree with you. My point was that it was not because of B's fathers outburst that they are being assessed.

I think it is, at least partially. You’ve offered no reason as to why you think it’s not.

Suckit

I think the psychological profile is more important tomorrow than the sentencing (imo).
If they are reviewed to be 'normal', then the Judge could sentence them to life, but they would still be out in 10 in all likelyhood. Or at least that seems will be the case going by any similar cases.
If they are profiled as being in any way dark or obsessed with torture/rape/murder/violence or anything like that, then I hope it makes it a lot harder for them to get out in the future.
They will be reviewed again in 10 years with that profile hanging over them.

splinter65

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Nobody said he did



I was merely pointing out the flaw in your argument that all of the parents were being assessed as a result of B's fathers outburst, an error you are not succeeding in squirming your way out of...



Whats wrong with defending an innocent man? And I am not the one who is misrepresenting anybody, that is you...

I’m not squirming. At all. I’m not the one who said Ana’s father was in part to blame for her death as he let her leave the house.
I’m not the one who referred to Ana’s parents as her “mam” and “dad” apparently because she was adopted.
I’m not the one who has page after page dismissed posters disgust at boy bs fathers disgraceful outburst in court and held it up as an example of excellent parenting.
I’m not the one who steadfastly maintains that commenting on the beauty of a child, very traditional and commonplace in this part of the world, is “disturbing”.
That would be you.

Oranage2

Hardly fair to judge Boy B by his father's outburst. The lawyer probably thought he could get off so it was a big shock to the father. Now I agree with the verdict but there's no way to know that Boy B knew Boy A was going to kill her with the evidence given, if he didn't lie so much he'd have most likely been Scot free.

Sawduck

Yurt! wrote: »

Strong post. Edgy. 8/10

Thanks and it's all true too

McCrack

Oranage2 wrote: »

Hardly fair to judge Boy B by his father's outburst. The lawyer probably thought he could get off so it was a big shock to the father. Now I agree with the verdict but there's no way to know that Boy B knew Boy A was going to kill her with the evidence given, if he didn't lie so much he'd have most likely been Scot free.

Where does one begin with posts like this..

8-10

McCrack wrote: »

Where does one begin with posts like this..

That poster's post history is a good place to begin if you're trying to make sense of it

Monumental

Oranage2 wrote: »

Hardly fair to judge Boy B by his father's outburst. The lawyer probably thought he could get off so it was a big shock to the father. Now I agree with the verdict but there's no way to know that Boy B knew Boy A was going to kill her with the evidence given, if he didn't lie so much he'd have most likely been Scot free.

This is getting a bit tiresome now ,boy B''s father had enough time to come to terms that his son was involved in Ana's gruesome murder His outburst in court was unacceptable Dont know if boy B knew the final outcome ,but he was there ,saw the horrific murder ,perhaps he was part of it felt no need to let anyone know this poor girl was lying dead in an abondened house ,knowing her parents were lòoking for her He then went home and continued his life as normal Nothing normal about this

tayto lover

Oranage2 wrote: »

Hardly fair to judge Boy B by his father's outburst. The lawyer probably thought he could get off so it was a big shock to the father. Now I agree with the verdict but there's no way to know that Boy B knew Boy A was going to kill her with the evidence given, if he didn't lie so much he'd have most likely been Scot free.

The jury believed he was guilty and that’s all that matters.
Most people believe he knew and that he was a conniving little murderer.
Hope they get a big sentence. They deserve it.

tuxy

tayto lover wrote: »

Hope they get a big sentence. They deserve it.

Do you think they won't get a life sentence? Or that only one of them will?

Oranage2

I agree and also hope Boy B gets a harsh sentence, but the guilty conviction comes from the fact that he supplied the tape and his body language and intonation of his voice during the interview which the majority of us haven't seen. Based on the the knowledge I have of the case I thought his verdict could go either way.

And for the person asking where to start, all I said was he can't judge the parents, we know very little about them, they pleaded not as there's no advantage to plead guilty, and father B shouted in court, also father B didn't care much when the gardai arrived at his door and first asked Boy B questions. These pieces of information aren't enough to say he's a psychopath

tayto lover

tuxy wrote: »

Do you think they won't get a life sentence? Or that only one of them will?

They deserve it but I’d say they will get a sentence up to a certain age. Hard to know.

tayto lover

Oranage2 wrote: »

I agree and also hope Boy B gets a harsh sentence, but the guilty conviction comes from the fact that he supplied the tape and his body language and intonation of his voice during the interview which the majority of us haven't seen. Based on the the knowledge I have of the case I thought his verdict could go either way.

And for the person asking where to start, all I said was he can't judge the parents, we know very little about them, they pleaded not as there's no advantage to plead guilty, and father B shouted in court, also father B didn't care much when the gardai arrived at his door and first asked Boy B questions.

1. The Garda investigators thought he was guilty and recommended he be charged.
2. The DPP agreed having read the details.
3. The jury agreed he was guilty having listened to the evidence presented.

He’s guilty.

n97 mini

splinter65 wrote: »

There’s no doubt in my mind that the outrageous outburst from the father of boy b in part prompted the judge to seek reports on clinical interviews with both sets of parents.
The nature of the outburst was very telling, first of all the loud denial of what was obvious to anyone who could see and hear (“an innocent boy”), the attack on the Gardai the prosecution team and the jury, (“you bunch of scumbags”) all of whom had done an impeccable and faultless job ( as agreed by the defense team who had no complaints to make) and gave an insight to all but yourself about the nature of the man. The total contempt in that moment for the family of the child his son murdered.
It was a clear as a bell then that clinically anslysed interviews with both sets of parents would go along way to informing the judge as to appropriate sentencing.

Nobody's parents were on trial, so what they did or didn't do is of no consequence. The judge wants to build up a profile of both boys, by looking at all available information, before sentencing. This includes school reports. Like the parents, the school isn't on trial either.

Oranage2

tayto lover wrote: »

1. The Garda investigators thought he was guilty and recommended he be charged.
2. The DPP agreed having read the details.
3. The jury agreed he was guilty having listened to the evidence presented.

He’s guilty.

Yes

Oranage2

Monumental wrote: »

This is getting a bit tiresome now ,boy B''s father had enough time to come to terms that his son was involved in Ana's gruesome murder His outburst in court was unacceptable Dont know if boy B knew the final outcome ,but he was there ,saw the horrific murder ,perhaps he was part of it felt no need to let anyone know this poor girl was lying dead in an abondened house ,knowing her parents were lng for her He then went home and continued his life as normal Nothing normal about this

Well there are certainly many flaws to your argument but it doesn't matter, I don't want to debate this terrible murder, the majority of the evidence isn't available to the general public ie. The recordings of the interview.

Yes Boy B is guilty and yes I agree he's guilty.

Yes Boy B's father outburst was unacceptable but in my opinion there is no way we can connect that outburst and Boy B being a murderer.

donkeykong5

Sawduck wrote: »

Wait are people actually trying to defend you little murders/rapists, seriously come on people we all know these two disgusting rodents deserve the death penalty

Well said.

Monumental

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well there are certainly many flaws to your argument but it doesn't matter, I don't want to debate this terrible murder, the majority of the evidence isn't available to the general public ie. The recordings of the interview.

Yes Boy B is guilty and yes I agree he's guilty.

Yes Boy B's father outburst was unacceptable but in my opinion there is no way we can connect that outburst and Boy B being a murderer.

Please point out the flaws ,Have never had to try get my head around a murder like this

mrjoneill

Faugheen wrote: »

Anything you say in open court is noted. His comments are on the public record and were directed at the judicial system.

I understand he might be upset, but he saw everything his son did and he still had a pop at the Gardai while they were comforting two people whose daughter was brutally killed.

Your insistence to argue against anything in this case is baffling, to be perfectly honest. It's almost like you believe that Boy B didn't do it.

He said it was when the court was not in session therefore does not come under the contempt of court, what he said comes under the public order acts if the Gardai wish to pursue it.

Suckit

Oranage2 wrote: »

Hardly fair to judge Boy B by his father's outburst. The lawyer probably thought he could get off so it was a big shock to the father. Now I agree with the verdict but there's no way to know that Boy B knew Boy A was going to kill her with the evidence given, if he didn't lie so much he'd have most likely been Scot free.

McCrack wrote: »

Where does one begin with posts like this..

I think Oranage2 meant (and said) that there was no evidence to prove anything on Boy B. The first sentence was a separate point.
I agree with that (there was no physical evidence).

It's also hard to know where to start explaining any belief of what happened, as that's all it is. Guessing.
But going by the evidence we are privy to (in a nutshell so missing a bit).
Boy B was only caught (imo) because he was brought in to make a statement before he believed he was a suspect. At the time he still believed he was only 'helping' the Gardaí locate her.
Facts:
- by filling them with lies.
When Ana was found, Boy B's statement was reviewed along with cctv footage, and he had to lie again to explain why the cctv and his statement didn't match up. And then the lies continued (for over 16 hours of statements).

After many different statements (some of which have been published), One is of Boy B admitting that he was in the house and watched Boy A attack her.
His (I think) final statement says he ran away after watching Boy A flip her over and take off her top, because he was afraid.

“At first, I walked around but then I went back to the carpet area and I saw him flip her and start to choke her. When I saw that, I instantly knew what was happening and I was just shook. I didn’t know what to do.
“She was starting to cry a bit, she kept, like, saying ‘no, no don’t do this’ then Boy A started taking off her clothes but I left before he got to take off the bra.”
He later added: “So as Boy A was taking off her clothes – he looked at the door where I was standing and I sprinted away.” He described the incident to gardaí as “horrifying”.

Boy B walked home and stopped off at the park rangers hut to get a drink of water. (according to himself, witnesses and cctv) .
Once home he finished his homework and went upstairs to watch Anime on his TV in his bedroom.
The Gardaí called to his house that night (looking for Ana) and he was surprised to see them, but still calm. And never mentioned Boy A, the house or anything that he had seen.

A year later - and even though a lot of what he said did not match up, the father knew at the very least, his son had called into Ana's house, convinced her to come out, thought she was a weirdo and not somebody he liked, walked with her for 3km to bring her to an abandoned house and watched his friend whom he brought her to meet, beat her and strip her to her underwear.

Boy B then says he ran away 'sprinting'.
He cannot account for 35 minutes from when he ran away to when turns up again on cctv walking.

I am not blaming the parents, nor have I, for this heinous crime, but I do believe that Boy B's father is either not the brightest individual and that is why he erupted in court.
Or
He is just (putting it mildly) an inconsiderate ****ing idiot that is aware of everything that has happened and what Ana's parents have been through for a year (and will continue to go through for the rest of their lives), but still thought that was the best time to shout out - Because lets be honest, if he isn't stupid, he must have been able to see that his son had a hand in her death.
Albeit without any physical proof that he physically had a hand.
The father chose to believe everything his son said, and I can't blame him for that, but do think that there is a point when you have to stop believing, and murder would definitely be after that point.

Boy B claims to have watched Boy A strip her by pulling her top off over her head, but it was ripped off her.

Impossible to put bullet points in a nutshell, as I found out when I tried. There are tons of articles and each one gives a little bit of evidence/statements that were seen and heard in court that aren't in other publications.

Boy B's synopsis
https://www.thejournal.ie/who-is-boy-b-ana-kriegel-murder-trial-4657833-Jun2019/

Oranage2

McCrack wrote: »

Where does one begin with posts like this..

I apologize not everyone has the same narrow point of view as yourself...

McCrack

Don't apologise, just don't post moronic and contradictory posts

donkeykong5

Just hope that justice is done today in court. RIP Ana.

I'm hoping because her mam and dad are kind of friends of the local councillor , this will compound matters and see justice is really handed out with vigour and extreme prejudice.

Suckler

rusty cole wrote: »

I'm hoping because her mam and dad are kind of friends of the local councillor , this will compound matters and see justice is really handed out with vigour and extreme prejudice.

Beyond idiotic post.

Sardonicat

rusty cole wrote: »

I'm hoping because her mam and dad are kind of friends of the local councillor , this will compound matters and see justice is really handed out with vigour and extreme prejudice.

So you are hoping that the judge will be influenced by political pressure? You would actually like to live in a country where that happens?

According to RTE news, sentencing will likely be adjourned today as it's unlikely all the professional reports the judge requires will have been completed yet.

tayto lover

rusty cole wrote: »

I'm hoping because her mam and dad are kind of friends of the local councillor , this will compound matters and see justice is really handed out with vigour and extreme prejudice.

Well holy God ????

What Username Guidelines

Sardonicat wrote: »

So you are hoping that the judge will be influenced by political pressure? You would actually like to live in a country where that happens?

According to RTE news, sentencing will likely be adjourned today as it's unlikely all the professional reports the judge requires will have been completed yet.

Adjourned to October 29th

https://twitter.com/Orlaodo/status/1150710709262721028

splinter65

Ana Kriegel trial: Sentencing of schoolgirl's murderers adjourned until October

Good news. Hope everything is examined at length.

donkeykong5

rusty cole wrote: »

I'm hoping because her mam and dad are kind of friends of the local councillor , this will compound matters and see justice is really handed out with vigour and extreme prejudice.

I thanked this post by mistake