Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

iamwhoiam

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the parents will not be paid childrens allowance while their children are in oberstown.

Thanks I wasn’t sure about that

Kidchameleon

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Well I hope the parents have to pay for school books and school equipment for them . And use the children’s allowance for their extras in there

Yeah thatll teach em

Omackeral

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Yeah thatll teach em

Yes. Quite literally. That's the point.

iamwhoiam

Omackeral wrote: »

Yes. Quite literally. That's the point.

I would genuinely be interested what the parents would be expected to contribute towards the boys keep . Then responsibility doesn’t stop I hope . But I am guessing my taxes pay most of it

tuxy

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I would genuinely be interested what the parents would be expected to contribute towards the boys keep . Then responsibility doesn’t stop I hope . But I am guessing my taxes pay most of it

When children are taken from their parents and into the care of the state. Who normally pays in that situation?

iamwhoiam

tuxy wrote: »

When children are taken from their parents and into the care of the state. Who normally pays in that situation?

I am guessing our taxes

Vicarious Function

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Rehabilitating a couple of murderers is a worthwhile expense.

Assuming that it's possible to rehabilitate them!

splinter65

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Yeah thatll teach em

The parents won’t need Child Benefit again in respect of a child for whom they don’t incur any more expenses, hopefully they won’t be living at home as children any more.
It’s not a punishment on the parents it’s just common sense.
The taxpayer foots the bill from here out for the entire maintenance of your child. You can’t expect to get €145 per month as well.
Your sense of injustice on behalf of these parents knows no bounds.
Ana’s parents are down one child benefit too.
For much different reasons.
But your not too concerned about them.

Vicarious Function

splinter65 wrote: »

The parents won’t need Child Benefit again in respect of a child for whom they don’t incur any more expenses, hopefully they won’t be living at home as children any more.
It’s not a punishment on the parents it’s just common sense.
The taxpayer foots the bill from here out for the entire maintenance of your child. You can’t expect to get €145 per month as well.
Your sense of injustice on behalf of these parents knows no bounds.
Ana’s parents are down one child benefit too.
For much different reasons.
But your not too concerned about them.

I think you are putting a wrong interpretation on this, splinter65. People are just mulling over in their minds as to how the arrangements might work. Just discussing! Simple as!

Road-Hog

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I would genuinely be interested what the parents would be expected to contribute towards the boys keep . Then responsibility doesn’t stop I hope . But I am guessing my taxes pay most of it

Not sure what the prison service’s budget is but I would imagine that keeping animal A and animal B in detention/jail and ‘reforming’ them giving them new identities etc (despite how worthless/futile it seems) would be a very small percentage of the overall annual budget

Vicarious Function

Jon Venables, killer of James Bulger, was given a new identity. When he was released from prison, and had a few drinks in his local pub, he would divulge his real name to all who would listen. So much for being given new identities with all that that costs the Taxpayer!

Source: Crimes That Shook Britain C&I Channel Documentary.

forumdedum

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Jon Venables, killer of James Bulger, was given a new identity. When he was released from prison, and had a few drinks in his local pub, he would divulge his real name to all who would listen. So much for being given new identities with all that that costs the Taxpayer!

Source: Crimes That Shook Britain C&I Channel Documentary.

They were warned. 1 slip up and back to jail. That never happened. Why wouldn't he reveal his identity over and over knowing there was no consequence.

Absolute joke. And then the UK were trying to ship them abroad. What? to murder someone in another country. What a very odd world we live in.

tuxy

forumdedum wrote: »

They were warned. 1 slip up and back to jail. That never happened. Why wouldn't he reveal his identity over and over knowing there was no consequence.

Robert Thompson was the one the police considered the ring leader in that murder. What's your opinion of him since he left prison?

Vicarious Function

tuxy wrote: »

Robert Thompson was the one the police considered the ring leader in that murder. What's your opinion of him since he left prison?

According to the documentary on C&I Channel, Robert Thompson was regarded as being the more intelligent of the two. Apparently he has steered clear of the law and has not been back to prison, as Venables has. The comment that was made was that maybe Thompson possibly was smart enough to be able to evade being caught out in anything by Police.

Road-Hog

Vicarious Function wrote: »

According to the documentary on C&I Channel, Robert Thompson was regarded as being the more intelligent of the two. Apparently he has steered clear of the law and has not been back to prison, as Venables has. The comment that was made was that maybe Thompson possibly was smart enough to be able to evade being caught out in anything by Police.

Did I read somewhere that Thompson is a member of the LGBT 🏳️*🌈 part of society since his release...?

tuxy

Road-Hog wrote: »

Did I read somewhere that Thompson is a member of the LGBT 🏳️*🌈 part of society since his release...?

Perhaps, reports say he lives with his partner who is a man and knows about his past.

Tokyo

Road-Hog wrote: »

Did I read somewhere that Thompson is a member of the LGBT 🏳️*🌈 part of society since his release...?

Mod: Care to explain the relevance of this in the context of this thread?

Gadgetman496

forumdedum

tuxy wrote: »

Robert Thompson was the one the police considered the ring leader in that murder. What's your opinion of him since he left prison?

I have heard nothing about him.

Are they certain he was the ringleader?

I'm not sure why you asked that question. Assuming he did not slip up then there is no need to send him back to prison.

Venables, like Thompson, was warned not to slip up but he did. He should have been put back in for a long time in my opinion. After what was done to that child they were lucky not to have been sentenced for life.

Maybe I'm missing something here

ScottCapper

They should be hanged

tuxy

forumdedum wrote: »

Venables, like Thompson, was warned not to slip up but he did. He should have been put back in for a long time in my opinion. After what was done to that child they were lucky not to have been sentenced for life.

I believe they did get a life sentence since Thompson is out on life licence. It is still undecided if or when Venables will be released.

Vicarious Function

A remark has been made further back in this thread as to the relevance of some stuff being brought up here re the Bulger case. The fact that the perpetrators of that murder were two juveniles, Robert Thompson and Jon Venables, who have gone through the British system serves as an example of how the system here could work, as regards the sentencing of the two boys A and B.

As it happens, the judge in the British case chose to name the two perpetrators at their sentencing. During the court case Thompson and Venables had also been also known as Boy A and Boy B. Since then, varying opinions have been expressed as to the wisdom, or not, of the decision to name the two individuals.

Interesting to surmise as to whether our two will be named at the sentencing. Apparently it is within the Judges power to make that decision. Or is it?

Omackeral

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Interesting to surmise as to whether our two will be named at the sentencing. Apparently it is within the Judges power to make that decision. Or is it?

They won't be. They're protected by the Children's Act. The killers have been granted immunity ' from identity for life by all accounts, too. It was the topic of discussion on here for quite a while. Some feel that they should be named once they hit 18, others when they're released.

Also worth noting;

"The court has unlimited powers of imprisonment and fine for contempt of court and a person can also be jailed for up to three years if they break the relevant law in the Children Act."

Road-Hog

mike_ie wrote: »

Mod: Care to explain the relevance of this in the context of this thread?

None really. Didn’t mean to offend anyone.

Road-Hog

forumdedum wrote: »

I have heard nothing about him.

Are they certain he was the ringleader?

I'm not sure why you asked that question. Assuming he did not slip up then there is no need to send him back to prison.

Venables, like Thompson, was warned not to slip up but he did. He should have been put back in for a long time in my opinion. After what was done to that child they were lucky not to have been sentenced for life.

Maybe I'm missing something here

From memory he most certainly was regarded as the ring leader and most ‘evil’ of the two

volchitsa

Road-Hog wrote: »

From memory he most certainly was regarded as the ring leader and most ‘evil’ of the two

Yes but I think what we should conclude from that is that hindsight has shown this not to be so, because Thompson has apparently become a fairly normal person whereas Venables has remained obsessed with child sex abuse.

Why Venables was assumed to be the naive middle class boy led astray or even intimidated by the much rougher Thompson isn't clear. Perhaps Venables was manipulating the adults around him, even psychiatrists, but there may also have been certain amount of class prejudice contributing to people projecting that model onto the two boys.

That's why I think it would be a mistake to assume that Boy B's requests for Lego and such are genuine evidence of a childlike nature. They might be, or they might not. Given the crime he took part in, and his systematic lies about what happened, it would be a dangerous assumption.

Kidchameleon

splinter65 wrote: »

Ana’s parents are down one child benefit too..

Very very insensitive post there. Do you think they consider themselves "down child benefit"? Do you actually think they ever thought that??? They have lost their child for christ sake, I dont think they are too worried about a few measily euros.

Road-Hog

volchitsa wrote: »

Yes but I think what we should conclude from that is that hindsight has shown this not to be so, because Thompson has apparently become a fairly normal person whereas Venables has remained obsessed with child sex abuse.

Why Venables was assumed to be the naive middle class boy led astray or even intimidated by the much rougher Thompson isn't clear. Perhaps Venables was manipulating the adults around him, even psychiatrists, but there may also have been certain amount of class prejudice contributing to people projecting that model onto the two boys.

That's why I think it would be a mistake to assume that Boy B's requests for Lego and such are genuine evidence of a childlike nature. They might be, or they might not. Given the crime he took part in, and his systematic lies about what happened, it would be a dangerous assumption.

I don’t recall veneables being from a ‘middle class’ background. Thought they were both from same area...??

Neyite

Road-Hog wrote: »

I don’t recall veneables being from a ‘middle class’ background. Thought they were both from same area...??

I think they were both considered working class but that Thompson came from a more neglectful and chaotic home and was exposed to violent games and pornography etc by older brothers? Venables supposedly came from a normal enough home with nothing subsequently coming to light that was any kind of indicator or marker for the kind of violence and torture that he went on inflict. It's been a couple of decades since I read a book on it. It was written by the Police Psychologist on the case I think.

Suckit

After Venables was released and arrested again, he was allowed anonymity as an adult bringing attention to them again, which led to the public falsely identifying Scott Bradley as Robert Thompson. He couldn't go anywhere without being abused, and in the end took his own life.
He left a note citing the abuse as the reason.