Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Boggles

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Makes you wonder sometimes if Liberal Western democracy is all that civilised, that these guy's will be out in a decade and that they will now cost the tax payer a fortune for decades due to the inevitable task of relocating them outside the country upon their eventual release, have we really got the right approach to heinous crimes, people like these can never have redemption, death would be a mercy to them

Yeah, I don't think it is "liberal" not to execute children, even if they did commit a heinous crime.

Gatling

mariaalice wrote: »

Just maybe this will be the turning point where it will become the norm and expected as normal parenting to monitor the use of smartphones by young teens.

There will be no turning point unfortunately parents aren't suddenly going to develop a little cop on now ,
kids actively seeking child porn and animal porn at 12 + years that's a crazy situation that can only lead to further sick crimes like this

SaltSweatSugar

Nothing to add really that hasn’t been said already, but that poor, poor girl. One of the most harrowing cases I’ve ever seen. I’m glad her murderers are being held accountable and hopefully they’ll not see the outside of a prison for a very, very long time. No loss to society.

Fantastic work by the Guards, everyone involved in the investigation and prosecution, and the jury.

I really hope Ana’s family can get some solace from the fact these monsters are being brought to justice. My heart goes out to them.

gormdubhgorm

corks finest wrote: »

Defence solicitors guilty of greed

Unfair on them. They are just doing thier job for thier clients.
That is how the legal system works.

Would you prefer not having a trial at all. And just make an assumption of an individuals guilt by the look of the person?
No discussion of facts and so on etc.

LLMMLL

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

My friend's son was tormented with extreme sexual imagery he wasn't ready for when being bullied at school. I really don't get dismissal of concern regarding young teens' access to hardcore porn - it's like people don't want to look like prudes or something.

No it doesn't mean they'll automatically turn into degenerates, but I can't see why there isn't a conversation to be had when it's a relatively new development that previous generations simply did not experience.

There's no dismissal of concern. I wouldn't want any kids to be exposed to this imagery.

All I'm saying is that what would seem to be deviant desires in an adult maybe be within the realms of normality for children of a certain age. Children who look at animal porn are not necessarily degenerates.

Zeek12

Scotty # wrote: »

I'm not a judge but as I understand it they were tried as adults and thus will be sentenced as adults. If that's the case then the mandatory sentence is life in prison and as they both pleaded not guilty, I don't think they will be eligible for probation.

EDIT: That does not mean they will spend the rest of their lives in prison! But AFAIK they will receive full life sentences (hopefully anyway!)

Just on the sentencing question.
This seems to be the most similar case in recent history (in terms of the age of the offender at least).

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/killer-jailed-for-life-in-2004-to-be-free-in-two-years-1.1926143

He was initially sentenced to Life, but looks like this was reduced to 12 yrs after review.

Stop moaning ffs

LLMMLL wrote: »

There's no dismissal of concern. I wouldn't want any kids to be exposed to this imagery.

All I'm saying is that what would seem to be deviant desires in an adult maybe be within the realms of normality for children of a certain age. Children who look at animal porn are not necessarily degenerates.

It very often signals a disturbed individual to come in later years. Particularly hurting animals.

Faugheen

Boggles wrote: »

Possible maybe, but no, IMO.

Given what we know I would be firmly in the belief Boy A was the alpha in this.

His lies were just as callus and calculating as Boy B. Driving around looking for the 2 boys who beat him up is next level acting.

That said I don't think either of them are what I would describe as intelligent or special.

Boy A was like the child who got caught in front of the fridge with chocolate on his face and still claimed it wasn’t him who ate the chocolate. He certainly isn’t very intelligent to claim he didn’t do it when all the forensic evidence pointed towards him acting alone.

Boy B was a completely different. He lied about multiple things, but every lie he told threw Boy A under the bus. He claimed he was nervous/scared, but he clearly wasn’t nervous or scared about painting the picture of Boy A being the last person in Ana’s company. By all accounts he was cool, calm and composed throughout his Garda interviews, even when he admitted lying. He was clever enough not to leave any evidence at the scene.

Make no mistake about it, Boy B is the brains of this operation.

Franko.

Names and photos of the two lads doing the rounds on watsapp.

Imhof Tank

So if I understand it correctly B went to the interviews voluntarily, with his solicitor and a parent present, whereas A was either never interviewed at all or he clammed up.

If so then the father's outburst sounds to me like him reproaching himself over that decision to let his son be interviewed, whoever advised the family to go that way, whatever the guards said to them about it being for the best...

Basically if he didn't talk there was no forensics on him, he would be free tonight not a bother on him, probably wouldn't even have been charged. The strategy in terms of how they dealt with the guards had to have been the parents' decision

Hermy

mdol wrote: »

After the verdict was announced them two bastards should have been immediately dragged out of the court and hanged from the nearest tree.

And after them two bastards have been dragged out of the court and hanged from the nearest tree what should be done with the perpetrators of this additional crime?

This is it

Imhof Tank wrote: »

So if I understand it correctly B went to the interviews voluntarily, with his solicitor and a parent present, whereas A was either never interviewed at all or he clammed up.

If so then the father's outburst sounds to me like him reproaching himself over that decision to let his son be interviewed, whoever advised the family to go that way, whatever the guards said to them about it being for the best...

Basically if he didn't talk there was no forensics on him, he would be free tonight not a bother on him, probably wouldn't even have been charged. The strategy in terms of how they dealt with the guards had to have been the parents' decision

Of course Boy A was interviewed. I can only assume not much is made of his interview because of the concrete evidence they had against him, he could plead not guilty all he wanted but the evidence was overwhelming. With Boy B they had nothing but his statements, and that of Boy A, to implicate him in the murder.

Hermy

Hermy wrote: »

And after them two bastards have been dragged out of the court and hanged from the nearest tree what should be done with the perpetrators of this additional crime?

i think the suggestion is we ought to incorporate this as legal punishment for particularly filthy crimes

had you any other questions

A Summer In Provence

Ana’s parents mentioned in their testimony to the court that she was bullied relentlessly throughout her time at secondary school.

I hope school principals and boards of management the length and breath of this country pay attention to this case, while two boys were convicted of murdering her, it would appear that lots of other young people excluded her or bullied her during her very short life.

Bullying can have catastrophic effects on victims with many carrying the pain around with them for life - it’s time to start taking it seriously. There is no point in having an anti bullying policy displayed on the school website or printed in the school prospectus - the policy shouldn’t be an aspirational document, it should be fully implemented and sanctions should be handed out as and when required.

Rest In Peace Ana - I hope your parents get some peace from today’s guilty verdict.

Still waters

I hope they die a horrendous death in the very near future, I also wish these 2 cnuts could be hung from the nearest tree and fed to dogs but alas not to be

Boggles

Faugheen wrote: »

He was clever enough not to leave any evidence at the scene.

Jesus, people really have their brains warped by CSI, etc.

There is no one clever enough not to leave evidence if they were involved in a brutal murder, he wasn't involved in the actual killing that's why there is no physical evidence, the prosecution accepts this.

As for been clever, he called to the girls house in broad daylight and was seen doing it by several witnesses.

Neither of them is what I would call "clever".

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

Children who look at animal porn are not necessarily degenerates.

Yeah they are , hopefully further charges can be brought for possession of Child porn and beastiality t

py2006

There is no correlation between viewing porn and committing horrific murders.

It's like the people who blame playing video games for crimes or Marilyn Manson on Columbine.

We'd have multiple similar cases to the one in question on a daily basis if that was the case.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

tupenny wrote: »

No. They both come from " normal", "middle class " backgrounds

Middle class is a broad term.

Any reason why the defense didn’t lodge a guilty plea?

Gimme A Pound

Hermy wrote: »

And after them two bastards have been dragged out of the court and hanged from the nearest tree what should be done with the perpetrators of this additional crime?

It's just words on the internet caused by understandable anger. It wouldn't be my takeaway from the thread.

Reati

Franko. wrote: »

Names and photos of the two lads doing the rounds on watsapp.

I must be in the wrong (or right) groups. I never see anything that's "doing the rounds".

Hermy

Deleted User wrote: »

i think the suggestion is we ought to incorporate this as legal punishment for particularly filthy crimes

I would have hoped that the overriding feeling would be an abhorrence of murder instead of a desire for additional killings.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

py2006 wrote: »

There is no correlation between viewing porn and committing horrific murders.

It's like the people who blame playing video games for crimes or Marilyn Manson on Columbine.

We'd have multiple similar cases to the one in question on a daily basis if that was the case.

Porn could well have been the a cause here. Boy A was clearly influenced by something.

Stop moaning ffs

Complete run down of the trial. It’s well written but such a hard read at points.

Ana Kriegel murder trial: The complete story
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570

Cryptopagan

A Summer In Provence wrote: »

Ana’s parents mentioned in their testimony to the court that she was bullied relentlessly throughout her time at secondary school.

I hope school principals and boards of management the length and breath of this country pay attention to this case, while two boys were convicted of murdering her, it would appear that lots of other young people excluded her or bullied her during her very short life.

Bullying can have catastrophic effects on victims with many carrying the pain around with them for life - it’s time to start taking it seriously. There is no point in having an anti bullying policy displayed on the school website or printed in the school prospectus - the policy shouldn’t be an aspiration document, it should be fully implemented and sanctions should be handed out as and when required.

Rest In Peace Ana - I hope your parents get some peace from today’s guilty verdict.

Very difficult to deal with. If the kids are determined to ostracize one of their peers what do you do? If I was a parent I’d be inclined to just pull them out of the school and start over elsewhere. No easy answers though.

LLMMLL

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

There's no dismissal of concern. I wouldn't want any kids to be exposed to this imagery.

All I'm saying is that what would seem to be deviant desires in an adult maybe be within the realms of normality for children of a certain age. Children who look at animal porn are not necessarily degenerates.

It very often signals a disturbed individual to come in later years. Particularly hurting animals.

I've no idea what percentage of children who harm animals go on to become disturbed adults. I do know one person who grew up to be well adjusted.

However, every single person that I've discussed bizarre sexual behaviour at the ages of 10-13 with has had a story that as adults seem very disturbing. None of them grew up to be psychos (as far as I know).

sdanseo

Boy A was clearly guilty, the book of evidence sounds like it was more of a mountain.

Seems like the second fella was led the whole way by the first, hadn't a clue of the seriousness of what he did. Said the below after hearing the visit and asked for Lego in Oberstown.

jrnl.ie wrote:

Sat at the back of the courtroom, Boy B turned to his mother and asked: “I’m guilty?”

Horrific case. If the Bolger case hadn't happened I'd say it was society devaluing human life but the reality is there are just some sick twisted f*cks who can't be helped. Terrifying to think this kid could be walking the streets again in 10 years, a completely broken human and a danger to everyone.

joe40

Still waters wrote: »

I hope they die a horrendous death in the very near future, I also wish these 2 cnuts could be hung from the nearest tree and fed to dogs but alas not to be

This a heinous crime but I for one am happy to live in a country where children are not executed.
Like everyone I hope they get a long sentence and pay a heavy price.
If parents are in any way complicit in cover up they are utter scum also.
But seriously talk of hanging from a tree is just diminishing Ana's memory. Her parents dignity and obvious love was Impressive.

lemmno

Read a post a few pages back that a youth club worker saw a group of kids get up whenever Ana came down to sit with them. I don’t understand why so many adults just watched things like that happen? Isolation is so cruel, those kids should have been told that they make everyone feel welcome or they’re not in the youth club. End of.

Zeek12

A Summer In Provence wrote: »

I hope school principals and boards of management the length and breath of this country pay attention to this case, while two boys were convicted of murdering her, it would appear that lots of other young people excluded her or bullied her during her very short life.

Bullying can have catastrophic effects on victims with many carrying the pain around with them for life - it’s time to start taking it seriously. There is no point in having an anti bullying policy displayed on the school website or printed in the school prospectus - the policy shouldn’t be an aspiration document, it should be fully implemented and sanctions should be handed out as and when required.

Rest In Peace Ana - I hope your parents get some peace from today’s guilty verdict.

Bullying is such a horrible thing I totally agree.

But from what I've read of this case, wasn't the bullying primarily taking place on social media, rather than on school grounds as such?
Unfortunately this makes the policing element much more difficult for school management