Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

donkeykong5

SirChenjin wrote: »

My heart goes out to Ana's parents and her family as they face yet another ordeal tomorrow.

Really hope they get justice for what happened to their child.

Hoboo

KWAG2019 wrote: »

I simply recounted the facts and who was guilty of the crime. You seem to be reading emotion into that which is a defensive and fearful reaction. But that's of no interest to me.

We all know the story. I'm not reading emotion, you brought emotion into it. By recounting the story your attempt to stir emotion is a defensive reaction, to deflect from debate in which you have little other fact to offer......to highlight you doing so is not "fear", it's someone calling you out, and you don't seem to like it.

KWAG2019 wrote: »

I have seen people on the thread ask about the apparent injustice of being concerned about their dignity instead of the murdered child's. I saw you offer an explanation that he was legally obliged under human rights law to do that. I think people may not have understood the legal dignity that was involved which is a normal layman's response. The judge's interpretation of what he must do to uphold the legal right to dignity is his interpretation i.e. number of reporters etc. Others may differ.

It was explained in black and white in the report and these laymen couldn't comprehend it. Yet you expect they would have the ability to apply common sense if part of a jury.

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The confusion was caused by what you typed. "his role is not to ignore the law or apply the law in an impartial manner". What you typed states that his role is not to apply the law in an impartial manner. I assumed it was a mistake. You're welcome.

Correct. I should have said 'or rather apply'. Thanks for that.

KWAG2019 wrote: »

I beg to differ m'lud. I repeat juries rely on the judge to deal with law; they apply their common sense and humanity and emotion and reach a verdict. A human being devoid of emotions is an interesting proposition. A mature human being should be able to have them, recognise them and not be governed by them if inappropriate.

You can beg as much as you like, you'll still be wrong. I'll repeat what you actually said...

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Random juries are there to ensure that the common sense of ordinary people is applied to determine guilt or innocence.

The random jury system is in place to ensure democracy prevails, the role of the jury is as you stated above. A subtle but poorly executed attempt to yet again deflect your inaccuracies.

I'm now done, too emotional, confused and devoid of fact for me.

Brock Turnpike

Think a lot of people are going to be disappointed / outraged by the verdict today. Awful day for the family

howamidifferent

tuxy wrote: »

Doesn't the fact that Darren Goodwin received a life sentence increase the possibility that the judge will hand down a life sentence for these boys?
I think it makes it highly likely that he will for boy A, I wouldn't be as confident about boy B but still hope he does.

He was released after only 13 years, free at 28. And still no remorse.

ohnonotgmail

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Think a lot of people are going to be disappointed / outraged by the verdict today. Awful day for the family

There is no guarantee that the sentence will be passed today.

LollipopJimmy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

There is no guarantee that the sentence will be passed today.

I'd have thought a sentence would be unlikely today, hearing of evidence and reading of victim impact statements

ohnonotgmail

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I'd have thought a sentence would be unlikely today, hearing of evidence and reading of victim impact statements

Yeah i was probably overstating the possibility of a sentence being passed today.

Gadgetman496

They will not be sentenced today.

tuxy

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

They will not be sentenced today.

Yes, a full hearing to be held today but sentencing postponed until a later date with no date given yet.

tayto lover

Will we even be told what’s in the psychiatric reports?

smelly sock

Knowing the Irish Legal system this evil will be back lurking among us before Anna would have reached 25 or 30. A sad state of affairs indeed. Hopefully life will mean life in this case but it never does over here in most cases. Not sure why. Martin Nolan would probably hand down a suspended sentence amd coomend them for being brave.

Thoie

From the Irish Times:

"today’s hearing will include a summary of the evidence by a garda detective inspector and a statement by Ana’s parents and is likely to take a full day."

Ulysses Gaze

Let’s hope that wanker of a father of Boy B keeps his ****ing mouth shut this time.

If not, throw him in jail for contempt.

tuxy

Can we leave the anger or lack of until we finally hear the sentence?

smelly sock

tuxy wrote: »

Can we leave the anger or lack of until we finally hear the sentence?

Id agree normally but I think we are just pre-empting the obvious.

LollipopJimmy

*Breaking News

Boy A has admitted to killing Ana

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/boy-a-admits-at-sentence-hearing-to-causing-ana-kriegels-death-denies-sexual-assault-960379.html

tayto lover

So according to that article in the Times -

Boy A is denying sexually assaulting Ana.

Boy B is still denying any part in her murder.

Hope they get a very long sentence.

smelly sock

tayto lover wrote: »

So according to that article in the Times -

Boy A is denying sexually assaulting Ana.

Boy B is still denying any part in her murder.

Hope they get a very long sentence.

Boy A looking for a more lenient sentence obviously. The horse has well and truly bolted there you would hope.

jmayo

smelly sock wrote: »

Boy A looking for a more lenient sentence obviously. The horse has well and truly bolted there you would hope.

Sadly this is Ireland where the justice system seems to believe any old shyte.
They will look for any excuse to ease the pain for the perpetrators.

tuxy

tayto lover wrote: »

Hope they get a very long sentence.

I keep seeing posts asking for a very long sentence but are there not only two options?
The maximum sentence usually handed down to a minor and released at 18 years of age. (have I got this wrong?)
Or a life sentence which is an undetermined amount of time(at least 7 years but longer is more likely) and depends on future reviews of the parole board. A life sentence would mean they would be monitored to some extent for the rest of their lives.

I understand the outrage but not the lack of awareness of the law that the same posters have had explained over and over.

DellyBelly

Will they be named when they get sentenced?

salmocab

DellyBelly wrote: »

Will they be named when they get sentenced?

No

tayto lover

tuxy wrote: »

I keep seeing posts asking for a very long sentence but are there not only two options?
The maximum sentence usually handed down to a minor and released at 18 years of age. (have I got this wrong?)
Or a life sentence which is an undetermined amount of time(at least 7 years but longer is more likely) and depends of future time. A life sentence would mean they would be monitored to some extent for the rest of their lives.

I understand the outrage but not the lack of awareness of the law that the same posters have had explained over and over.

Maybe I should have said “ as long as possible”.
Does that satisfy you?

tuxy

DellyBelly wrote: »

Will they be named when they get sentenced?

I don't see why they would since it would mean new identities on release and could only cause possible harm to the family of the guilty. One member of the boys family has already been attacked.

tuxy

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe I should have said “ as long as possible”.
Does that satisfy you?

How long is as long as possible since we can't predict what may happen in 7 - 10 years from now?

SEPT 23 1989

tuxy wrote: »

One member of the boys family has already been attacked.

over the weekend

big brave lads beating up an innocent kid (which he is)

feel very sorry for him

tayto lover

tuxy wrote: »

How long is as long as possible since we can't predict what may happen in 7 - 10 years from now?

Surely that will be down to the Judge.

tuxy

tayto lover wrote: »

Surely that will be down to the Judge.

If he does not give a life sentence it will be.

If he does give a life sentence he can give advice to the parole board to take on board for the future but ultimately it would be down to them. 7 yeas would be the minimum under these circumstances but 10 - 12 would be more likely. In theory they could decide to never release them. So it's out of the judges hands once he passes a life sentence but this is the outcome I am hoping for as it will be the longest sentence, we will not have any idea how long it will be until it comes up for review in 7 - 10 years.

salmocab

tuxy wrote: »

If he does not give a life sentence it will be.

If he does give a life sentence he can give advice to the parole board to take on board for the future but ultimately it would be down to them. 7 yeas would be the minimum under these circumstances but 10 - 12 would be more likely. In theory they could decide to never release them. So it's out of the judges hands once he passes a life sentence but this is the outcome I am hoping for as it will be the longest sentence, we will not have any idea how long it will be until it comes up for review in 7 - 10 years.

Think it’s the minister for justice of the day who has the final say on lifers being released.

tayto lover

That Victim Impact Statement is so harrowing.
God love Ana’s parents and give them some peace.