Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

retro:electro

Absolutely beautiful and touching words by Ana’s parents in their statement. I cannot even imagine their sadness and trauma, but their heartbreak was palpable. I defy anyone not to tear up when hearing it. A beautiful girl who has left such a massive void in the lives of those who loved her more than anything and would give anything to have her back.
Not even going to mention the two evils.

tayto lover

It seems that they will be sentenced next Tuesday 5th November.
If the Judge listens to the harrowing Victim Impact Statement and takes into account the not guilty plea of the boys then he simply has to dish out a fitting sentence. Ten years is not fitting imo. Fifteen to twenty at least.

pjohnson

iamwhoiam wrote: »

No I wouldn’t . My point was he is not doddery simply by being a grandfather . He might be very blind to his grandchilds discusting behaviour but that not doddery its plain stupid . I just hate the word doddery just because someone is older

I didnt call him doddery just due to age, I called him doddery due to his age combined with his ramblings.

Old people can be smarter and more alert than people a quarter their age. This one clearly is quite dull.

splinter65

I see boy b has been abandoned now by his father who was defended here for weeks by one persistent poster as the greatest parent of all time.

iamwhoiam

pjohnson wrote: »

I didnt call him doddery just due to age, I called him doddery due to his age combined with his ramblings.

Old people can be smarter and more alert than people a quarter their age. This one clearly is quite dull.

What age is he ? For all we know he could be in his 50’s . In my opinion the word doddery has no place in describing him . But thats for another thread I guess

Suckit

pjohnson wrote: »

I didnt call him doddery just due to age, I called him doddery due to his age combined with his ramblings.

Old people can be smarter and more alert than people a quarter their age. This one clearly is quite dull.

I have a spare shovel here if you are looking..

Hal3000

tayto lover wrote: »

It seems that they will be sentenced next Tuesday 5th November.
If the Judge listens to the harrowing Victim Impact Statement and takes into account the not guilty plea of the boys then he simply has to dish out a fitting sentence. Ten years is not fitting imo. Fifteen to twenty at least.

Won’t happen in Ireland, be prepared to be outraged.

danger mouse

Be right back wrote: »

It's a pity we don't have American type sentencing here.

The US justice system can be a little extreme in many cases. But I agree in this case some American style justice would have been nice. Boy A would have definitely never seen the light of day again and Boy B would have been a very old man when he had freedom.

A similar case of violence against a young girl and she didn't even die and one of the kids will never see freedom.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/09/second-teen-sentenced-in-plot-that-left-girl-shot-in-head/

thecretinhop

Yeah but that can be a little extreme sometimes


what did they do to the poor girl was that a little extreme???

danger mouse

thecretinhop wrote: »

Yeah but that can be a little extreme sometimes


what did they do to the poor girl was that a little extreme???

Sorry I mean the US justice system can be extreme, Two different thoughts I should have separated them better.

Mebuntu

Anyone who can read that victim impact statement and not be upset must be made of stone.

When I hear talk that these two will remain anonymous for life and that their "dignity" will be respected I despair.

These evil, vile scumbags should experience Hell on Earth for what they did..........for as long as their rancid flesh is alive. Anything less is an insult to Ana and her family.

tuxy

Why are some posters here still living in some kind of fantasy land just so they can be even more outraged when the judge gives out the actual sentence.

He can not give them 20,15 or even 10 year.
We don't know that the judge will give a life sentence to them, I pray he does.
If he does he can recommend that it does not come up for review for 10 - 12 years. Anything else will be appealed and probably successfully so.
This case makes me extremely angry and sad too but I try not to make it cause me to lose touch with the reality of the law of the country we live in.
If you are unhappy with that then I hope we have a GE soon so people can vote in politicians that can make changes.

Hal3000

Mebuntu wrote: »

Anyone who can read that victim impact statement and not be upset must be made of stone.

When I hear talk that these two will remain anonymous for life and that their "dignity" will be respected I despair.

These evil, vile scumbags should experience Hell on Earth for what they did..........for as long as their rancid flesh is alive. Anything less is an insult to Ana and her family.

Be ready to be outraged when you see the sentence. Just remember we live in a system that jails garlic importers for 6 years and let’s people who view child abuse material walk free with suspended sentences. Our minister is not concerned with protecting our children and I imagine this case will be no different.

The people here who used to defend the justice system are gone because even they know how bad things have gotten in Ireland.

RoryMac

xalot wrote: »

Here's the full victim impact statement, it's just so sad

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/life-without-ana-is-no-longer-a-life-full-text-of-geraldine-kri%C3%A9gel-s-victim-impact-statement-1.4065876

Jesus that's a tough read, the torture her parents and friends are living with each day is something nobody should have to deal with.

ChikiChiki

That victim impact statement would break a heart of stone :-(

God love them. Unimaginable.

volchitsa

splinter65 wrote: »

I see boy b has been abandoned now by his father who was defended here for weeks by one persistent poster as the greatest parent of all time.

Any chance of a link to this please, I haven't really come across mention of any of the boys' families except the grandfather of Boy A?

(Not doubting it, but would like to know more).

suicide_circus

10 years will be too lenient and appealed

20 would be probably be appealed as too harsh (yeah i know)

probably somewhere between the two

wrangler

Hal3000 wrote: »

Be ready to be outraged when you see the sentence. Just remember we live in a system that jails garlic importers for 6 years and let’s people who view child abuse material walk free with suspended sentences. Our minister is not concerned with protecting our children and I imagine this case will be no different.

The people here who used to defend the justice system are gone because even they know how bad things have gotten in Ireland.

Every aspect of the public service is fecked up at the moment, judge could hand down anything
~
#Public disservice

iamwhoiam

volchitsa wrote: »

Any chance of a link to this please, I haven't really come across mention of any of the boys' families except the grandfather of Boy A?

(Not doubting it, but would like to know more).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50210221?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world&link_location=live-reporting-story



The grandfather of Boy A said his family offered "sincerest regret and remorse" to the Kriégel family.

He described Mrs Kriégel's statement as eloquent and passionate.

He said Boy A "was and is a loving, caring and kind child" and that there "will be a great gap in all our (family) lives" depending on the sentence.

He said he hoped in the future to have a positive relationship with his grandson.

A lawyer for Boy B told the sentence hearing that his client disputed the jury's verdict.

'Remorse' for 'inactivity'
He said the boy and his father had fallen out over what happened and that explained the father's absence at the hearing.

He said the boy was not a risk for re-offending and was being treated for occasional suicidal tendencies.

tuxy

wrangler wrote: »

Every aspect of the public service is fecked up at the moment, judge could hand down anything
~
#Public disservice

Are you saying it's possible for him to give a harsher sentence than life?
I don't see how.

Suckit

iamwhoiam wrote: »

A lawyer for Boy B told the sentence hearing that his client disputed the jury's verdict.

'Remorse' for 'inactivity'
He said the boy and his father had fallen out over what happened and that explained the father's absence at the hearing.

He said the boy was not a risk for re-offending and was being treated for occasional suicidal tendencies.

That's a very tough one to get my head around.

On one hand I believe it to be a good thing that the father has not turned up, as many asked early on in this thread, how could he stand by him etc..

On the other hand, He has pretty much hung his son out to dry by not turning up having possibly made any chance of appeal a little more difficult. But he may have got the son to admit things he himself didn't want to believe. We may never know.

In any case, that father was struggling from the outset with his handling of this, which I guess is understandable. But ignoring the Garda at his door suggested he wasn't the brightest.

wrangler

tuxy wrote: »

Are you saying it's possible for him to give a harsher sentence than life?
I don't see how.

I'm saying the PS has let us down day after day, the judge could do anything.
As hal 33000 says be prepared to be enraged

volchitsa

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50210221?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world&link_location=live-reporting-story

A lawyer for Boy B told the sentence hearing that his client disputed the jury's verdict.

'Remorse' for 'inactivity'
He said the boy and his father had fallen out over what happened and that explained the father's absence at the hearing.[/I]

He said the boy was not a risk for re-offending and was being treated for occasional suicidal tendencies.

Thanks for that. Very odd isn't it, going from one extreme to the other like that.

I actually wonder if the father isn't part of whatever abnormalities led Boy B to be the person he is. The father doesn't seem to be up for assuming responsibilities either it seems. Presumably he wouldn't have to say anything, but he could still be present all the same. Or done like the grandfather of Boy A, apologised to Ana's family.

Suckit

As for either of their 'remorse'. I don't believe it, not for a second. They are sorry that they were caught that is all. The two of them pleaded not guilty, lied all the way through, left Ana there for 3 days without saying a word and only now at their sentencing are they showing any sign that they are unhappy as to how things have turned out.

Stepping Stone

I accept that I may be wrong but this is my theory about the grandfather and his staggering arrogance. The man is a retired teacher, so probably enjoyed an audience of pupils almost daily. Good reputation, probably on the committee for every association or group locally. In his own head, someone that is important and looked up to. A well respected man in fact.
When Boy A gets into trouble grandad decides that he needs to be there. After all, his opinion is worth so much! Family reputation in tatters, today was his opportunity of setting the record straight and letting everyone know that in his expert opinion his grandson is an unfortunate victim of circumstances. Poor loving child is suicidal and the family are suffering without him. Obviously he’s sorry for Ana’s family but not as sorry as he is for himself and his ego.

tuxy

wrangler wrote: »

I'm saying the PS has let us down day after day, the judge could do anything.
As hal 33000 says be prepared to be enraged

If both of them don't get a life sentence I will be angry at the judge.
If they do and are out soon after the first review I will angry at the parole board and minister for justice.
I'm not going to be angry at either until I think they have failed society.(I know they have in other cases but we are talking about this case here)

There should be at least two general elections before their release. I can try to vote based on changes to the justice system. Unfortunately I can't see it being such a pressing matter for the general population but what more can I/we do?

wrangler

tuxy wrote: »

If both of them don't get a life sentence I will be angry at the judge.
If they do and are out soon after the first review I will angry at the parole board and minister for justice.
I'm not going to be angry at either until I think they have failed society.(I know they have in other cases but we are talking about this case here)

There should be at least two general elections before their release. I can try to vote based on changes to the justice system. Unfortunately I can't see it being such a pressing matter for the general population but what more can I/we do?

,

It amazes me the sense of entitlement some children have, some grow out of it and some are like this pair,
I hope they suffer some day as ana did

tayto lover

wrangler wrote: »

,

It amazes me the sense of entitlement some children have, some grow out of it and some are like this pair,
I hope they suffer some day as ana did

I don’t want to see people suffer.
I just want them removed from society for a long time so that no more people suffer at their hands.
There is too much suffering already.

strandroad

iamwhoiam wrote: »

He said Boy A "was and is a loving, caring and kind child"

How can you stand up and say something like this to the family who's daughter he assaulted and murdered. I have no words.

iamwhoiam

strandroad wrote: »

How can you stand up and say something like this to the family who's daughter he assaulted and murdered. I have no words.

It was so very insensitive .