Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

tayto lover

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I definitely think the victim or their fzmily should be heard in court . They should have a voice and the murderers should hear them in this case

Plus the fact that other little potential murderers can hear how devastating the effects are on families and friends. Might do some good.

cgcsb

For the grandfather, he has also lost his grandson. I mean he'd be dead to me if I were him, it would be a mourning of sorts. Maybe he should've said that instead of singing boy a's praises. I think people like boy a, John venebals etc. Should be executed, it's clear to every psychologist and social worker these people meet that they are so far beyond rehabilitation that there's no point in handing down any other punishment. People who commit lesser crimes should be required to work, something manual preferably. Society would be a lot more harmonious.

Stallingrad

That VIS was absolutely heart breaking.

Rage will achieve nothing worthwhile long term.

If anything comes from this I hope that parents talk to their boys, get off their screens and engage. Talk to them about this case and their responsibilities as men toward women, sexuality, respect and empathy.

It begins and ends with parenting.

Purple Mountain

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It was so very insensitive .

Shut your mouth grandad.
An innocent girl died because of your flesh and blood.

tuxy

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Do any serve all their life in prison? Disregard anyone who had a heart attack in their 50s or stuff like that.

In a way yes, they will be out on licence for the rest of there lives assuming a life sentence is given.

Hal3000 wrote: »

I’ll be out protesting - demanding that our laws change.

That's a lie but I'd be happy if you prove me wrong.

tayto lover

I wonder what the odds are on two murdering little sods being in the same class in the same school and capable of hatching a plan to murder a fellow pupil and then carrying it out.
The last similar murder must have been the James Bulger murder in the early 1980’s although the child was not even at school.
Anyone remember anything similar?

spurious

pjohnson wrote: »

Would you describe a grandchild convicted of sexual assault and murder as "kind and loving"?

The way he describes his grandson seems to indicate he is missing quite a few screws and is badly disconnected from reality.

It is quite possible Boy A is 'kind and loving' to his family and still have done what he did.

THAT is the really disconcerting thing about this case. They were not weirdo freakish types hanging about. They were, to all intents and purposes, 'normal' kids.

They still did what they did and you can be sure there are others out there like them.

iamwhoiam

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder what the odds are on two murdering little sods being in the same class in the same school and capable of hatching a plan to murder a fellow pupil and then carrying it out.
The last similar murder must have been the James Bulger murder in the early 1980’s although the child was not even at school.
Anyone remember anything similar?

Mary Bell and Norma Bell . ( not related )
Have a read about them

tuxy

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Mary Bell and Norma Bell . ( not related )
Have a read about them

Disturbing case but I think he was looking for examples where more than one young child conspired to kill another.Norma Bell was acquitted.
I'm drawing a blank, it's far more common for someone to act alone in these horrific cases.

Iwouldinmesack

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder what the odds are on two murdering little sods being in the same class in the same school and capable of hatching a plan to murder a fellow pupil and then carrying it out.
The last similar murder must have been the James Bulger murder in the early 1980’s although the child was not even at school.
Anyone remember anything similar?

James Bulger was early 90s. 93 I believe.

donkeykong5

It's on primetime now

cgcsb

Stallingrad wrote: »

That VIS was absolutely heart breaking.

Rage will achieve nothing worthwhile long term.

If anything comes from this I hope that parents talk to their boys, get off their screens and engage. Talk to them about this case and their responsibilities as men toward women, sexuality, respect and empathy.

It begins and ends with parenting.

Oh do spare us the Helen Lovejoy spiel. He didn't kill her because he watched a horror movie or pornography, he killed her because he's a little psycho people like him have always been and always will and it's nothing to do with some sexist telling them they have responsibility based on their gender

cgcsb

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder what the odds are on two murdering little sods being in the same class in the same school and capable of hatching a plan to murder a fellow pupil and then carrying it out.
The last similar murder must have been the James Bulger murder in the early 1980’s although the child was not even at school.
Anyone remember anything similar?

You only need one sicko and one idiot

donkeykong5

cgcsb wrote: »

You only need one sicko and one idiot

Or two scumbag murderers.

kravmaga

suicide_circus wrote: »

10 years will be too lenient and appealed

20 would be probably be appealed as too harsh (yeah i know)

probably somewhere between the two

I can see them getting 15 years each, thats just my opinion

tuxy

kravmaga wrote: »

I can see them getting 15 years each, thats just my opinion

12 years before it comes up for review then 3 years before release. Or that it comes up for review sooner and is denied a few times?

iamwhoiam

cgcsb wrote: »

You only need one sicko and one idiot

Which one do you think is which ?

kravmaga

tuxy wrote: »

12 years before it comes up for review then 3 years before release. Or that it comes up for review sooner and is denied a few times?

Possibly, that said I think the Judge has a tough job on sentencing on this case

tuxy

kravmaga wrote: »

Possibly, that said I think the Judge has a tough job on sentencing on this case

I really think/hope he has to go for life sentences for both of them. Even at the risk that there may be an appeal.
The recommendation for when it should be up for review is the difficult part.

Stallingrad

cgcsb wrote: »

Oh do spare us the Helen Lovejoy spiel. He didn't kill her because he watched a horror movie or pornography, he killed her because he's a little psycho people like him have always been and always will and it's nothing to do with some sexist telling them they have responsibility based on their gender

If you think there is something wrong in trying to engender those values in young men then I hope you don't have a son. My get off screens comment was aimed at both parents and children, and yes, I do believe young, vulnerable children's sense of empathy can be damaged by exposure to extreme porn, which boy A was watching.

omega man

Stallingrad wrote: »

If you think there is something wrong in trying to engender those values in young men then I hope you don't have a son. My get off screens comment was aimed at both parents and children, and yes, I do believe young, vulnerable children's sense of empathy can be damaged by exposure to extreme porn, which boy A was watching.

Bit of a difference between “getting off the screens” and watching extreme porn in all honesty.

iamwhoiam

I just watched Prime Time . What a beautiful family Ana had , what a lovely kind girl she was . The VIS is heartbreaking yet beautiful . I hope her family can find peace and with lots of help and support can remember the good times with Ana .
RIP Ana

SirChenjin

Way back on this thread I said that no matter what happened as a result of the trial, nothing would comfort Ana's family. I was told by another poster - and I quote - that what I said was 'untrue and unhelpful'.

Sadly I do have some insight into how it feels to lose a loved one in violent circumstances.

I can't even express how I feel listening to what Mrs Kriegel said today. So much of it, in fact every word of it is heartbreaking, but possibly the most poignant line, to me, was that Ana hoped that 'everyone she met would be nice.'

Once more, I just want to say that I cannot commend enough the dignity of the Kriegel family, in the face of this absolute horror, and the diligence of the Gardaí and all concerned, who worked tirelessly to bring that pair successfully to trial.

May they get the sentences hat they fully deserve.
May that beautiful innocent child rest in peace.

Hellrazer

SirChenjin wrote: »

I can't even express how I feel listening to what Mrs Kriegel said today. So much of it, in fact every word of it is heartbreaking, but possibly the most poignant line, to me, was that Ana hoped that 'everyone she met would be nice.'

The same here-I was listening to the statement on the way home in the car and literally had tears running down my face driving.

Couldn't help thinking what if it was my 13 year old daughter that these 2 scumbags had murdered.

I really hope the judge does the right thing and gives them the maximum sentence available to him but Im holding my breath on that one knowing the ****ed up justice system we have in this country.

Vicarious Function

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/boy-as-grandfather-much-loved-grandson-incredibly-remorseful-for-what-happened-960438.html

At first when people heard that Boy A's Grandfather had stated that

his grandchild was a loving, caring and kind child, who never showed aggression or ill-temper

We were outraged at the insensitivity of such a statement in the presence of the Kriegels. Taken as a whole the Grandad spoke well. How bewildered must he be at how his beloved Grandson could have behaved in the way he did. How totally unexpected if this is the way he had perceived his grandson. Of course he is going to try and speak favorably of the boy in order to get the sentence reduced. Obviously the man really can't come to terms wirth what has happened - a form of denial, possibly. He can't see the evil in his grandson and is determined to support him after the sentence is imposed. The man deserves our sympathy - on second thoughts.

iamwhoiam

I used the think they should show the boys photos and warn us all about them .Now I am glad they did not , they should get no attention or notoriety from this
We know how wonderful Ana was and her lovely photos and her enjoying herself .Let us all remember Ana and not give the boys any notion that they are in any way gaining attention or notoriety .

HildaOgdenx

iamwhoiam wrote: »

We know how wonderful Ana was and her lovely photos and her enjoying herself .Let us all remember Ana and not give the boys any notion that they are in any way gaining attention or notoriety .

Completely agree.

volchitsa

Vicarious Function wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/boy-as-grandfather-much-loved-grandson-incredibly-remorseful-for-what-happened-960438.html

At first when people heard that Boy A's Grandfather had stated that

We were outraged at the insensitivity of such a statement in the presence of the Kriegels. Taken as a whole the Grandad spoke well. How bewildered must he be at how his beloved Grandson could have behaved in the way he did. How totally unexpected if this is the way he had perceived his grandson. Of course he is going to try and speak favorably of the boy in order to get the sentence reduced. Obviously the man really can't come to terms wirth what has happened - a form of denial, possibly. He can't see the evil in his grandson and is determined to support him after the sentence is imposed. The man deserves our sympathy - on second thoughts.

I wouldn't actually blame the grandfather, I think he did the best he could. But I just don't understand why the families of the two criminals are expected/allowed to speak at all TBH.

If what they had to say was important (and as you point out, he's going to be smoothing over anything negative in the boy's past activities anyway so as not to make things worse for him, so it's not terribly useful anyway) that could have been done as a written report given to the judge.

But TBH even then, what could he possibly have to say that should influence the judge's opinion in any way?

MadYaker

From reading the Irish times it sounds like boy a will get a life sentence with a review in ten years, potentially for extension as well as release. Boy b could get something much more lenient, short stint in oberstown followed by a long parole. Though he could also get life but I think that’s unlikely.

salmocab

volchitsa wrote: »

I wouldn't actually blame the grandfather, I think he did the best he could. But I just don't understand why the families of the two criminals are expected/allowed to speak at all TBH.

If what they had to say was important (and as you point out, he's going to be smoothing over anything negative in the boy's past activities anyway so as not to make things worse for him, so it's not terribly useful anyway) that could have been done as a written report given to the judge.

But TBH even then, what could he possibly have to say that should influence the judge's opinion in any way?

Well it is probably useful in a lot of cases, it gives background and tells the judge what kind of family or how they are in the community. It can give an indicator of whether a crime is a once off or something more. The problem here is people are emotionally involved in this case but the court has to treat them like any other convicted people would be and they have to be afforded the same rights.