Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Road-Hog

Road-Hog wrote: »

Anyone out there recall the Lavinia kerwick (apologies Re spelling)....guy got off a rape conviction based on being from a respectable family.....there was outrage at he time.....

Correction.....I should have said he got off with a suspended sentance.

Hal3000

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Judge Martin Nolan is due to sentence a female Ex-teacher tomorrow.

Interesting to see how that goes!

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1030/1087525-teacher/

I’d happily put my life savings on a suspended sentence. The petition to get him out is fast approach 7k signatures.

dartboardio

Interesting alright that Boy A has acknowledged he killed her and Boy B has changed his tune multiple times.

Both should be hung anyway imo.

Extremely hard to watch that prime time without crying!

tuxy

dartboardio wrote: »

Both should be hung anyway imo.

Luckly it was not a hung jury in this case and the verdict for both was unanimous.

Gadgetman496

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Judge Martin Nolan is due to sentence a female Ex-teacher tomorrow.

Interesting to see how that goes!

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1030/1087525-teacher/

20 quid to the poor box and 2 hour suspended sentence....knowing Nolan

FishHook

volchitsa wrote: »

This is the man who roared out in court? Presumably he apologised for that rather than for the boy's actions?

The clown did a slow hand clap too.

Vicarious Function

mcgovern wrote: »

Do you know what privately means? Unless I'm one of the 3 people involved in the conversation then obviously I've no proof or backup? ......

If you were privvy to a private conversation, what gives you the right to broadcast it in public on social media?

CollyFlower

Thank God Nolan is not the judge in this case.

brendanwalsh

I pray every day that those two boys suffer a horrendous life; what they did to that poor girl was awful.

I would advocate for the death penalty to be reintroduced for sick animals like these kids and graham Dwyer

tuxy

brendanwalsh wrote: »

I pray every day that those two boys suffer a horrendous life; what they did to that poor girl was awful.

I would advocate for the death penalty to be reintroduced for sick animals like these kids and graham Dwyer

Do you think the availability of such sentences would have prevented this?

fritzelly

tuxy wrote: »

Do you think the availability of such sentences would have prevented this?

Not at all, there are individuals who are just wired wrong or easily influenced
But I get what the OP means, it's a horrible case that has no solution

Gadgetman496

fritzelly wrote: »

Not at all, there are individuals who are just wired wrong or easily influenced
But I get what the OP means, it's a horrible case that has no solution

While the system can't change what happened, it can or at least attempt to ensure that those two never get the chance to do it again.

Suckit

tuxy wrote: »

Do you think the availability of such sentences would have prevented this?

I know the question wasn't directed at me, and I think I get where you are coming from (obviously I can't know), and I guess I would probably normally agree with you.

But. Tonight I have met a friend who lives abroad and we had a few drinks.....
This came up.

A large part of me (tonight) thinks that if the boys knew that as 12/13 year olds they could be hanged for murder, then not only would they not have gone through with it. They mightn't even have planned it.
I don't for one second believe that everything up to Ana's murder was not planned.

fritzelly

Even in countries with the harshest criminal sentences does not stop people doing the worst things imaginable knowing what will happen if caught

tuxy

fritzelly wrote: »

Even in countries with the harshest criminal sentences does not stop people doing the worst things imaginable knowing what will happen if caught

But some people would get some comfort knowing these boys would die and possibly suffer in the process.
Not the Kriegel's, they have shone no desire for revenge but there are many on here who would be more content from that outcome.
Once people realise such laws are not a deterrent then there should be focus on other methods to help reduce the possibility of such horrors happening again, I understand it is impossible to completely put an end to such needless disgusting crimes.

brendanwalsh

Some crimes are so heinous that the perpetrators deserve death, both as a punishment, as a prevention for the rest of society and as a form of genetic cleansing of the human race

This is one of those cases

tuxy

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Some crimes are so heinous that the perpetrators deserve death, both as a punishment, as a prevention for the rest of society and as a form of genetic cleansing of the human race

This is one of those cases

The prevention part of it does not work, as proven in many societies around the world.
What's the theory behind the genetic cleansing? That's a new one to me and I know nothing about it.
The siblings of the boys have not committed any crimes, should they be cleansed since they hold the same genetic code?

Hannibal_Smith

Suckit wrote: »

I know the question wasn't directed at me, and I think I get where you are coming from (obviously I can't know), and I guess I would probably normally agree with you.

But. Tonight I have met a friend who lives abroad and we had a few drinks.....
This came up.

A large part of me (tonight) thinks that if the boys knew that as 12/13 year olds they could be hanged for murder, then not only would they not have gone through with it. They mightn't even have planned it.
I don't for one second believe that everything up to Ana's murder was not planned.

Getting caught and punished wasn't in their game plan at all. So I don't think the likelihood of being hanged would have mattered. They thought they were too clever for everyone. If Ana's dad hadn't noticed it was boy b at the door would they have been caught?

With the cctv footage, they weren't able to pick out boy b and say it was him, as far as I remember. It was only knowing she left with him, they were able to work out it was him.

Boy b was so calm in the interviews he thought they were home and dry.

That's probably the most chilling part about it. They never thought they would get caught to be punished. Even now, I don't think boy a admitting to anything stems from remorse. I think it's an attempt to help himself get a lighter punishment.

They still don't get it.

splinter65

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Getting caught and punished wasn't in their game plan at all. So I don't think the likelihood of being hanged would have mattered. They thought they were too clever for everyone. If Ana's dad hadn't noticed it was boy b at the door would they have been caught?

With the cctv footage, they weren't able to pick out boy b and say it was him, as far as I remember. It was only knowing she left with him, they were able to work out it was him.

Boy b was so calm in the interviews he thought they were home and dry.

That's probably the most chilling part about it. They never thought they would get caught to be punished. Even now, I don't think boy a admitting to anything stems from remorse. I think it's an attempt to help himself get a lighter punishment.

They still don't get it.

It was Anas brother who answered the door to boy b that evening. Boy b would have known that the brother would be able to identify him later on. And he still didn’t shirk from the plan. Get Ana to the deserted house.

Hannibal_Smith

splinter65 wrote: »

It was Anas brother who answered the door to boy b that evening. Boy b would have known that the brother would be able to identify him later on. And he still didn’t shirk from the plan. Get Ana to the deserted house.

Patric was relaxing outside, taking in the May sunshine, when, at 4.55pm, he heard the doorbell. It was Boy B. He asked for Ana. When her father told her who was at the door, Ana was confused. She knew who the boy was, but they were by no means friends. Nonetheless she went down and spoke to him.

It was Anas father who answered the door. They had to look on facebook to try and find his surname because they only vaguely knew him.

Road-Hog

tuxy wrote: »

The prevention part of it does not work, as proven in many societies around the world.
What's the theory behind the genetic cleansing? That's a new one to me and I know nothing about it.
The siblings of the boys have not committed any crimes, should they be cleansed since they hold the same genetic code?

If these two degenerates get say ten years in the ‘detention centre’ / holding Pen and get assessed after 6/7 years and are deemed reformed and no longer a threat to society is there any option to ‘tag and track’ then for the rest of their lives, impose curfews on them etc.......?

Ulysses Gaze

Road-Hog wrote: »

If these two degenerates get say ten years in the ‘detention centre’ / holding Pen and get assessed after 6/7 years and are deemed reformed and no longer a threat to society is there any option to ‘tag and track’ then for the rest of their lives, impose curfews on them etc.......?

Probably against their "Human Rights" to do so.

ohnonotgmail

Road-Hog wrote: »

If these two degenerates get say ten years in the ‘detention centre’ / holding Pen and get assessed after 6/7 years and are deemed reformed and no longer a threat to society is there any option to ‘tag and track’ then for the rest of their lives, impose curfews on them etc.......?

if they get a life sentence they will be on licence for the rest of their life.

splinter65

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Patric was relaxing outside, taking in the May sunshine, when, at 4.55pm, he heard the doorbell. It was Boy B. He asked for Ana. When her father told her who was at the door, Ana was confused. She knew who the boy was, but they were by no means friends. Nonetheless she went down and spoke to him.

It was Anas father who answered the door. They had to look on facebook to try and find his surname because they only vaguely knew him.

You’re absolutely correct. I had it in my head that the brother could name him on sight. My bad. My point still stands though.
I don’t think boy b was bothered about being identified, do you? Might make you wonder if he did know what exactly was about to unfold.
The fact that he didn’t run for help either during the attack or after it makes him as bad as boy a in my mind.

Hannibal_Smith

splinter65 wrote: »

You’re absolutely correct. I had it in my head that the brother could name him on sight. My bad. My point still stands though.
I don’t think boy b was bothered about being identified, do you? Might make you wonder if he did know what exactly was about to unfold.
The fact that he didn’t run for help either during the attack or after it makes him as bad as boy a in my mind.

Like I say, I don't think he thought they'd figure out it was him who was involved. I thought I read somewhere that a garda said he looked surprised when they called to his door the first evening. But I could be wrong.

There's no way he isn't in it up to his neck.

Vicarious Function

Boy B wasn't all sweetness and light. He had founded a secret "zombie group" based on the "dark side" which had a list of rules. He had managed to attract a number of his classmates to join and sign up. He had remarked to the Gardai that Ana was not a person you would want to be seen with. I don't think he had planned on being seen by Ana's father, when he came knocking at the door, and that betweeen the Father and brother they could piece together who he was. That was the start of the collapse of whatever plan he and Boy A had.

splinter65

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Boy B wasn't all sweetness and light. He had founded a secret "zombie group" based on the "dark side" which had a list of rules. He had managed to attract a number of his classmates to join and sign up. He had remarked to the Gardai that Ana was not a person you would want to be seen with. I don't think he had planned on being seen by Ana's father, when he came knocking at the door, and that betweeen the Father and brother they could piece together who he was. That was the start of the collapse of whatever plan he and Boy A had.

I think the surprise for boy b was that the authorities were looking for Ana so quickly and that he had been identified so soon. He was quite quite confident that he could lie his way out of it.
Adults are so stupid remember and will literally believe anything you tell them.
And he’d been careful not to touch her so no forensics.

Neyite

tayto lover wrote: »

I don’t know.
They were clever enough in their planning. Taking different routes and times returning from the murder house, taking her to it and planning what to say afterwards. These boys are clever schemers in my mind. They didn’t once behave like kids.

Yes, all that can be thought out and researched. It's the emotional intelligence and logic from life experience that an adult might possess is what I meant was lacking from their plan.

Teens are great for half arsed planning. For example they might plan to borrow a parent's car. But don't consider getting caught, or causing harm. Those facebook free gaff parties are another example. To a teen you have a free gaff and you want you want to throw an epic party. But you don't stop to consider what will happen when your 1000 friends on FB land in and set the house on fire. So while they planned in detail the event, they were not emotionally intelligent enough to consider forensics or that anyone would even look for her because as far as they were concerned everyone* hated her.


*when you are a teen, "everyone" consists of your peers at school. Parents and teachers are just embarrassingly irrelevant adults who don't have a clue and are out of touch with the world so didn't even factor in their considerations.

I don't know if I'm explaining it very well, sorry.

KWAG2019

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if they get a life sentence they will be on licence for the rest of their life.

Do you know if there are stats on numbers of those who get life who are sent back to prison to serve out the remainder of the sentence?

Captain_Crash

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Do you know if there are stats on numbers of those who get life who are sent back to prison to serve out the remainder of the sentence?

Ireland's longest serving prisoner John Shaw has been out a couple of times over the years but violated his license and is in for good. Don't have stats for how many go back tho.