Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

SEPT 23 1989

splinter65 wrote: »

I’d go as far as to say that the state should help them to relocate to somewhere they won’t be known.

Can’t see them staying

splinter65

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Can’t see them staying

It’s probably financially impossible to leave. A little help might be needed. Then they’d be leaving their son behind too.

glenfieldman

splinter65 wrote: »

It’s probably financially impossible to leave. A little help might be needed. Then they’d be leaving their son behind too.

If a son of mine done that to someone, Id leave them in a ditch, never mind a comfortable room

tupenny

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Can’t see them staying

Hope you're right but unlikely

maxsmum

Anyone else wonder what went wrong with these two boys and also the young fella sentenced for attempted murder of Stephanie Ng yesterday?
I have a young fella and I'm just hoping and praying he turns out normal. I'd love to know how the families of those 3 boys would have described them as infants and toddlers etc

SEPT 23 1989

maxsmum wrote: »

Anyone else wonder what went wrong with these two boys and also the young fella sentenced for attempted murder of Stephanie Ng yesterday?
I have a young fella and I'm just hoping and praying he turns out normal. I'd love to know how the families of those 3 boys would have described them as infants and toddlers etc

You can only do your best

splinter65

glenfieldman wrote: »

If a son of mine done that to someone, Id leave them in a ditch, never mind a comfortable room

If you actually had a son you’d know that that’s not what you’d do.

Letwin_Larry

maxsmum wrote: »

Anyone else wonder what went wrong with these two boys and also the young fella sentenced for attempted murder of Stephanie Ng yesterday?
I have a young fella and I'm just hoping and praying he turns out normal. I'd love to know how the families of those 3 boys would have described them as infants and toddlers etc

crikey talk about not setting the bar too high!
might i be so bold as to suggest you try steering, encouraging or guiding the lad in the direction of aspiring to be someone that contributes something to society?

splinter65

maxsmum wrote: »

Anyone else wonder what went wrong with these two boys and also the young fella sentenced for attempted murder of Stephanie Ng yesterday?
I have a young fella and I'm just hoping and praying he turns out normal. I'd love to know how the families of those 3 boys would have described them as infants and toddlers etc

The young fella yesterday has severe psychiatric problems that his parents had been trying desperately to get help for.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well yes, but capital punishment would be more straight forward if you're going down that route, and capital punishment would at least prevent attacks on the perpetrators' families from occurring.

I don't see what benefit removing anonymity would have. Discussing the length of the sentences is a different matter though. Remember that reviews can increase the length, if deemed necessary.

Incarceration is one thing. I don’t advocate a life for a life.

I just think of what a victim feels, the fear and if by naming perpetrators causes them to live in fear upon release as adults then they may in some way understand the consequences of their actions.

I’d also like to say I don’t understand why anyone would attack the families of the perpetrators and I don’t advocate for vigilantism.

If people feared the consequences of their actions then maybe that would stop some. Ideological and utopian maybe but shielding someone is maybe not the right route.

splinter65

maxsmum wrote: »

Anyone else wonder what went wrong with these two boys and also the young fella sentenced for attempted murder of Stephanie Ng yesterday?
I have a young fella and I'm just hoping and praying he turns out normal. I'd love to know how the families of those 3 boys would have described them as infants and toddlers etc

If you keep up a dialogue with him even when he doesn’t want to have a dialogue with you you’ll both be fine. Say “how are you?” everyday looking him in the face even when your tired the **** of him and his **** it’ll be fine. Make sure he knows that everyone he meets is a human and needs to be respected.

holliehobbie

splinter65 wrote: »

The young fella yesterday has severe psychiatric problems that his parents had been trying desperately to get help for.

The lack of help for people with mental health issues in this country is shocking. The case above is completely different to these two boys who don't have mental health issues. That is what is so shocking: that they don't have psychiatric problems.

Letwin_Larry

splinter65 wrote: »

The young fella yesterday has severe psychiatric problems that his parents had been trying desperately to get help for.

yes there was a case close to where i live where a young fella murdered an old person. his parents did everything to get the lad help as he was clearly unwell, but all to no avail.
the night of the murder before he was ejected from a pub, he even boasted to people that he was going to kill somebody, but nobody took him seriously.

his mum & dad now visit him in Dundrum.

where this case differs is that lad was suffering severe mental illness, but these 2 scrotes appear not to be insane but bad to the bone.

Pauliedragon

maxsmum wrote: »

Anyone else wonder what went wrong with these two boys and also the young fella sentenced for attempted murder of Stephanie Ng yesterday?
I have a young fella and I'm just hoping and praying he turns out normal. I'd love to know how the families of those 3 boys would have described them as infants and toddlers etc

The medical community have been trying to figure that out for donkeys. They still can't agree. Are people born bad? Is it upbringing? or is it a combination?

Letwin_Larry

Pauliedragon wrote: »

The medical community have been trying to figure that out for donkeys. They still can't agree. Are people born bad? Is it upbringing? or is it a combination?

we had some guy on earlier trying to convince us all it "was his smartphone that made him do it"

the fact that killers existed long before iphones, the WWW, social media, porn flicks etc. was totally lost on him.

HildaOgdenx

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Lovely words from Anas Mam and Dad . At the end of the day it is they who need our love and support . Lets keep Ana in our hearts and do not give the boys and reason to think they are in anyway important . I am in one way glad they are not named and their photos splashed on newspapers , they must not for one minute they are in some perverse way gaining attention or notariety
Ana photo is in all our hearts and memories , let the boys sink into oblivion

Lovely words from Ana's parents, and so so heartbreaking.

Their grief and loss is unimaginable and they have maintained such enormous dignity throughout.

It's all so wrong. Ana should be now studying for her Junior Cert. Her parents should be living the ordinary lives of millions of others. It's just all so wrong.

They have told us about their beautiful, loving, and deeply loved daughter.
We can do one small thing for them. We can keep Ana in our hearts.

unkel

So boy A is now on the sex offenders list. I seem to remember there is a duration for this, depending on the severity of the crime? If so, presumably in this case for life?

Let's presume he at some stage is released and gets a new identity. I would then presume he is placed again on the sex offenders list under his new name?

These sex offenders lists are not public?

Will this boy be forced to have psychiatric treatment during his detention? Or chemical castration?

Apologies for what seems like a random list of questions, but I am concerned about what happens if / when he is released. I'm usually fairly liberal in my views, but someone who has done what he has should never be let out imho unless we are near certain he won't do it again.

lozenges

Will this boy be forced to have psychiatric treatment during his detention? Or chemical castration?

.[/quote]

Neither Boy A nor Boy B have been diagnosed with a psychiatric illness so they will not receive treatment for one. I expect they will both have ongoing input from a psychologist though.
Chemical castration is not performed as a result of criminal convictions.

Rubberchikken

i think its necessary for these boys names to remain known only to those who know them, or deal with them.

what purpose does it serve to the general public to know who they are?

i certainly wouldnt remember their names in 12 or 15 years and wouldnt care anyway.

based on the willingness of sone to talk if taking the law into their hands maybe its best that the law is there giving them anonymity.

let them do their detention and let the authorities offer them opportunities to acknowledge the horrific attack they carried out.

Rubberchikken

Rubberchikken wrote: »

i think its necessary for these boys names to remain known only to those who know them, or deal with them.

what purpose does it serve to the general public to know who they are?

i certainly wouldnt remember their names in 12 or 15 years and wouldnt care anyway.

based on the willingness of sone to talk if taking the law into their hands maybe its best that the law is there giving them anonymity.

let them do their detention and let the authorities offer them opportunities to acknowledge the horrific attack they carried out.

should all criminals be anonymous?

if not, why not, following your logic above?

if not, where and how do you draw the line?

if just in this case, that's unjustifiable.

MadYaker

[Deleted User] wrote: »

should all criminals be anonymous?

if not, why not, following your logic above?

if not, where and how do you draw the line?

if just in this case, that's unjustifiable.

I don’t see what the point would be in this case though. In 12 years everyone will have forgotten anyway and it’ll end up causing the parents hassle.

MadYaker

MadYaker wrote: »

I don’t see what the point would be in this case though. In 12 years everyone will have forgotten anyway and it’ll end up causing the parents hassle.

i can only just point to the questions above tbh.

gimli2112

holliehobbie wrote: »

The lack of help for people with mental health issues in this country is shocking. The case above is completely different to these two boys who don't have mental health issues. That is what is so shocking: that they don't have psychiatric problems.

I feel sure that they do but society has yet to be able to diagnose whatever it is that's wrong with them.

cloudatlas

Glad to see that people on here aren’t just neatly stating that these boys were ‘evil’ or mentally ill but there’s another thread that is saying that ‘rape culture’ isn’t a thing and a disavowing of the view that women are seen as ‘things’ rather than people in a lot of societal discourse and imagery along with there being a lack of empathy in narratives about why these things happen to women.

Wanderer78

gimli2112 wrote:

I feel sure that they do but society has yet to be able to diagnose whatever it is that's wrong with them.

There's clearly something wrong with both of them, the disturbing thing is, it either hasn't been diagnosed or they haven't seen the right person yet

cloudatlas wrote:

Glad to see that people on here aren’t just neatly stating that these boys were ‘evil’ or mentally ill but there’s another thread that is saying that ‘rape culture’ isn’t a thing and a disavowing of the view that women are seen as ‘things’ rather than people in a lot of societal discourse and imagery along with there being a lack of empathy in narratives about why these things happen to women.

Oh there's a few here that think they are indeed evil, and should be executed, give it time, you ll see them

glenfieldman

splinter65 wrote: »

If you actually had a son you’d know that that’s not what you’d do.

I have two

Road-Hog

MadYaker wrote: »

I don’t see what the point would be in this case though. In 12 years everyone will have forgotten anyway and it’ll end up causing the parents hassle.

It’s 26 years since the James Bolger murder and I would say a significant number of people who are old enough remember the names of the guys responsible in this case and James Bolger has never been forgotten.......so I think you are very incorrect with your first sentance

Why do so many people on this site refer to A and B as ’ scrotes’.......what is a scrote does it come from ‘scrotum’, maybe I’m just showing my age

Cork Lass

Rubberchikken wrote: »

i think its necessary for these boys names to remain known only to those who know them, or deal with them.

what purpose does it serve to the general public to know who they are?

i certainly wouldnt remember their names in 12 or 15 years and wouldnt care anyway.

based on the willingness of sone to talk if taking the law into their hands maybe its best that the law is there giving them anonymity.

let them do their detention and let the authorities offer them opportunities to acknowledge the horrific attack they carried out.

The one problem I have with this is that once they are freed they get to carry on an anonymous life. Any future partner of theirs could find themselves in a situation where they are married and have kids with a man who brutally murdered / was an accessory to a brutal murder as a teen and may not even know this. Imagine your daughter finding out this about the husband / partner she has lived with for years. Would you want that - I know I wouldn’t.

AndrewJRenko

Cork Lass wrote: »

The one problem I have with this is that once they are freed they get to carry on an anonymous life. Any future partner of theirs could find themselves in a situation where they are married and have kids with a man who brutally murdered / was an accessory to a brutal murder as a teen and may not even know this. Imagine your daughter finding out this about the husband / partner she has lived with for years. Would you want that - I know I wouldn’t.

The easy solution to this is to make sure that the prospective partner has been Garda vetted - pick a teacher or a nurse or a GAA coach or whatever.

sbsquarepants

Pauliedragon wrote: »

The medical community have been trying to figure that out for donkeys. They still can't agree. Are people born bad? Is it upbringing? or is it a combination?

Whereas anybody with functional eyes can see that some people are just born bad. There's too much bolloxology and an unwillingness these days to call a spade a spade - you can see in some kids from a very early age that they are just destined to be nasty people. You can't tell with some people and unfortunately those tend to be the really bad ones, but the run of the mill scumbags - you can spot that by first or second class generally speaking. For some reason people don't like to admit this and clamber for all manner of stupid reasons / excuses to explain their actions.

Some people are just bad to the core. It's just a fact of life.