Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

splinter65

gimli2112 wrote: »

I feel sure that they do but society has yet to be able to diagnose whatever it is that's wrong with them.

No they’ve been examined by medical professionals who’ve found no psychiatric illness. Nothing to do with society

splinter65

glenfieldman wrote: »

I have two

And you’d leave both of them in a ditch and disappear.

Hal3000

I think the comment from the judge about them getting another chance at a life wasn’t necessary. That would be a very hard comment for me to digest as a parent sitting in that courtroom.

gimli2112

splinter65 wrote: »

No they’ve been examined by medical professionals who’ve found no psychiatric illness. Nothing to do with society

back in the day people were just locked up in the looney bin. I'd be certain there's something wrong with these two we just don't have a name for it yet, that's all I'm saying.

airy fairy

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The easy solution to this is to make sure that the prospective partner has been Garda vetted - pick a teacher or a nurse or a GAA coach or whatever.

You can't just ask for Garda vetting as you apply for a marriage license or apply for a mortgage.
I suspect there'd be no need to apply for a mortgage though, if the state wants to keep these individuals anonymous, I guess their lives will be funded by the state, rent, state payments etc. How could they ever apply for a job without disclosing even their education?
To remain anonymous is ludicrous. I wouldn't want my 14 year old daughter to meet up with one of them in a club in 15 years time. And that's the reality of they are protected. In 15 years time, they'll be back in society with my children.

Not in Kansas

Hal3000 wrote: »

I think the comment from the judge about them getting another chance at a life wasn’t necessary. That would be a very hard comment for me to digest as a parent sitting in that courtroom.

I took that comment as a reference to the future reviews of their sentences, warning them that if they did not avail of the opportunities to work on themselves and strive for rehabilitation their review would not go in their favour.

Caquas

mrjoneill wrote: »

I have no evidence to this only what other have stated. Central to these satanic things is the offering of human life which could be well be part of it. I have no doubt for Boy A the sex assault was big part of it and for Boy B the voyeurism of it all in he stayed to watch to the end.

There’s been a flood of commentary in the Irish media about this horrible crime but the boys’ motives are still a mystery. I don’t believe they can be rehabilitated until they make a proper confession. Top marks to the Garda for getting a conviction against Boy A, the “mastermind” of this crime.

Everyone is talking about the porn found on Boy A’s phone but no-one considers whether anything similar was on Boy B’s phone. The Garda never recovered significant data from Boy B’s phone because he “lost” two smart phones. Porn may well de-sensitise people but has it ever been a motive for murder.

Why is it only the British media that mention the Satanic link? This is the only obvious motive but a curtain of silence has fallen.

smelly sock

Caquas wrote: »

There’s been a flood of commentary in the Irish media about this horrible crime but the boys’ motives are still a mystery. I don’t believe they can be rehabilitated until they make a proper confession. Top marks to the Garda for getting a conviction against Boy A, the “mastermind” of this crime.

Everyone is talking about the porn found on Boy A’s phone but no-one considers whether anything similar was on Boy B’s phone. The Garda never recovered significant data from Boy B’s phone because he “lost” two smart phones. Porn may well de-sensitise people but has it ever been a motive for murder.

Why is it only the British media that mention the Satanic link? This is the only obvious motive but a curtain of silence has fallen.

I think the boys are evil to the core. I think there is obviously serious psychological issues at play also and they should be committed to the central mental hospital for the rest of their natural live. No way can anyway be right in the head to commit a premeditated crime like that.

Their motive was to fulfil their evil fantasies and they will be free with long lives ahead of them to carry this out again with full anonymity.

smelly sock

airy fairy wrote: »

You can't just ask for Garda vetting as you apply for a marriage license or apply for a mortgage.
I suspect there'd be no need to apply for a mortgage though, if the state wants to keep these individuals anonymous, I guess their lives will be funded by the state, rent, state payments etc. How could they ever apply for a job without disclosing even their education?
To remain anonymous is ludicrous. I wouldn't want my 14 year old daughter to meet up with one of them in a club in 15 years time. And that's the reality of they are protected. In 15 years time, they'll be back in society with my children.

No. Their lives won't be funded by the state after they are released. That is the reason for the anonymity really. If their names were released they would have to be given new identity's and setup with a new life. The state has no onus to do this now. Plenty of jobs available without having to go into education, especially primary and secondary education. I can't remember the last time I looked at someone's CV and checked the secondary education on it.

retro:electro

smelly sock wrote: »

I think the boys are evil to the core. I think there is obviously serious psychological issues at play also and they should be committed to the central mental hospital for the rest of their natural live. No way can anyway be right in the head to commit a premeditated crime like that.
.

The judge ordered psychological reports on both of the boys, hence the delay in sentencing; and it was found that neither of the boys are suffering from any kind of mental illness. Which makes a crime of such gravity all the more unfathomable, but sometimes normal functioning people are capable of doing terrible things.

airy fairy

smelly sock wrote: »

No. Their lives won't be funded by the state after they are released. That is the reason for the anonymity really. If their names were released they would have to be given new identity's and setup with a new life. The state has no onus to do this now. Plenty of jobs available without having to go into education, especially primary and secondary education. I can't remember the last time I looked at someone's CV and checked the secondary education on it.

But they can't start to live life independently without the state funding them surely? Do you think they just won't be named in public and then start life using their real name in some other part of the country? Won't their records, criminal and sex offence be disclosed then? Unless they are given new identities they will never even get employment.

tuxy

retro:electro wrote: »

The judge ordered psychological reports on both of the boys, hence the delay in sentencing; and it was found that neither of the boys are suffering from any kind of mental illness. Which makes a crime of such gravity all the more unfathomable, but sometimes normal functioning people are capable of doing terrible things.

I've found it's best not state this because although it is true most people do not want to admit it and will never agree.

airy fairy wrote: »

But they can't start to live life independently without the state funding them surely? Do you think they just won't be named in public and then start life using their real name in some other part of the country? Won't their records, criminal and sex offence be disclosed then? Unless they are given new identities they will never even get employment.

People finding out about it is ok, it may be assessed if that puts them in danger of being attacked and they could get new identities based on that.

Letwin_Larry

retro:electro wrote: »

The judge ordered psychological reports on both of the boys, hence the delay in sentencing; and it was found that neither of the boys are suffering from any kind of mental illness. Which makes a crime of such gravity all the more unfathomable, but sometimes normal functioning people are capable of doing terrible things.

no they are not mentally ill imo.
psychopathy is not a mental illness.

they ARE evil, scheming, manipulative, twisted, little $hitbags who lack empathy.
i have no doubt they got a kick/thrill out of this terrible crime, and in all probability will re offend given the opportunity.

the sentences handed down are far too lenient.

AndrewJRenko

airy fairy wrote: »

You can't just ask for Garda vetting as you apply for a marriage license or apply for a mortgage.
I suspect there'd be no need to apply for a mortgage though, if the state wants to keep these individuals anonymous, I guess their lives will be funded by the state, rent, state payments etc. How could they ever apply for a job without disclosing even their education?
To remain anonymous is ludicrous. I wouldn't want my 14 year old daughter to meet up with one of them in a club in 15 years time. And that's the reality of they are protected. In 15 years time, they'll be back in society with my children.

Go back and read my post.

Tell your daughter to limit her relationships to people that HAVE been Garda vetted - loads of options out there.

tuxy

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Go back and read my post.

Tell your daughter to limit her relationships to people that HAVE been Garda vetted - loads of options out there.

I'm unfamiliar on how this works. Can you get people you wish to date Garda vetted or do you mean only date people who have a job that requires vetting?
If the boys had been 18 before committing this crime would they have been safe to date once vetted?

AndrewJRenko

tuxy wrote: »

I'm unfamiliar on how this works. Can you get people you wish to date Garda vetted or do you mean only date people who have a job that requires vetting?
If the boys had been 18 before committing this crime would they have been safe to date once vetted?

Only date people who have been Garda vetted - whether for their job or because they coach GAA or they're a scout leader or whatever

smelly sock

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Only date people who have been Garda vetted - whether for their job or because they coach GAA or they're a scout leader or whatever

Garda vetting will only disclose criminal convictions. It won't show if your potential new partner likes to cross dress etc.

martingriff

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Only date people who have been Garda vetted - whether for their job or because they coach GAA or they're a scout leader or whatever

Or you could go about your life not thinking everyone is an evil psychopath and fall in love with someone

tuxy

smelly sock wrote: »

Garda vetting will only disclose criminal convictions. It won't show if your potential new partner likes to cross dress etc.

Are cross dressers usually potential violent criminals?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Only date people who have been Garda vetted - whether for their job or because they coach GAA or they're a scout leader or whatever

When you came up with this first I thought, yeah not a bad joke. As you keep repeating it I'm thinking you are serious.
Tell your 20/30 something year old daughter she can only date people who are Garda vetted???

You don't have daughters do you?

Suckit

Been talking about them all morning on RTE on Sean O'Rourke. As the story was overshadowed a lot yesterday by the death of Gay Byrne.

martingriff

Deleted User wrote: »

When you came up with this first I thought, yeah not a bad joke. As you keep repeating it I'm thinking you are serious.
Tell your 20/30 something year old daughter she can only date people who are Garda vetted???

You don't have daughters do you?

Why just daughters why not sons also

tuxy

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

the sentences handed down are far too lenient.

If you were the judge what sentence would you give that would limit a successful appeal?
Take into consideration how horrific an appeal process could be for the Kriegel's and the fact it risks them serving even less time than the actual sentence that was given.

tuxy

martingriff wrote: »

Why just daughters why not sons also

Only men can commit violent and sexual crimes.

sbsquarepants

Deleted User wrote: »

You don't have daughters do you?

It's either that or he's just gotten vetted and reckons it's a good pick up line!:D

All joking aside i reckon that's why anonymity is a bad idea though. The state shouldn't be facilitating scumbags like this in pulling the wool over innocent peoples eyes. It's morally wrong by any metric i can think of.

tuxy

tuxy wrote: »

If you were the judge what sentence would you give that would limit a successful appeal?
Take into consideration how horrific an appeal process could be for the Kriegel's and the fact it risks them serving even less time than the actual sentence that was given.

its a fair point but i think on this thread people have to be allowed to be understood as talking not only in terms of what is practically or procedurally achievable given current status quo and what they think should be the case.

the laws and norms of a society are never fixed and final and public discourse around hard cases like this shouldnt be shut down because "thats not how it currently works" (not saying youve done this btw, but plenty on thread have).

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

When you came up with this first I thought, yeah not a bad joke. As you keep repeating it I'm thinking you are serious.
Tell your 20/30 something year old daughter she can only date people who are Garda vetted???

You don't have daughters do you?

I'm not the one with the problem.

I'm giving those who have a problem an easy solution.

tuxy

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's either that or he's just gotten vetted and reckons it's a good pick up line!:D

All joking aside i reckon that's why anonymity is a bad idea though. The state shouldn't be facilitating scumbags like this in pulling the wool over innocent peoples eyes. It's morally wrong by any metric i can think of.

I was unable to be online yesterday and there has been so many posts. Apologies if I'm asking questions already answered.
Is it impossible for them to be named at 18 years old?

Also the state has a duty of care for all citizens and I don't think it's possible for this to be wavered. If there is risk to their well being then they are either never named, given new identities or round the clock Garda protection after release. They should definitely be named at some point if it does not put them in danger of attack.

sbsquarepants

tuxy wrote: »

Also the state has a duty of care for all citizens and I don't think it's possible for this to be wavered. If there is risk to their well being then they are either never named, given new identities or round the clock Garda protection after release. They should definitely be named at some point if it does not put them in danger of attack.

That's the crux of it alright. I don't think they'll ever be named, officially at least.

But i think the way it should work is that society at large should be prioritised over the rights of criminals. I personally feel that it's way more important that innocent people be protected from sickos than sickos be protected from retribution.

At the end of the day, they brought the situation on themselves, some hypothetical future girlfriend or kids didn't. I'm not saying the state should put a target on their backs, but if by protecting it's innocent citizens it endangers people like these, then so be it. That's a trade off i'm happy to make.

splinter65

gimli2112 wrote: »

back in the day people were just locked up in the looney bin. I'd be certain there's something wrong with these two we just don't have a name for it yet, that's all I'm saying.

I’ll rely on the medical professionals all the same. In my own opinion these boys are just a by product of the throwaway disposable world we live in now. I think it’s as simple as that. Boy A has a lust for murderous violence and boy b was keen too and they came to the conclusion that ana was disposable and wouldn’t be missed. I’d say they’re still puzzled about that.