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Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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    #7112
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users Posts: 8,400 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    171170 wrote: »
    Can a child actually decide to appeal a sentence or must a parent/guardian do it on their behalf?

    I'd imagine it's down to the person convicted.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



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    #7113
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Faugheen wrote: »
    No doubt being pushed by his father.

    Is this the same father who did not attend court for sentencing because they had a falling out?


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    #7114
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users Posts: 8,400 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    tuxy wrote: »
    Is this the same father who did not attend court for sentencing because they had a falling out?

    No

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



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    #7115
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    No

    So boy B has more than one father? :confused:

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/boy-b-who-was-found-guilty-of-murder-maintains-innocence-38644522.html
    Mr Colgan also said that Boy B's father was not in court, saying there had been a falling-out between the pair


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    #7116
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users Posts: 8,400 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    tuxy wrote: »
    So boy B has more than one father? :confused:

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/boy-b-who-was-found-guilty-of-murder-maintains-innocence-38644522.html

    Irish Times:
    Boy A was accompanied to court by his parents and both grandfathers. Boy B’s father, who had been absent from the sentencing hearing on October 29th, was back in court, along with the boy’s mother and two other family members.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/boy-a-and-boy-b-rarely-looked-up-and-never-at-one-another-1.4073601

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



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    #7117
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    171170 wrote: »
    Huzza! Some taxpayer-funded barristers are going to have a very happy Christmas. :mad:

    Those private school fees / bmw x5 / little place in france / mistresses aren't getting any cheaper.


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    #7118
    6am7f9zxrsjvnb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 430 ✭✭6am7f9zxrsjvnb


    The reality is that if Boy B had refused to cooperate with police there would be no evidence to charge him with murder...

    Did he lure the victim to the scene? Yes
    Did he know what Boy A would ultimately do ? ...no one here can say.

    In no way is his crime comparable to that of Boy A . His appeal was inevitable.I’d say he’ll be out in two years.


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    #7119
    Vicarious Function
    Registered Users Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Vicarious Function


    Faugheen wrote: »
    No doubt being pushed by his father.

    Boy A told him he wanted to kill her, he lured her miles away from her home on false pretences and then he managed to place himself at the scene while it was all unfolding.

    He must be extremely naive, or think everyone came down in the last shower.

    Added to that he told so much lies to the Police. Far as we know, he still has not told the true story in full. Can we ever berlieve anything he says?


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    #7120
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Reed Panicky Swimmer wrote: »
    The reality is that if Boy B had refused to cooperate with police there would be no evidence to charge him with murder...

    Did he lure the victim to the scene? Yes
    Did he know what Boy A would ultimately do ? ...no one here can say.

    In no way is his crime comparable to that of Boy A . His appeal was inevitable.I’d say he’ll be out in two years.

    Bollocks. Listen to Frank Greaney’s podcast series where they went through Boy B’s evidence. He set the whole thing up. I was convinced of it at the time and I was even more convinced when I listened to that podcast.

    With every lie he told, he always pinned it back to Boy A while dissolving himself of anything, but yet he knew more than he let on the whole time.

    He knew full well what was going on and the fact he lied over and over and over again is proof of this.

    He was told by Boy A that he wanted to kill her, so he didn’t think much of it and then lured her miles away from her own house to a derelict building? What did he think was going to happen?

    The fact anyone here thinks he might not have known is baffling.


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    #7121
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    What's the name of that podcast, please?


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    #7122
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    What's the name of that podcast, please?

    https://open.spotify.com/show/423eOUseAmEqJNYTKFiVOx?si=AbEEpcaVQH6X2vEgig5Vww

    It’s on the Newstalk website somewhere too I’d imagine


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    #7123
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Faugheen wrote: »
    https://open.spotify.com/show/423eOUseAmEqJNYTKFiVOx?si=AbEEpcaVQH6X2vEgig5Vww

    It’s on the Newstalk website somewhere too I’d imagine

    It’s this the one in three parts?

    If so it’s essential listening.
    Three journalists who covered the whole trial in court.


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    #7124
    dublincelt
    Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭dublincelt


    The judge should have stated that any appeals would result in the loss of right to anonymity. Would be interesting to see if he would appeal then, somehow I think not...


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    #7125
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    dublincelt wrote: »
    The judge should have stated that any appeals would result in the loss of right to anonymity. Would be interesting to see if he would appeal then, somehow I think not...

    Is there a precedent for that? It sounds like something that could have been used to leverage a verdict of mistrial.


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    #7126
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,364 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    dublincelt wrote: »
    The judge should have stated that any appeals would result in the loss of right to anonymity. Would be interesting to see if he would appeal then, somehow I think not...

    Judges don’t make threats like this, we mightn’t like it but they are both fully entitled to make appeals and they can’t be treated any differently to any other criminals.


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    #7127
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,319 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    dublincelt wrote: »
    The judge should have stated that any appeals would result in the loss of right to anonymity..

    What a stupid suggestion.


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    #7128
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    What a stupid suggestion.

    You will find such things are the norm when it comes to legal matters in threads on emotional subjects.


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    #7129
    White lighting
    Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭White lighting


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    I hope it gets increased


    Hes appealing the conviction and not the sentence so cant get it increased. he is more than entitled to appeal it too. I am surprised it took so long to be honest. Was very surprised he was found guilty in the first place.


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    #7130
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    White lighting wrote: »
    Hes appealing the conviction and not the sentence so cant get it increased. he is more than entitled to appeal it too. I am surprised it took so long to be honest. Was very surprised he was found guilty in the first place.

    Lol.

    Have you read anything about the case? Or are you one of those ‘there’s no physical evidence’ types?

    He’s entitled to appeal, just he’s being extremely naive.


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    #7131
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 29,376 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Lol.

    Have you read anything about the case? Or are you one of those ‘there’s no physical evidence’ types?

    He’s entitled to appeal, just he’s being extremely naive.
    I'd imagine that his legal counsel has access to ALL the evidence (as opposed to what's been reported in the media), and on that basis thinks that an appeal has a chance of succeeding.


    Boy B's naivety or otherwise has very little to do with it.


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    #7132
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    Why can't this scum (Boy A and Boy B) be named and shamed?


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    #7133
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    I'd imagine that his legal counsel has access to ALL the evidence (as opposed to what's been reported in the media), and on that basis thinks that an appeal has a chance of succeeding.


    Boy B's naivety or otherwise has very little to do with it.

    Just like Joe O’Reilly’s counsel and that didn’t do him much good.

    His naivety has a lot to do with it. He’s guilty and he still thinks he can get away with it.


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    #7134
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,465 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Emme wrote: »
    Why can't this scum (Boy A and Boy B) be named and shamed?

    they are children. Murdering children but still children.


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    #7135
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users Posts: 8,400 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    I'd imagine that his legal counsel has access to ALL the evidence (as opposed to what's been reported in the media), and on that basis thinks that an appeal has a chance of succeeding.


    Boy B's naivety or otherwise has very little to do with it.

    If his legal counsel told him to shut up? and he listened to them, he'd be home now looking forward to his turkey on Christmas Day.

    But no, he was smarter than his legal counsel. smarter than the jury & smarter than the judge (not). The state had no real evidence against him, he willingly supplied it all to them, thankfully.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



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    #7136
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    If his legal counsel told him to shut up? and he listened to them, he'd be home now looking forward to his turkey on Christmas Day.

    But no, he was smarter than his legal counsel. smarter than the jury & smarter than the judge (not). The state had no real evidence against him, he willingly supplied it all to them, thankfully.

    What did he supply or say off the script?


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    #7137
    Bigbagofcans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Bigbagofcans


    Emme wrote: »
    Why can't this scum (Boy A and Boy B) be named and shamed?

    Plenty of people know their names and have seen their photos.

    Their families would be targeted by vigilantes if they were publicly named and shamed.


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    #7138
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    bigpink wrote: »
    What did he supply or say off the script?

    He placed himself at the scene, and told them Boy A said he wanted to kill her.

    All this after initially saying he left her at the park.


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    #7139
    juno10353
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭juno10353


    If appeal is allowed does that mean a complete retrial of Boy B. Does he have to give new evidence as grounds for appeal?8


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    #7140
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users Posts: 8,400 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    juno10353 wrote: »
    If appeal is allowed does that mean a complete retrial of Boy B. Does he have to give new evidence as grounds for appeal?8

    An appeal is not a re-trial.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



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    #7141
    juno10353
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭juno10353


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    An appeal is not a re-trial.

    Boy B has appealed the guilty verdict. I believe that to do so there has to be specific grounds eg judge giving wrong advice to jury, new evidence, etc. If the grounds are accepted then the appeal can go forward. What happens then?


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