Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

walshb

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Wonder if people would still be prasining him if it turned out to be Boy B?

Probably. Considering boy B was also convicted of Ana’s murder.

Boy B brought her to her death!!!

Esse85

Sawduck wrote: »

He is one seriously messed up kid, hopefully he never gets out, he would be a serious danger to young girls

And animals.

Esse85

Sawduck wrote: »

He is one seriously messed up kid, hopefully he never gets out, he would be a serious danger to young girls

Double post.

Vicarious Function

There are several other murderers in Oberstown who are aged 17 plus who would be older and presumably larger and stronger than boy A who is now 14. So! - well capable of giving him a beating up.

shaveAbullock

If this continues he will be in protective custody. I take it that would be far more difficult for him, wouldn't it?

Rows Grower

Boy B has applied to exceed legal aid limits to help his appeal.

https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/boy-b-makes-unusual-bid-to-get-expert-report-for-ana-murder-appeal-39403032.html

JustAThought

Rows Grower wrote: »

Boy B has applied to exceed legal aid limits to help his appeal.

https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/boy-b-makes-unusual-bid-to-get-expert-report-for-ana-murder-appeal-39403032.html

I didn’t know they had limits. How much are they??
As regards his father if he is such an upstanding member of society no doubt he can mortgage his house or sell his car to facilitate his murdering criminal childs needs.

Judge here has said No and to work within the budget - lets see how that plays out. I’m revolted by this whole case - people in Lucan/Leixlip may know who these predators are and be able to protect their daughters and children in 5 or 6 years when these vile monsters are let out but what about the reat of us.

So much for protection of law abiding citizens and their children.

splinter65

JustAThought wrote: »

I didn’t know they had limits. How much are they??
As regards his father if he is such an upstanding member of society no doubt he can mortgage his house or sell his car to facilitate his murdering criminal childs needs.

Judge here has said No and to work within the budget - lets see how that plays out. I’m revolted by this whole case - people in Lucan/Leixlip may know who these predators are and be able to protect their daughters and children in 5 or 6 years when these vile monsters are let out but what about the reat of us.

So much for protection of law abiding citizens and their children.

I wouldn’t imagine even mortgaging the house and selling the car would go anywhere even close to touching his legal fees, so that will be pointless.
His defence probably want to bring specialist in something from some far flung place at huge expense and it won’t be covered by the standard allowance for an appeal.
I would actually prefer if he did allow it because if this appeal fails then they will complain that it was because they were financially restricted in what they could do.
Everyone should remember that in order for our precious legal system to work properly and justice to be seen to be done, that Boy Bs defence team should put forward their best case for it to be examined.

salmocab

Would a bank give someone a remortgage to pay legal bills for your son? Certainly not if he’s not earning enough to make repayments for the life of the mortgage. I get that some have made the father scumbag number one but nobody really knows anything about his circumstances and ability to pay legal fees.

JustAThought

splinter65 wrote: »

I wouldn’t imagine even mortgaging the house and selling the car would go anywhere even close to touching his legal fees, so that will be pointless.
His defence probably want to bring specialist in something from some far flung place at huge expense and it won’t be covered by the standard allowance for an appeal.
I would actually prefer if he did allow it because if this appeal fails then they will complain that it was because they were financially restricted in what they could do.
Everyone should remember that in order for our precious legal system to work properly and justice to be seen to be done, that Boy Bs defence team should put forward their best case for it to be examined.

This promotion for unlimited spending of taxpayer money was probably brought to you by your local support criminal scumbag industry. It is exactly what is wrong with this country - overindulgence and absolute excess and waste of hrdworking peoples money in the name of supporting convicted criminal scum and their families in the name of ‘justice’. Where is the justice for the victims or protection for the innocent.

Nowhere.

ohnonotgmail

for anyone interested here are the fees paid by legal aid. the fees for expert witnesses are in Appendix 4 on page 30
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/PROCEDURES%20GOVERNING%20THE%20PAYMENT%20OF%20CRIMINAL%20LEGAL%20AID%20FEES.pdf/Files/PROCEDURES%20GOVERNING%20THE%20PAYMENT%20OF%20CRIMINAL%20LEGAL%20AID%20FEES.pdf

Caquas

There is an important legal issue here. The defence wanted the psychologist to give evidence to the effect that the lies Boy B told the Gardai were not evidence of his guilt because he was suffering from PTSD having witnessed the attack on Ana.

Common sense would say this is tantamount to exonerating the criminal because his crime had traumatised him but that is not the legal issue. Instead the focus will be on the nature of expert evidence. Witnesses are only allowed to state their opinions on issues on which they are experts but even experts are not allowed to make judgements about the issue which the court must decide. So a psychologist could say that, in his opinion, Boy B was suffering from PTSD but not that the jury should disregard his false statements to Gardai (that would be tantamount to saying he must be acquitted).

No way is his father going to foot the psychologist’s bill. If the court decides the bill is not excessive, we will all pay.

JustAThought

We have already paid - in fear, in lost innocence, in watching the horror of this families trauma unfold, in years of taxbills for the vermin murdering teenagers medical bills, food and care,social welfare costs and incarceration.

God help the Kriegel family -not only have the had the horror of their beloved daughters murder but now this onslaught of endless sympathy and financial support for these convicted child killers and their rights - it should be stopped. Just like the sympathy for the alzheimers patient rapist.

Galwayguy35

What happens these two when they eventually get out?

Will they be monitored for the rest of their lives or given new identities and be let move around freely?

political analyst

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What happens these two when they eventually get out?

Will they be monitored for the rest of their lives or given new identities and be let move around freely?

Boy A will be not just on parole but also on the register because he was also convicted of sexually assaulting the victim.

Boy B is guilty of murder on the principle of joint enterprise. Given that he had no sexual contact with the victim, the risk of recidivism in his case is negligible.

political analyst

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Wonder if people would still be prasining him if it turned out to be Boy B?

Presumably, A and B have been kept away from each other since they were placed in custody. After all, Thompson and Venables were forbidden from contacting each other as one of the conditions of their release in 2001.

political analyst

White lighting wrote: »

Dont think thats correct. Its always been the case if you appealed your sentence you ran the risk of it been increased. Was always a deterrent to stop every Tom Dick and Harry appealing every sentence the got handed down.

Only if you sought a trial in the Circuit Court trial for an offence for which you were convicted in the District Court. I haven't heard of a sentence being increased after an appeal on the grounds of undue severity being dismissed in the Republic.

joeguevara

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What happens these two when they eventually get out?

Will they be monitored for the rest of their lives or given new identities and be let move around freely?

For probably the best real life precedent for your question, have a read of Jon venables (i think) in the James Bolger case. There should be ongoing monitoring etc and rescinded licence if certain breaches.

joeguevara

political analyst wrote: »

Only if you sought a trial in the Circuit Court trial for an offence for which you were convicted in the District Court. I haven't heard of a sentence being increased after an appeal on the grounds of undue severity being dismissed in the Republic.

There are cases in the court of criminal appeal where a person appealed their sentence and had it increased.

If you don’t appeal sentence but a point of law, then sentence usually is prohibited from being increased.

political analyst

joeguevara wrote: »

There are cases in the court of criminal appeal where a person appealed their sentence and had it increased.

When?

joeguevara

political analyst wrote: »

When?

It’s common enough.

I haven’t read the article so not sure if leniency was appealed by DPP but here is some examples

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/court-of-appeal-increases-sentences-for-high-end-assault-cases-1.4180069

It’s quite searchable and court stats should show annual examples.

Tough week at work so not in mood to search but will do tomorrow.

Suckit

The guy who slashed the girls throat in Dun Laoghaire a few years ago had his review for release increased. His sentence stayed the same, but he was due for review in 5 years, but now it will be 7.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/stephanie-ng-case-boy-who-attempted-murder-has-review-pushed-back-1.4317035
https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/teen-slasher-must-wait-an-extra-2-years-before-sentence-gets-reviewed-39408909.html

Gadgetman496

political analyst wrote: »

Boy A will be not just on parole but also on the register because he was also convicted of sexually assaulting the victim.

What register? There is no sex offender register in Ireland.

Offenders get put on the Pulse system which is not accessible to the general public, therefore the public have no way of knowing if an individual is recorded or not.

In this case we all know because of the coverage the case got, but, what about years down the line when offenders are released & given new identities? Our children will have no idea who they are.

While the term Sex Offenders Register is commonly used in Ireland, there is in fact no such register and the term is not included in any section of the Sex Offenders Act 2001. If a person is convicted of a sexual offence under the Act, a Certificate of Conviction is issued from the relevant court to the Sex Offender Management and Intelligence Unit (SOMIU) and the convicted sex offender is recorded on the Garda PULSE (Police Using Leading Systems Effectively) system. The SOMIU maintains a record of everyone in the State who has been convicted of certain sexual offences and has obligations under the Sex Offenders Act 2001. A Garda Inspector in each division is nominated to manage the risk of sex offenders in their community, ensure sex offenders comply with the Act and report information to SOMIU.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_trial/sex_offenders_register.html

Quantum Erasure

^sounds very like a register of sex offenders to me....

Liamo57

Its like this. I had 2 lovely parents, we had very little but we were decent. Those kids were evil, their parents were dysfuntional and they are responsible for their kids behaviour. In my opinion, they both should be hung. They will never be any use to society.

political analyst

joeguevara wrote: »

It’s common enough.

I haven’t read the article so not sure if leniency was appealed by DPP but here is some examples

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/court-of-appeal-increases-sentences-for-high-end-assault-cases-1.4180069

It’s quite searchable and court stats should show annual examples.

Tough week at work so not in mood to search but will do tomorrow.

That's not what I meant.

None of the defendants mentioned in that article appealed their sentences on grounds of undue severity.

political analyst

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

What register? There is no sex offender register in Ireland.

Offenders get put on the Pulse system which is not accessible to the general public, therefore the public have no way of knowing if an individual is recorded or not.

In this case we all know because of the coverage the case got, but, what about years down the line when offenders are released & given new identities? Our children will have no idea who they are.



https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_trial/sex_offenders_register.html

What you quoted from that site is what I meant. Technically, it might not be a sex offenders register but the principle is the same as if it was a register.

joeguevara

political analyst wrote: »

That's not what I meant.

None of the defendants mentioned in that article appealed their sentences on grounds of undue severity.

Think we may have had crossed wires.

Gadgetman496

Woman charged over social media images in Kriégel case

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/1022/1173208-rebecca-ryan-court/

Ashbourne hoop

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Woman charged over social media images in Kriégel case

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/1022/1173208-rebecca-ryan-court/

Good enough for her.