Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Fakediamond wrote: »

No, there was no forensics linking boy B to the crime scene. And if I remember correctly, cctv images after the event saw him passing some minutes before boy A so he may have left the scene before the murder.

I think the difficulty for those of us not in the courtroom, hearing all of the evidence, can only speculate as to the level of boy B’s involvement. Boy A on the other hand...it’s terrifying to think what he is capable of.

The Irish times piece is long but great journalism. Boy A had said that he wanted to kill someone weeks ago to Boy B. That and all the lies were enough to justify the murder charge. Boy knew what he was doing when he brought Ana to that place.
To me accessory before or after the fact (if Ireland has those) , and obstruction of justice would have been better charges.

Larbre34

bobbyss wrote: »

In one of the papers today it said after the verdict was given one of the parents shouted out at the court 'scumbags ... priicks'.

Boy Bs father shouted at the Gardaí present. Presumably he felt because B had given up A (eventually) and the evidence was that he didn't carry out any physical parts of the attack that he shouldn't go down for murder.

Well he did as he should have.

Mrsmum

smurgen wrote: »

If just find it incredibly sad reading how alone she was. If you have kids please tell them to look out for the less fortunate. We should be taking positives out of this case where possible.

It's funny isn't it though that adults rarely do what we ask kids to do. Maybe if kids saw more of it, they might do it. I mean let everyone of us look at our friends, normally they have lots in common with us and rarely are we hanging out with people just to be nice to them or to mind them. Now we don't usually bully others although anyone a little different can find their work or social life fairly lonely. Perhaps it's leading by example we should be doing.

Boggles

shesty wrote: »

True.The point still stands though.He could have stopped it and didn't.And then lied about it.

Or he could have been killed with her.

Boy A was a big lad apparently and given the evidence a massive lunatic.

Homemade murder mask and knee pads?

Torture movies and animal porn?

He tore into her like an absolute deranged animal, she had 60 different wounds. Her clothes were torn to pieces.

Yeah, I don't think it is a stretch to suggest Boy B may have been scared of him.

Hoboo

shesty wrote: »

True.The point still stands though.He could have stopped it and didn't.And then lied about it.

Boy B who's into Lego and transformers stops boy A who's into aggressive hardcore porn, hockey masks, and knowingly wants to harm people?

Sounds like a more gentle/weaker boy who's afraid of his life of a little psycho.

Can see boy B appealing and walking.

Zero evidence he was at the scene when she was actually killed, and other than hanging himself by saying boy A told him he wanted to kill Anna, surely thats not enough? Couldnt count on two hands the amount of times I heard blah blah wanted to kill someone when I was a kid, but they never went and did it!

tayto lover

Suckit wrote: »

I don't think Boy B did run away. I think that was one of his lies.

To me that makes a huge difference. I think Boy B gave boy A the masking tape for a reason.
I think Boy B got off on it, and I think the Garda investigating think that too.

Exactly as I see it. Boy B was the manipulator, not the other way around as many see it. Holding hands with mammy, asking for Lego and all that crap. What an actor.

chicorytip

Blazer wrote:

There's been sociopaths in existence long before the internet ever existed. When 2 ten year old boys kidnapped 2 year old Jamie Bulger the internet didn't really exist back then. As for Boy B being only a small part of it the same was said about John Venables at the time...that it was the older boy who put it upto him. When in fact as it now turns out it was him all along. Boy B's legal team played a blinder really...poor lad corrupted by boy A when both are equally to blame. Guaranteed that little prick will be out in a few years.

The "Child's Play" video existed back then which is where they viewed the scenario they would subsequently recreate. Parental neglect and lack of proper supervision was what ultimately led to those children becoming killers. When there is a lack of authority figures in a child's upbringing then they will simply do whatever they want.

Gimme A Pound

People who enjoy extreme porn should not take it personally when concern is expressed regarding the exposure of young teens to it.

El_Bee wrote: »

I think the fact she was so isolated and victimized contributed to her being singled out by the two.

Like someone else said, she was eventually dehumanised.

RoboKlopp wrote: »

There's porn and then there's child and animal porn. Bit of a difference tbf.

There are obviously loads of different types of adult porn, some of which is very extreme, depicting violence and degradation. That's what is being referred to.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

'You bunch of scumbags...Innocent boy':

Boy B's father

Doesn't sound like a very middle class reaction to me

Why not?

Calltocall

Twisted little bastards, the auld fella’s outburst at the end summed it all up, scumbags he shouted at the court, the only scumbags in this case are his son and his accomplice, but sure go ahead live in denial and pretend they’re angels.

That’s a big part of the problem, parents not recognising when their kids are wrong and not disciplining them instead defending them not my johnny etc etc and in the process creating a much bigger problem because when the kids are out in the big bad world society won’t be as forgiving as their parents, they both got exactly what they deserved.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Boggles wrote: »

Or he could have been killed with her.

Boy A was a big lad apparently and given the evidence a massive lunatic.

Homemade murder mask and knee pads?

Torture movies and animal porn?

He tore into her like an absolute deranged animal, she had 60 different wounds. Her clothes were torn to pieces.

Yeah, I don't think it is a stretch to suggest Boy B may have been scared of him.

No need to be scared the next day. The explanation from the defense as to why he kept lying (PTSD and fear of Boy A) hold no water.

Feets

tigger123 wrote: »

Is there a source? Genuine question.

Nope. People talk locally.

iamwhoiam

Hoboo wrote: »

Boy B who's into Lego and transformers stops boy A who's into aggressive hardcore porn, hockey masks, and knowingly wants to harm people?

Sounds like a more gentle/weaker boy who's afraid of his life of a little psycho.

Can see boy B appealing and walking.

Zero evidence he was at the scene when she was actually killed, and other than hanging himself by saying boy A told him he wanted to kill Anna, surely thats not enough? Couldnt count on two hands the amount of times I heard blah blah wanted to kill someone when I was a kid, but they never went and did it!

He told it himself that he was there when she gasped and then went quiet . His words to a counsellor

Stop moaning ffs

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Where was that quoted that he said that ?

I was using it as an expression often used not what was said.

<snip>
No video footage even shown of those interviews as he would rarely comment or say no comment / I don’t know.

Seems schooled.


Him and the father being found on a walk together though by gardai. That stinks

STB.

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The Irish times piece is long but great journalism. Boy A had said that he wanted to kill someone weeks ago to Boy B. That and all the lies were enough to justify the murder charge. Boy knew what he was doing when he brought Ana to that place.
To me accessory before or after the fact (if Ireland has those) , and obstruction of justice would have been better charges.

Sounds familiar


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-26-jailed-for-life-as-a-teenager-for-hammering-boy-to-death-to-be-released-in-less-than-two-years-30580270.html

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-can-relax-now-and-not-be-nervous-that-i-would-see-him-mum-after-sons-killer-banned-from-town-35711934.html

You wont hear these kids names until they apply to have their sentences reviewed when they are adults.

It is highly unlikely either will actually serve "life".

Nerdlingr

Hoboo wrote: »

Zero evidence he was at the scene when she was actually killed

His own words put him at the scene when she is being killed. That is all the evidence you need of him being there.
He hung himself out to dry by talking in the interview, and fair f*cks to the Garda for getting him to sing. Trojan work. I said it before but I'm surprised his solicitor didn't employ a "no comment" to every single question. He would have got away with it if he didn't answer anything.

iamwhoiam

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I was using it as an expression often used not what was said.

<snip>
No video footage even shown of those interviews as he would rarely comment or say no comment / I don’t know.

Seems schooled.


Him and the father being found on a walk together though by gardai. That stinks

You seriously need to read the reports and get your facts right .

ctrl-alt-delete

This case is just horrendous, absolutely horrendous.

I've been wondering what might happen to the derelict house. I'd love to see it turned into a prison for those convicted, more than likely it will be torn down - pity it can't be done with them inside.

fryup

fryup wrote: »

why was she bullied?? because she was deemed as different?

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

Radio mentioned kids knew she was a russian adoptee, and way taller than the rest of her age ... Teens dont need much of an excuse to bully tbh

in the multi cultural ireland of 2019

surely there must be more to it than that?? in the news it mentioned she was slightly deaf

alchemist33

Calltocall wrote: »

Twisted little bastards, the auld fella’s outburst at the end summed it all up, scumbags he shouted at the court, the only scumbags in this case are his son and his accomplice, but sure go ahead live in denial and pretend they’re angels.

That’s a big part of the problem, parents not recognising when their kids are wrong and not disciplining them instead defending them not my johnny etc etc and in the process creating a much bigger problem because when the kids are out in the big bad world society won’t be as forgiving as their parents, they both got exactly what they deserved.

I'd heard the father stormed out but didn't hear about the "scumbag" bit. If true, any possibility I'd have any sympathy for the family has gone. You're right, that was the environment to grow a psychopath.

This is it

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

<post deleted>

You're coming out with some amount of nonsense in this thread, staggering.

Gimme A Pound

fryup wrote: »

in the multi cultural ireland of 2019

surely there must be more to it than that?? in the news it mentioned she was slightly deaf

There are loads of articles giving more detail.

Nerdlingr

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I was using it as an expression often used not what was said.

<snip>
No video footage even shown of those interviews as he would rarely comment or say no comment / I don’t know.

Seems schooled.


Him and the father being found on a walk together though by gardai. That stinks

Conjecture your honor!

tigger123

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I was using it as an expression often used not what was said.

<snip>
No video footage even shown of those interviews as he would rarely comment or say no comment / I don’t know.

Seems schooled.


Him and the father being found on a walk together though by gardai. That stinks

You should think of applying for the force yourself with that kind of Detective work.

anewme

God love Ana s parents having to sit through that. I hope they have a good core support network around them.

I also empathise fully with the Jury. They must be absolutely drained from the evidence and pressure to make the correct decison. May they receive the help they deserve to get back to their own lives as this will hugely impact them.

Lackadaisical

Beyond words.

I read Conor Gallagher's article in Irish Times on the case and to be quite honest I feel like I've been punched in the stomach. I'm not usually traumatised by newspaper articles, but this one is an exception. How the hell could anyone do something like that to anyone?

My thoughts are with Ana, her parents and the Kriegel family. May she rest in peace and never be forgotten.

Stop moaning ffs

Did I miss something?

It’s weird there was no texts or any calls between the two after the fact. Or after the gauards arrived.

You’d be straight away texting at least to say the police had come no? Especially boy b. If he truly didn’t do anything. And ran.


That to me suggests that there wasn’t cos they both knew and agreed not to at all.

iamwhoiam

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

snip>

You really need to read the court reports and stop making stuff up

o1s1n

eurokev wrote: »

Now I am not making excuses for the boys. I absolutely hate them, and would happily see them shot, but I really really think the internet and social media have a lot to answer for.

The internet is the best and worst invention of our time. Kids are so so tech savvy and the stuff they can see is beyond comprehension.

For example on my WhatsApp since the weekend I have received.
1) Pictures and videos of an incident where what looks like an elderly man was room over by a bus in some European city. A man can clearly be seen lying under the bus. He is in half. The concrete road around him is wetted by blood. The pinkness of his intestines clearly stand out.
2) A man being stabbed in the head by a screwdriver at what looks like a train station
3) video and graphic images of the incident which occured in ballyfermot over the last couple of days.
4) A woman putting a funnel up her bum, filling herself up with beer and spraying a load of men with said beer.
5) A man having sex with a woman while another woman craps on her face
6) A compilation clip of choking porn where women are choked unconscious while having sex.

Now I don't know where this stuff comes from, but it is widely distributed, and I wouldn't think it would be too hard for anyone with any inclination to view this content.
I would imagine plenty our tech savvy pre-teens in this country are also seeing their fair share of violent and sexually perverted and brutal content. It's so prevelent out there that people have become desensitized to it so much to the point that it is becoming normalised.

Now I don't agree with censoring the internet as it is a slippery slope, but something has to be done to prevent children from accessing this content. I remember back in 98 we were one of the first people in our town to get the internet. My sister was 9 I think and typed fun.com in to the search bar and up came a porn page. It's gotten even easier to see this stuff since.

Since the weekend I've received some harmless memes and cat videos. You'd really want to reassess who you communicate with :eek:

This is it

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Did I miss something?

It’s weird there was no texts or any calls between the two after the fact. Or after the gauards arrived.

You’d be straight away texting at least to say the police had come no? Especially boy b. If he truly didn’t do anything. And ran.


That to me suggests that there wasn’t cos they both knew and agreed not to at all.

You're missing a lot I'd say.

Gimme A Pound

anewme wrote: »

God love Ana s parents having to sit through that. I hope they have a good core support network around them.

I also empathise fully with the Jury. They must be absolutely drained from the evidence and pressure to make the correct decison. May they receive the help they deserve to get back to their own lives as this will hugely impact them.

Indeed. And I'd say the detectives on the case are fairly shook too. Only so much they can handle when conducting investigations into violent deaths. The guard who found her must have been in bits.