Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Dots1982

This is it wrote: »

Collecting as much information as possible maybe, much easier to interview when you already have a good picture of what happened

Don’t really buy that to be honest. You’re dealing with a missing person not a murder case at that stage.

Dots1982

mikemac2 wrote: »

Apologies in advance, I am sure it was asked and answered, it's a large thread. Murder is automatic life sentence but what about 14 years old? Does the same rules apply?

From listening to the Last word they mandatory life is not automatic.

HeidiHeidi

mikemac2 wrote: »

Apologies in advance, I am sure it was asked and answered, it's a large thread. Murder is automatic life sentence but what about 14 years old? Does the same rules apply?

No. Judge's discretion. Life sentence an option, but can give less based on probation reports etc.

fryup

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Social media was only getting going just as I left school.

I can only imagine the serious implications social media would have for how bullying is carried out in schools and the effects on the victims.

It must be horrendous.

yes, a generation ago if someone was bullied at school at least come the end of the school day that would be the end of it....but nowadays its there 24/7 for the whole world to see, i reckon there's a lot of kids under severe distress out there

This is it

Dots1982 wrote: »

Don’t really buy that to be honest. You’re dealing with a missing person not a murder case at that stage.

You're right, I hadn't thought of that. I don't know the details around the timing of interviews so I've no other explanation

iamwhoiam

Hoboo wrote: »

Behind a paywall, anyway around it?

During Boy B’s sessions with the doctor he had given him information about what he saw in the abandoned house that day, information he had failed to give gardaí.

The boy told the doctor he saw Boy A standing over Ana with his trousers open during the attack. And that he saw Ana gasping before going silent.

pablo128

My daughter is 10 and already as tall as her mother. She is noticeably taller than all the other kids in her class. I got bullied myself in school and by fcuk I'll raise hell if I find out other kids are bullying her. I would do likewise if I found out she was bullying other children too.

Fair play to Mr Kriegel for keeping his composure and dignity. I'm not sure if I could have.

Sir Oxman

mikemac2 wrote: »

Apologies in advance, I am sure it was asked and answered, it's a large thread. Murder is automatic life sentence but what about 14 years old? Does the same rules apply?

They'll be in some borstal for a few years and out by the time they hit 20 with a new ID and job and house.
Guaranteed.

Kermit.de.frog

mikemac2 wrote: »

Apologies in advance, I am sure it was asked and answered, it's a large thread. Murder is automatic life sentence but what about 14 years old? Does the same rules apply?

I believe there is discretion.

But even accounting for our joke of a 'justice' system I'd be amazed if boy a does not get life sentence at least!

Hurrache

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

And the choking porn thing - maybe those so eager to defend any adult porn might reconsider.

Erotic, and auto erotic, asphyxiation, it's a thing that some people like, not my bag but each to their own if it's between 1 or 2 consenting adults.

Gimme A Pound

Hoboo wrote: »

They won't get much with a euro.

Well more than one person would ideally pay for it.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Also from reading the bit on the RTE website,

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0618/1056045-ana-kriegel/

Ana started to experiment with self-harming as a friend told her about it. Then this same 'friend' set up a fake profile of a boy to make a fool out of her.
Also the other strange bit was that Ana's father said she set up fake accounts appearing to bully herself - which she told him about.
Her parents tried to the best for her and only let her have an iphone/ipad if she gave them her passwords.

All the talk about bullying and how it is a bad thing to do is all well and good.
But some people especially children will always single those out who are a bit 'different'.
It happened before the rise social media. and it will continue long after it.
The schools job is now just far more difficult than it was 20 years ago.
To blame the schools is just an easy scapegoat.
Society and the complete environment the child grows up in, are the real causes.

Be careful of shifting the blame. The bullies are the ones responsible, and of course there is some indirect blame on the school.

n97 mini

Gatling wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong wasn't Ana's blood found on both boys shoes ,

No. Nothing links boy B to anything apart from his own mouth.

Gimme A Pound

Hurrache wrote: »

Erotic, and auto erotic, asphyxiation, it's a thing that some people like, not my bag but each to their own if it's between 1 or 2 consenting adults.

"A compilation clip of choking porn where women are choked unconscious while having sex."

Again... the issue is with 13-year-olds having access to it.

Nerdlingr

Dots1982 wrote: »

One thing strange from reading this article- https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570

Boy B immediately incriminated boy A as the last to see Ana before she disappeared...yet from the reading of the article the police didn’t immediately approach Boy A to talk to him. Weird??

They did talk to him. But only in the capacity of a missing persons issue at the start, and him being one I'd the last to see her. When Boy A then gave the story of being beaten up by two men, to account for his injuries, the Gardai then investigated this assault. This gave them justifiable reason to size the clothes he was wearing on the day. Ana's body is found and the DNA test on Boy A's clothes matches hers. The gardai were spot on and followed the correct course of action here.
The defence even tried to have the bloodied boots etc thrown out as evidence because they argued they gardai had them tested for DNA and it prejudiced their investigation. The investigating Garda said that couldn't be because they didn't even know ana was dead at that point.
Fair play to all gardai involved in this. It can't have been easy dealing and seeing with everything. But they followed each step perfectly and got the correct outcome.

Lackadaisical

The social media platforms really do need to contribute a LOT more to tackling the cyber bullying their systems are enabling. I really do think they are getting a free ride. They make a fortune and a vulnerable % of their user base is simply not being protected.

I don't think it can be dealt with by censorship or pushing the technology back as the genie is very much out of the bottle at this stage and isn't going to go back in again.

We need huge resources put into education and support for parents, teachers and end-users in general. We're not all social media gurus, but if we are in a crisis situation, the networks should be making one easily available.

They also need to be MUCH quicker about reacting to reports of abusive behaviour and content.

Grayson

JuneMoon7 wrote: »

Are you for real. Parents lied and defended those little ****s even though they KNEW they were guilty as hell. All they cared about was themselves. What about the real victim? what about Ana?? They acted like they were the victims. They raised two feral monsters

In defense of boy b's father I'll say this. After reading the fantastic article in the Irish Times, Boy Be seems to be the smarter of the two. He was an eloquent manipulative little ****head. He lied constantly. I have no trouble believing that his father believes he's innocent. He's his father, he loves him and the child is manipulative.

Someday it's quite likely he'll come to realise what his son is like.

After reading that article I was also struck by how much of Boy A's character we know about because of Boy B. And yet Boy B lies constantly. I wouldn't trust a word he says and I could fully believe it was his idea.

fryup

Sir Oxman wrote: »

They'll be in some borstal for a few years and out by the time they hit 20 with a new ID and job and house.
Guaranteed.

they'll have to leave the country..there's no way they could remain anonymous in a small country like ireland

gormdubhgorm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You get a few articles a week free, but try going icognito.

That's the only suggestion I have at the minute.

It is a truly great article, glad to see there are some fine print journalists left to report factually by themselves based on the facts of the case, not pulled from some other news source.

Horrible horrible crime. What gets me most is the fact that two 13 year olds were up to that. Maybe times have changed, but I would think this kind of thinking started way before the actual crime, and I still can't believe that 12/13 year olds could be capable of this. But why am I suprised really, anything can happen anywhere.

Do an internet search on the Jamie Bulger case. It happened in 1993 in Liverpool. The perpetrators Robert Thompson and Jon Venables were aged 10. And the psychologists who analysed it said both Thompson and Venables egged each other on, and would not have committed the crime on thier own.
They only got 8 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger#Appeal_and_release

Grayson

Lackadaisical wrote: »

The social media platforms really do need to contribute a LOT more to tackling the cyber bullying their systems are enabling. I really do think they are getting a free ride. They make a fortune and a vulnerable % of their user base is simply not being protected.

I don't think it can be dealt with by censorship or pushing the technology back as the genie is very much out of the bottle at this stage and isn't going to go back in again.

We need huge resources put into education and support for parents, teachers and end-users in general. We're not all social media gurus, but if we are in a crisis situation, the networks should be making one easily available.

They also need to be MUCH quicker about reacting to reports of abusive behaviour and content.

Kids find a way round it. Create anonymous accounts and stuff like that. We need far more anti bullying and equality teaching. Ana was picked on because she was just a bit different and we need to stop that kind of stuff happening. We need better systems in place in schools where kids can approach people and talk about it and parents can get involved. Sure social media companies can get involved but we have to address the problem outside of the technical sphere as well.

AMKC

Delighted that these two scumbags have been found guilty.

I hope the two scumbags are put in a dark cell to let rot and never let out.

Ana had so much to live for and so much potential but these two scumbags took that away from her.

Such a very sad case.

Rest in Peace Ana. You did not deserve what happened to you.

downwesht

If I was the father of either of those two monsters....I would have taken them on a trip to the Cliffs of Moher,they would have either jumped or i'd have thrown them over.How could you live with the fear that they might reoffend.If a dog bites you put him down.....

Ash.J.Williams

Grayson wrote: »

In defense of boy b's father I'll say this. After reading the fantastic article in the Irish Times, Boy Be seems to be the smarter of the two. He was an eloquent manipulative little ****head. He lied constantly. I have no trouble believing that his father believes he's innocent. He's his father, he loves him and the child is manipulative.

Someday it's quite likely he'll come to realise what his son is like.

After reading that article I was also struck by how much of Boy A's character we know about because of Boy B. And yet Boy B lies constantly. I wouldn't trust a word he says and I could fully believe it was his idea.

Just thinking about it now I always thought one of the Jamie bulger killers was cooler more calculating and more psycho than the other and I'm wondering is boy b the same?

Nerdlingr

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Eh, because It would imply that 13yr Boy B was already on the PULSE system.

That doesn't mean anything bad.
Everyone with any interaction with gardai is on pulse. Anyone who reports something missing is on pulse. Anyone who is an injured party is on pulse. Anyone who is a witness to anything is on pulse. Anyone involved in any incident involving Gardai is on pulse.
It doesn't mean anything bad about anyone.

Wheeliebin30

I’m amazed two 13 year olds didn’t crack been interviewed by Gardai.

Most people would be bricking it and just admit it especially kids.

n97 mini

n97 mini wrote: »

No. Nothing links boy B to anything apart from his own mouth.

And that fact that he called for her & was seen with her.

Grayson

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Just thinking about it now I always thought one of the Jamie bulger killers was cooler more calculating and more psycho than the other and I'm wondering is boy b the same?

That's what I was thinking. He only ever gave out information to help himself. The other kid said feck all. I think Boy B thought he was smarter than everyone else.

Dots1982

Nerdlingr wrote: »

They did talk to him. But only in the capacity of a missing persons issue at the start, and him being one I'd the last to see her. When Boy A then gave the story of being beaten up by two men, to account for his injuries, the Gardai then investigated this assault. This gave them justifiable reason to size the clothes he was wearing on the day. Ana's body is found and the DNA test on Boy A's clothes matches hers. The gardai were spot on and followed the correct course of action here.
The defence even tried to have the bloodied boots etc thrown out as evidence because they argued they gardai had them tested for DNA and it prejudiced their investigation. The investigating Garda said that couldn't be because they didn't even know ana was dead at that point.
Fair play to all gardai involved in this. It can't have been easy dealing and seeing with everything. But they followed each step perfectly and got the correct outcome.

Yeah from rereading it they bring boy A in with Boy B to the field as soon as possible; Tuesday afternoon after Monday disappearance.

It just reads a bit weird because the article goes on about leads going no where in the meantime as well as a random encounter with boy A and his father when they are out searching. Strange this happened in this short a window.

gmisk

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I’m amazed two 13 year olds didn’t crack been interviewed by Gardai.

Most people would be bricking it and just admit it especially kids.

13 year olds would not be interviewed without being well versed by a solicitor and parents let's be honest.

Seathrun66

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Boy B stood and watched the whole thing.
There was blood on his shoe was there not?

That's Boy A. There were no forensic ties whatsoever to Boy B. Had he remained silent or just given a brief early statement he'd be free. The lies during garda questioning got him convicted.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

bubblypop wrote: »

And that fact that he called for her & was seen with her.

Which doesn’t mean he killed her or knew about it. It he had shopped boy A the next day he would be free now. It’s because he didn’t that suspicion falls on him. It’s a definitely less clear cut case than boy A but I believe that justice was done.