Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Nerdlingr

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Online bullies did not kill the girl nor cause the girl to be killed. In fact the online bullying was completely unrelated to the actual main facts of the case.
It was just mentioned by her parents to show what type of girl Ana was, and how she was more vulnerable than most

What?
The fact she was bullied, ostracized and vunerable is one of the main reasons these cretins chose to do what they did. They made her life hell. And then they took that life in horrific circumstances. She was picked on by a community of bullies by the sound of it.
They used her need for friendship and to be accepted, to lure her out and murder her. It's intrinsic to the case.

El_Bee

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Online bullies did not kill the girl nor cause the girl to be killed. In fact the online bullying was completely unrelated to the actual main facts of the case.
It was just mentioned by her parents to show what type of girl Ana was, and how she was more vulnerable than most

I keep stating this but it bears repeating, I believe her isolation and victimization made her a target, there's so much blame to go around, ****ing hell.

Larbre34

2018na wrote: »

Yes you're right on mature recollection I hope his family suffers too

Get in the sea.

Seathrun66

pablo128 wrote: »

Lad, you will go to jail if you are caught identifying them. Give over for your own sake.

Fully agree. Loads of conjecture about the employment of the boys' fathers and their nationality.

If untrue there may be vigilante attacks on the wrong people. If true then the posters are in danger of facing justified criminal charges.

The moderators need to be on top of this.

tuxy

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

He could have said no. I would have.

Most people who practice law believe in the principle that everyone deserves a defence in a trial.
Them receiving the best possible defence and still found guilty gives some degree of closure.

This is it

freak scence wrote: »

you have a problem with that ?

Did you bang your head? Who said there was a problem

Hal3000

Hal3000 wrote: »

That's really pathetic from the schools.

Not really much else they can do. It's not the teachers who want it to be impossible to have kids expelled or to have to still have kids in the class who've assaulted other staff.

Hal3000

There should be a new law brought in to deal with bullying. I'm sorry no more should this be accepted. It time for accountability. Expulsion from schools. This will only get worse unless we address it. Ana and also those lives ruined by bullies should not be in vain... Now what politician or party would take this on?

Sunflower 27

tuxy wrote: »

Most people who practice law believe in the principle that everyone deserves a defence in a trial.
Them receiving the best possible defence and still found guilty gives some degree of closure.

Maybe. But I'd have refused, was my point.

Dante7

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

He could have said no. I would have.

I have a family member who was a barrister and was a junior counsel having to defend an obviously guilty paedophile. After the case he said fcuk that and entered corporate law.

BorneTobyWilde

Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

Nerdlingr

You don't have to lay a hand on someone to be convicted of murder.

jon1981

Kaylani Red Roller-skate wrote: »

Imagine the poor girls hope leaving the house, thinking she'd found some acceptance. And her parents hopes thinking the same.

Much of this I can't think too deeply about, it doesn't even anger me. It reaches a deeper sadness than that.

I hope the two evil little bastards dying roaring.

They'll be out of prison by mid 30s if not long before. That's the injustice, this vermin will be walking the streets one day among us.

Spanish Eyes

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

A jury of twelve disagree with you. They heard and saw all the evidence, no one else did apart from those allowed in the courtroom.

bigpink

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

He could have tried to stop it or help her

El_Bee

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

Seek psychiatric help.

Sunflower 27

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

No, he just led her there and watched her be murdered and lied about it over and over and did nothing afterwards to help her or alert police to her body.

Poor Boy B.

holliehobbie

iamwhoiam wrote: »

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

What good is releasing their names going to do for anybody now?

Maybe in the future it will alert people to them . It just might stop some women marrying a murderer . Yes name them and let us be aware of them

I cried when I heard that they were found guilty. I was afraid boyB wouldnt be convicted. My youngest girl was 14 when Ana was murdered. I would not like her or any of her young friends to end up with one of these boys in a couple of years time. They should be named.

screamer

I think the age of criminal responsibility needs lowering, and once convicted, name and shame them for the good and protection of society. The laws of our country which they broke should not afford them any protection or anonymity. You murder someone, you’re tried as an adult and named when convicted. No more of this child BS.

iamwhoiam

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

He led her to her death and stood by as the poor girl was attacked and murdered
For all we know he might very well have been the master puppeteer. He absolutely is guilty

Tipperary animal lover

The sad thing outside of this poor defenseless girl veen killed is that bullying seems to be so normal now, I bet if a couple of ye on here looked at your teenage son/daughters phones, ye would get a bit of a surprise with their social media platforms they use whatapps/viber messages, it's never my johnny/Mary could do something like that( but bullying happens in every school in the country), as a gay guy in my 40s I was bullied none stop in school, thank f*ck no phones back then but the name calling the stuff wrote on walls about me, the dog **** constantly put in my school bag/smeared over books, the school would deal with it!!! I stopped telling them after 3rd year what was going on but hey the bullying kept going till 6th year,but im a much stronger person now, just because kids are different doesn't give anybody the right to pickon/tease/harass/ murder, it's some parents son/daughter that is doing the bullying .... it could your teenager that is sitting down beside you right now

Franz Von Peppercorn II

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

You didn’t read any of the evidence. She was attacked before the sexual assault while boy B was there. She was attacked before the sexual assault which was planned.

Clearly boy A set out to murder and sexually assault. Given that boy B was aware of this and didn’t report it he’s considered complicit.

Amalgam

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy Bee should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy Bee could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

He's complicit, lured her knowing harm would come to her. That's what gets him a conviction.

tuxy

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

Lies on top of lies on top of more lies with constant reassessment on how much fabrication he could get away with. Boy A was in custody at that point and no threat to boy b, no harm would have come to him if he was innocent and told the truth.

Calltocall

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Where is the evidence that the parents lied? If so they'd be up on charges of perverting the course of justice.

In terms of defending your kids it's what parents do. And given the complete lack of DNA and other forensic evidence it's no surprise that Boy B's parents supported him. I expect him to be discharged on appeal.

Are you for real, no surprise they supported him FFS! They knew their son and would have had to of known there were serious inconsistencies in his story but didn’t want to accept that and instead dragged the victims family through a trial instead of grabbing the little **** by the scruff of the neck and make him tell the guards the truth from the outset and make him face the consequences of his actions maybe if they took that line when rearing him he wouldn’t be in the mess he’s in today, now he’s learning the hard way, there are consequences for your actions, they should have taught him that valuable lesson.

Seathrun66

El_Bee wrote: »

Schools are effectively paralyzed, suspension is rare and expulsion all but impossible, what would have gotten you expelled 10-15 years ago might get you counseling session where they plead with you to please behave today.

This sounds like a Dublin issue (& possibly Cork) but nationally? I don't believe the same discipline issues apply in much of the country beyond the Pale.

This is it

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

"There is a chance", "I doubt", "seems to me", "could not have known", "probably"... The jury believed, beyond all reasonable doubt, that Boy B was guilty of murder, that's what matters, not what you believe. I'm sure they're in a far better position to judge what happened than you are.

Dante7

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

You weren't in the court and you didn't hear and see all the evidence. The jury seemed to be very capable and diligent and asked to review all his interviews (none of which you have seen). They spent a long time assessing all evidence and arrived at their conclusion unanimously. You can take your armchair opinion and shove it.

Mrsmum

Maybe this is a stupid question but is there any crime called bullying even when it's at the extreme end ? Can you go to the garda station and report that your child is being bullied by X ? Because some of these bullies would badly want a squad car to the door or to be up in court.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Maybe. But I'd have refused, was my point.

which is why you aren't involved in the profession, it's great for you to sit there and judge though, well done you, you're great