Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Suckit

I see they have removed all of her youtube videos. Just her pending live streams titles are left on her page.
I wonder if her parents requested that.
Was very sad to watch them, but lovely to have seen a glimpse of what she was like.

tayto lover

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

Bulls***.
He’s equally as guilty as Boy A.

1. Boy A told him he was going to murder Anna.
2. Boy B supplied the blue sticky tape used to subdue her.
3. Boy B watched it without intervening. ( because he was in on it).
4. Boy B never told what happened, where her body was or who was involved.
5. Boy B fetched Anna to be murdered.
6. He lied and lied and changed his story 9 times.

You could go on and on about Boy B but even with the above he’s a murdering piece of ****.

Faugheen

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

There was plenty of evidence.

You don't need to have forensic DNA evidence for everything.

You've done this a few times now where you say x, y or z shouldn't be guilty because of a lack of physical evidence.

He lied multiple times. He claimed he was never at the scene and then he managed to place himself at the scene after a number of further interviews.

You weren't in court. You don't know what the jury saw. Cop yourself on.

Gavlor

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

Should the Driver of a getaway car used in a bank robbery be found guilty if the entire gang were caught and arrested?

He didn’t rob the bank and could argue that he assumed his mates were going in to discuss their exorbitant overdraft fees. If boy B lured her in to that farmhouse then he deserves to have the book thrown at him.

BorneTobyWilde

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

A jury of twelve disagree with you. They heard and saw all the evidence, no one else did apart from those allowed in the courtroom.

Yea, and they agreed


'' there is zero evidence, zero DNA evidence. We have no proof he set out that day with a plan to murder, but he tried to hide what happened straight away in a Garda interview, so we''ll convict him or murder''



But if it was only a window he broke with a ball he'd have lied about it straight away. It's a huge jump from lying to '' he planed it, he woke up that day, today is the day she dies'' I don't believe that.
Boy A, He can rot in hell. But Boy B was convicted on lying.

El_Bee

Seathrun66 wrote: »

This sounds like a Dublin issue (& possibly Cork) but nationally? I don't believe the same discipline issues apply in much of the country beyond the Pale.

Maybe, in Dublin definitely, the crazy thing is I have no idea how the teaching unions aren't more vocal about this, the level of chaos and violence in some schools is staggering.

Elemonator

bennyl10 wrote: »

They can’t have been tried as adults afaik?
Irish law doesn’t allow for it.(agin I could be wrong)

All child convictions have to be reviewed at 18

May be tried if the charge is sufficiently serious.

yourdeadwright

tuxy wrote: »

Bee????

Lies on top of lies on top of more lies with constant reassessment on how much fabrication he could get away with. Boy A was in custody at that point and no threat to boy b, no harm would have come to him if he was innocent and told the truth.

Serious question do we know anything about these boys level of competence ?
Has there been any mention of low IQ or learning difficulties ?
Boy B either was fully aware and helped set it up or could have been slow and used. ,

It's a genuine question as I haven't read the whole case

El_Bee

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Yea, and they agreed


'' there is zero evidence, zero DNA evidence. We have no proof he set out that day with a plan to murder, but he tried to hide what happened straight away in a Garda interview, so we''ll convict him or murder''



But if it was only a window he broke with a ball he'd have lied about it straight away. It's a huge jump from lying to '' he planed it, he woke up that day, today is the day she dies'' I don't believe that.
Boy A, He can rot in hell. But Boy B was convicted on lying.

do you have a stake in this case?

screamer

Mrsmum wrote: »

Maybe this is a stupid question but is there any crime called bullying even when it's at the extreme end ? Can you go to the garda station and report that your child is being bullied by X ? Because some of these bullies would badly want a squad car to the door or to be up in court.

You know I could tell you a bullying story that would make your hair stand in end with what the bully did, and their parents refused to let them be questioned or anything as they were under 18 and they got away with it scot free. So in short, if your kid is being bullied in school, find a new school, unless your kid is willing to kick the crap out of the bullies, there’s no other way.

El_Bee

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Serious question do we know anything about these boys level of competence ?
Has there been any mention of low IQ or learning difficulties ?
Boy B either was fully aware and helped set it up or could have been slow and used. ,

It's a genuine question as I haven't read the whole case

Yes, Boy B was very articulate and clever during interviews. I don't want to know about "learning difficulties", that's something thrown out to defend scumbags on a daily basis, what it actually means is, they never paid a minutes attention in school and can barely read & write as a result, in any case, neither of them have "learning difficulties".

strandroad

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Serious question do we know anything about these boys level of competence ?
Has there been any mention of low IQ or learning difficulties ?
Boy B either was fully aware and helped set it up or could have been slow and used. ,

It's a genuine question as I haven't read the whole case

Boy B is described as "highly intelligent" and "very bright" in the articles.

seasidedub

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/

This is an interesting article on child psychopaths.

Most psychiatric experts believe it can simply happen, a Neuro glitch and not always the result of trauma, poor parents etc. Their brains, particularly the reward centres are wired differently.

Obviously backgrounds like Thompson and Venebles won't help, but it can happen in a totally normal family too

Sunflower 27

Shiloh Puny Keyboard wrote: »

which is why you aren't involved in the profession, it's great for you to sit there and judge though, well done you, you're great

Saying I wouldn't haven't defended him would have been a choice I made. Not sure why that makes me wrong, but anyhoo

Gimme A Pound

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I did not shift the blame at all. I am saying society and environment creates an individual.
What you are looking for is to take the responsibility away from parents, and leave it to the schools to do the parents job for them.

No I'm not. I didn't mention the parents. Sometimes they are to blame but sometimes they are not. The school isn't totally to blame but it's not blameless if bullying is known to be carrying on on its premises.

What's this "society" thing about? It gets used to explain things in a high handed manner but it's meaningless. And it does shift responsibility from those who actually carry the deed out.

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her

"Seems to" you? Despite the kit with the mask and kneepads etc? Surely you're taking the piss.

anewme

seasidedub wrote: »

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/

Obviously backgrounds like Thompson and Venebles won't help, but it can happen in a totally normal family too

The Detectives in the case felt Thompson had a safe upbringing.

BorneTobyWilde

Faugheen wrote: »

There was plenty of evidence.

You don't need to have forensic DNA evidence for everything.

You've done this a few times now where you say x, y or z shouldn't be guilty because of a lack of physical evidence.

He lied multiple times. He claimed he was never at the scene and then he managed to place himself at the scene after a number of further interviews.

You weren't in court. You don't know what the jury saw. Cop yourself on.

I'm only going on the news reports that they found zero evidence, so convicted him of murder on police interviews. But kids lie over the smallest of things, had it being a broken window he'd have lied. But eventually the truth comes out, so maybe just maybe the truth was his last reveal, all Boy A, and he ran away. Who knows.

Hal3000

Hopefully someone politician or party lobby for a new law against bullying. Name it after Ana. We need to send a strong message to the vermin that think they can get away with bullying.

gormdubhgorm

2018na wrote: »

Yes you're right on mature recollection I hope his family suffers too

Nothing hysterical or hyperbolic about that at all. :rolleyes:

Seathrun66

anewme wrote: »

Why would he be discharged when hes guilty as charged.?

His Father a grade A bully, having a meltdown in the Court because he didnt get his own way. Must have been a proud moment for Dad to see his son describe Ana as slutty.

Ana's parents showed incredible restraint and dignity in the face of this abuse.

The Appeal Court may find him not guilty. Not allowing the psychiatrist witness was, I believe, a judicial error. No DNA. No forensic ties. His legal team will again allege Gardai bullying tactics.

DPP should have gone for Perverting the Course of Justice and Accomplice to Murder. That would have stuck. The murder charge won't.

yourdeadwright

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Saying I wouldn't haven't defended him would have been a choice I made. Not sure why that makes me wrong, but anyhoo

Who's to say he didn't take the case to make sure the defence was done correctly with no ****ery so justice was served ,

A man of his experience would have know the outcome once he seen the evidence ,

Someone's has to take the defence case ,you can't have a trail without it ,

El_Bee

Mrsmum wrote: »

Maybe this is a stupid question but is there any crime called bullying even when it's at the extreme end ? Can you go to the garda station and report that your child is being bullied by X ? Because some of these bullies would badly want a squad car to the door or to be up in court.

screamer wrote: »

You know I could tell you a bullying story that would make your hair stand in end with what the bully did, and their parents refused to let them be questioned or anything as they were under 18 and they got away with it scot free. So in short, if your kid is being bullied in school, find a new school, unless your kid is willing to kick the crap out of the bullies, there’s no other way.

As I mentioned earlier, I overheard a neghbour and her friend build an alibi for their two little angels as they were called into a meeting in the school over bullying another girl, the vile creatures are still in school, clown world.

swarlb

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

The sad thing outside of this poor defenseless girl veen killed is that bullying seems to be so normal now, I bet if a couple of ye on here looked at your teenage son/daughters phones, ye would get a bit of a surprise with their social media platforms they use whatapps/viber messages, it's never my johnny/Mary could do something like that( but bullying happens in every school in the country), as a gay guy in my 40s I was bullied none stop in school, thank f*ck no phones back then but the name calling the stuff wrote on walls about me, the dog **** constantly put in my school bag/smeared over books, the school would deal with it!!! I stopped telling them after 3rd year what was going on but hey the bullying kept going till 6th year,but im a much stronger person now, just because kids are different doesn't give anybody the right to pickon/tease/harass/ murder, it's some parents son/daughter that is doing the bullying .... it could your teenager that is sitting down beside you right now

I followed this trial with interest. Mainly because I adopted a girl from Russia, similar age to what Ana would be now. She went through similar in school, bullied mostly by girls as it happened. She obviously inherited some traits of her homeland, as while she was always upset, she has a determined streak in her which made her fight back at times, and ignore at other times. As a result she did get into trouble, and at times I was called to the school to answer for her behaviour. My response was always the same..."If she didn't start it, then she is not at fault" I never once discouraged my daughter from standing up for herself. Generally speaking, any complaints about my daughter at school, came from the parents of her peers.
As a result the few friends she has, are genuine. Better to have one good friend, than ten false ones !
Like Ana, she is beautiful.
I have no words for what her parents went through, and have to live with.
I have no sympathy for the boys involved, or their parents.

tuxy

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Serious question do we know anything about these boys level of competence ?
Has there been any mention of low IQ or learning difficulties ?
Boy B either was fully aware and helped set it up or could have been slow and used. ,

It's a genuine question as I haven't read the whole case

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570

His solicitor told the detectives the boy had “reflected” on his statement overnight and wanted to make a change. “I’m going to retell the story of what actually happened,” Boy B said. “What I told you yesterday was a lie.”

He went on to say he and Ana had met Boy A by the BMX track in the park, not by Meadowfields as he previously claimed. Despite the dramatic preamble, the boy’s admission of dishonesty did little to advance the case. He claimed he lied because he initially got confused about his movements in the park and felt he couldn’t change his story without arousing suspicion.

Up to then Boy B had remained remarkably calm.

A highly intelligent child, he spoke calmly, clearly and in full sentences. When gardaí asked if he knew what words like “detention” or “murder” meant he gave concise, accurate answers. At one point Gannon asked if he knew what the word “arrest” meant. “That you are detaining me for something that I did or might have done,” Boy B replied.

Hal3000

Hal3000 wrote: »

Hopefully someone politician or party lobby for a new law against bullying. Name it after Ana. We need to send a strong message to the vermin that think they can get away with bullying.

We could start a petition... This case has just sickened me. How can we let this continue. I'm asking my local TDs questions in the morning.

freak scence

swarlb wrote: »

I followed this trial with interest. Mainly because I adopted a girl from Russia, similar age to what Ana would be now. She went through similar in school, bullied mostly by girls as it happened. She obviously inherited some traits of her homeland, as while she was always upset, she has a determined streak in her which made her fight back at times, and ignore at other times. As a result she did get into trouble, and at times I was called to the school to answer for her behaviour. My response was always the same..."If she didn't start it, then she is not at fault" I never once discouraged my daughter from standing up for herself. Generally speaking, any complaints about my daughter at school, came from the parents of her peers.
As a result the few friends she has, are genuine. Better to have one good friend, than ten false ones !
Like Ana, she is beautiful.
I have no words for what her parents went through, and have to live with.
I have no sympathy for the boys involved, or their parents.

great post

Franz Von Peppercorn II

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Yea, and they agreed


'' there is zero evidence, zero DNA evidence. We have no proof he set out that day with a plan to murder, but he tried to hide what happened straight away in a Garda interview, so we''ll convict him or murder''

But if it was only a window he broke with a ball he'd have lied about it straight away. It's a huge jump from lying to '' he planed it, he woke up that day, today is the day she dies'' I don't believe that.
Boy A, He can rot in hell. But Boy B was convicted on lying.

You clearly had no idea of the evidence against him when you started ranting and refuse to acknowledge it now.

Nerdlingr

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I'm only going on the news reports that they found zero evidence, so convicted him of murder on police interviews. But kids lie over the smallest of things, had it being a broken window he'd have lied. But eventually the truth comes out, so maybe just maybe the truth was his last reveal, all Boy A, and he ran away. Who knows.

What's this "zero evidence" about? A few people have said it about Boy B now. There's loads of evidence! And most of it, if not all, is from the mouth of the perpetrator himself!

Sunflower 27

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Who's to say he didn't take the case to make sure the defence was done correctly with no ****ery so justice was served ,

A man of his experience would have know the outcome once he seen the evidence ,

Someone's has to take the defence case ,you can't have a trail without it ,

Yes, someone did. Who knows if others refused.

You are saying that he took the case to lose? Yeah, ok.

Seathrun66

freak scence wrote: »

ah cop on they are scum fuking bags

As before where is there any evidence that the parents lied? You're accusing people of criminal behaviour but unable to provide any proof. We really have no idea what the parents are like. Only conjecture.