Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

fritzelly

freak scence wrote: »

sad ****in sacks defending this ****e

Someone would have had to defend him

dd973

There's always been a viciousness in this country towards people deemed different or not fitting in, it hasn't gone away with the disappearance of the industrial schools, magdalen launderies, the lessening of the Church's role in the state or with all the apparent hippy-dippy liberal identity politics that are commoditised to the core.

It's something that's all pervasive and not hard to find if you keep your eyes and ears open, it's directed towards people whom are deemed not Irish enough, LGBT people and those rumoured to be LGBT, Travellers or anybody who 'looks like a Traveller', any male who's not a swaggering pseudo-alpha gob****e, working class people labelled as 'knackers', anybody who basically doesn't fit in with 'Brand Ireland'. It's still a small country with minds to match.

Spanish Eyes

Hal3000 wrote: »

If the schools can do nothing about bullying then essentially we are sending out kids into dangerous environments everyday. Only in Ireland. It's not that the schools can do nothing, it's that's they're backed by a toothless Department that obviously don't give them any authority or proper guidance. In typical Irish fashion we will keep passing the buck until another person is killed in the same fashion.

I think bullying whether at school or work can/has led to many a suicide also.

Anti bullying policies sound and look great in your work contract, or on a school website etc. but it would appear that the reality is very different.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

What are masks and knee pads for when planning a murder.

The masks were the frighten her. The knee pads were to keep his precious little knees unharmed as he assaulted or raped her. The gloves were to stop any fingerprints.

Little monster.

Stoner

MightyMandarin wrote:

God help you if your child ever commits a heinous crime. While how one is raised is definitely a factor in how they end up, to blame the parents for their sons committing an act of murder is totally unfair. Plenty of murderers and criminals were raised in good homes with loving parents.

To not recognise the parents role after the crime? are you serious?

Being in complete denial of what terrible crime they committed is unforgivable, the wrong thing to do every time. If any of the parents supported a guilty plea then I'd have sympathy with them.

This is not the time for a "walk a mile in my shoes " story, this is about their behaviour after the crime, not the loving home they did or didn't create while raising their children.
This is not about showing empathy for fellow parents, leave that sentiment out of this. Where was theirs for the victim's patents?

The poster was 100 percent correct.
If either of our families committed such a terrible act, we still have some control over how we act, how we appear to the now childless couple.

screamer

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

There is a crime called harassment in the non-fatal offences of the person act 1997 s10.2

I am not sure if there is a cyber-bullying element in legislation although there have been calls for it.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/new-laws-to-combat-online-abuse-such-as-cyberbullying-and-revenge-porn-422963.html

It doesn’t matter, under 18 and **** all will be done.

yourdeadwright

fritzelly wrote: »

Someone would have had to defend him

He means in this thread not court

tayto lover

spurious wrote: »

But yet others say all he does is lie. So he lies about some things but not others?
He isn't lying when he says he was involved, but sometimes he is lying?
(I'm playing devil's advocate here btw in case anyone goes mad).

I wasn't in court and I have no doubt he was involved, but I also agree with the poster who said a murder charge against Boy B was maybe not the way to go. I think he might win an appeal.

He has no chance in an appeal.
Joe O’Reilly had no physical evidence as such against him but he lost his appeals and rightly so. Circumstantial evidence is just as good.

gormdubhgorm

dave1982 wrote: »

<snip>

It will be worse for society in the long run if they are exposed.
They will end up being even more messed up and a greater danger.
They will likely be another Jon Venables as a result.

anewme

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Calltocall wrote: »

Are you for real, no surprise they supported him FFS! They knew their son and would have had to of known there were serious inconsistencies in his story but didn’t want to accept that and instead dragged the victims family through a trial instead of grabbing the little **** by the scruff of the neck and make him tell the guards the truth from the outset and make him face the consequences of his actions maybe if they took that line when rearing him he wouldn’t be in the mess he’s in today, now he’s learning the hard way, their are consequences for your actions, they should have taught him that valuable lesson.

The evidence against Boy B is slight and an unsafe conviction I think. Particularly given the exclusion of the psychiatric witness. He'll likely be released by the Appeal Court. I would thus fully expect Boy B's parents to support him though they must have been flabbergasted by his ever-changing statements.

Boy A is an entirely matter.

Boy B's Father was a disrespectful see you next Tuesday, slamming doors, cursing, shouting abuse in the Court when he did not get his way.

Ana's parents remained dignified in the face of horrible evidence.

But what kind of responsible parent skulks off to bed when their son is interviewed at their own front door by Gardai as being the last so see a young girl alive?

Boy B is particularly evil, manipulative sly dog who thought hed get away with it. A junior Graham Dwyer, praying on the vulnerable.

Sunflower 27

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I happy he lost just like you
All I'm saying is someone had to take case

Well obviously someone was going to take this high profile case. Winning when the odds are stacked against you could do wonders for a career.

fritzelly

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It will be worse for society in the long run if they are exposed.
They will end up being even more messed up and a greater danger.
They will likely be another Jon Venables as a result.

They've killed someone and all the rest - I don't think you can get more messed up than that

Zeek12

Hal3000 wrote: »

I think a few PQs to the Dept of Education are in order. I want to know what's the policy on dealing with bullying? This is crazy how people are saying the schools can do nothing. That's just not acceptable. If we keep pressure on politicians they will have to act. Start petitions ask Parliamentary questions. This issue is at the core of Irish values and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer.

By all means we can explore any way to help schools monitor this better.

But let's not kid ourselves. Values, respect and discipline begin at home.
And the primary responsibility for this lies with parents.

It's quite clear there were issues at home with lack of supervision on these kids' online activities.

All the evidence indicated the worst of the bullying occurred on social media.
Not in school

screamer

dd973 wrote: »

There's always been a viciousness in this country towards people deemed different or not fitting in, it hasn't gone away with the disappearance of the industrial schools, magdalen launderies, the lessening of the Church's role in the state or with all the apparent hippy-dippy liberal identity politics that are commoditised to the core.

It's something that's all pervasive and not hard to find if you keep your eyes and ears open, it's directed towards people whom are deemed not Irish enough, LGBT people and those rumoured to be LGBT, Travellers or anybody who 'looks like a Traveller', any male who's not a swaggering pseudo-alpha gob****e, working class people labelled as 'knackers', anybody who basically doesn't fit in with 'Brand Ireland'. It's still a small country with minds to match.

Also fat kids, good looking kids, smarter than average kids, hell, they’ll bully you for anything when you’re not their definition of “normal”.
This is learned behavior and behind every nasty little bullying chunt is a nasty bullying chunt of a parent and that’s why anti bullying gets no traction because the kids are just mirrors of their parents, who see no wrong in teaching their kids to be as vitriolic as themselves

petrolcan

Hal3000 wrote: »

Hopefully someone politician or party lobby for a new law against bullying. Name it after Ana. We need to send a strong message to the vermin that think they can get away with bullying.

Great, a generation of kids with criminal records. That's just what's needed.

:rolleyes:

MissShihTzu

The level of shock I feel about this case, I can only liken to that of poor James Bulger. The children involved are beyond wicked. Just how depraved are they and at such a young age. I read one of the boys had a large amount of porn on his phone. How on earth did the parents not notice any strange behaviour? How come they don't know what their kids were doing and what's on their phones?

I'm beyond shocked and saddened by this, and actually feel quite depressed. What the **** have we come to??

Seathrun66

freak scence wrote: »

with kids like that who gives a ****

Then don't make statements that the parents lied when you can't back it up.

And we really don't know what the parents are like. I know the parents of a double murderer. Loving and lovely people. And when I worked as a lawyer I represented a lot of unloveable people. Many with very decent parents. That may not be the case with the parents of these two lads but we have no idea so speculation and condemnation isn't wise.

gormdubhgorm

screamer wrote: »

It doesn’t matter, under 18 and **** all will be done.

Of course they are more than likely underage.
I had forgotten the obvious.

hatrickpatrick

petrolcan wrote: »

Great, a generation of kids with criminal records. That's just what's needed.

:rolleyes:

ITT: All kids engage in violent bullying.

Yamanoto

dd973 wrote: »

There's always been a viciousness in this country towards people deemed different or not fitting in, it hasn't gone away with the disappearance of the industrial schools, magdalen launderies, the lessening of the Church's role in the state or with all the apparent hippy-dippy liberal identity politics that are commoditised to the core.

It's something that's all pervasive and not hard to find if you keep your eyes and ears open, it's directed towards people whom are deemed not Irish enough, LGBT people and those rumoured to be LGBT, Travellers or anybody who 'looks like a Traveller', any male who's not a swaggering pseudo-alpha gob****e, working class people labelled as 'knackers', anybody who basically doesn't fit in with 'Brand Ireland'. It's still a small country with minds to match.

As Paul Calf so succinctly put it, bag of sh1te.

tuxy

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Well obviously someone was going to take this high profile case. Winning when the odds are stacked against you could do wonders for a career.

Patrick Gageby SC is already a highly regarded defence Barrister that specialises in high profile cases. (many of them for murder)

Sunflower 27

MissShihTzu wrote: »

The level of shock I feel about this case, I can only liken to that of poor James Bulger. The children involved are beyond wicked. Just how depraved are they and at such a young age. I read one of the boys had a large amount of porn on his phone. How on earth did the parents not notice any strange behaviour? How come they don't know what their kids were doing and what's on their phones?

I'm beyond shocked and saddened by this, and actually feel quite depressed. What the **** have we come to??

I suppose working parents, busy lives. Most parents aren't going to think they are raising potential murderers.

Kids spend a lot of time on their phones these days. That would hardly been seen as strange or deviant.

screamer

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

ITT: All kids engage in violent bullying.

Maybe a generation of law abiding, tolerant citizens because they don’t want criminal convictions following them around. Try to see the positives in it.

Sunflower 27

tuxy wrote: »

Patrick Gageby SC is already a highly regarded defence Barrister that specialises in high profile cases. (many of them for murder)

Then he probably believed he had a decent chance of getting Boy A off. And knew what that would mean for his career.

Gimme A Pound

dd973 wrote: »

There's always been a viciousness in this country towards people deemed different or not fitting in, it hasn't gone away with the disappearance of the industrial schools, magdalen launderies, the lessening of the Church's role in the state or with all the apparent hippy-dippy liberal identity politics that are commoditised to the core.

It's something that's all pervasive and not hard to find if you keep your eyes and ears open, it's directed towards people whom are deemed not Irish enough, LGBT people and those rumoured to be LGBT, Travellers or anybody who 'looks like a Traveller', any male who's not a swaggering pseudo-alpha gob****e, working class people labelled as 'knackers', anybody who basically doesn't fit in with 'Brand Ireland'. It's still a small country with minds to match.

It's found everywhere. And news to me that working class people (i.e. those who work - where the term comes from) get referred to as knackers.

Ffs show some class given the topic - it's hardly the thread for you to bang an "It's Ireland's fault" drum.

ILoveYourVibes

All the kids who isolated her at school and their parents need to have a hard look at themselves too.


Poor girl. I am a bit upset to read it all ....i don't want to know the details to be honest.

hatrickpatrick

screamer wrote: »

Maybe a generation of law abiding, tolerant citizens because they don’t want criminal convictions following them around. Try to see the positives in it.

Oh I think it's a good idea, I was taking issue with the "a generation of kids" comment which implied that a majority of kids engage in violent bullying. Such a law would only screw up the lives of budding scumbags, cry me a river as far as I'm concerned. Somebody who has the instinct to engage in acts of violence for no reason other than some sadistic joy they get out of it is not someone, regardless of their age, that I'll lose any sleep over having their lives ruined by a criminal conviction. F*ck 'em.

gormdubhgorm

fritzelly wrote: »

They've killed someone and all the rest - I don't think you can get more messed up than that

They can I just watched a thing about Jon Venables on the back of this case.
He was named along with Robert Thompson for the Murder of Jamie Bulger.

Anyway when Venebles was released 8 years later he taught to lie by police, so he would not mess up his new identity/backstory.
They even scaled down the surveillance on him.
But he went of the rails and started looking at loads of child porn.
He got another two years for that.
Apparently he was going mad because his excuse was that he was afraid he would be found out.
But cracked and told a friend his identity.

Which is why I think it important that boy A and boy B remain - boy A and boy B in this case.

Seathrun66

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The Irish times said the interviews were conducted to the letter of the law.

Accomplice to murder is the same as murder as far as I can ascertain in Irish and common law. An accomplice is present at the scene of the crime. An accessory isn’t.

Funny enough the fact the shrink thought the boy had PTSD depends on him being there for the murder.

I believe they were too. The Gardai will have been uber-wary about getting anything wrong. Won't stop the defence lawyers on appeal from disputing it though. Particularly with the psychiatric evidence of PTSD meaning Boy B may not have been of a fit mind to answer questions. He was there from the assault going by his interview with the doctor but whether he stayed for the murder is unclear.

Easy for us all to say we'd have intervened. As a 13 year old I was pretty scared of some guys my age and older. I'd hate though to think I wouldn't try to stop a murder.

Sardonicat

n97 mini wrote: »

bubblypop wrote: »

And that fact that he called for her & was seen with her.

Which he told gardai.

He had to tell the guards! Ana's Dad answered the door to him and watched them walk off in the direction of the park! That's why the guards called to his house on the first place.