Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Seathrun66

anewme wrote: »

There will be zero public sympathy for this "unsafe " conviction.

Fair enough. But the conviction may be wrong. Boy B has certainly not helped himself.

PressRun

Never read or listened to the details of the last moments of her life, but read a bit about who Ana was as a person. Talented and sensitive were two word that came to mind. A girl that probably would have flourished once outside the toxic school environment. But also could not escape how sad and lonely she seemed to be, and how much she craved friendship.
A conversation needs to be had about how tough it is for these kids, the relentless bullying that can turn violent, the mental anguish a lot of them seem to be going through.
What a horrible thing those boys did to a girl so full of potential and her family.

Nobelium

rizzodun wrote: »

It's a fairly emotive topic but people need to stop comparing this case, in Ireland, with a case in the UK. Different jurisdictions, 26 years apart.

Ireland apes whatever liberals in the UK do. One of the reasons Ana is dead is the non existent deterrent to any crimes in this country.
Let's see then shall we, but given it's 26 years on, they are going to be given an even softer ride.

ILoveYourVibes

Nerdlingr wrote: »

I'll just post this again...

"Any person who aids, abets, counsels or procures the commission of an indictable offence shall be liable to be indicted, tried and punished as a principal offender."

He gave the other boy the cord to choke her with. He lured her there. He watched while she was sexually assaulted and beaten to death.

I would say he did even more.

Hal3000

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't have an issue with that. Hopefully it brings them round to admitting what they did. That's real counseling.

Otherwise they are just playing games.

Will Ana's parents be offered the same treatment?

Sardonicat

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

petrolcan wrote: »

Indeed. I did and I've no doubt that many of the posters in this thread did too.

Criminal records all round

As far as I'm concerned, absolutely. The vast majority of kids I grew up with did not engage in violent bullying. If done by adults it's called "assault" and carries a criminal conviction. It should be no different when done among teenagers.

What about the older boy who propositioned Ana for sex and slapped her on the bum? A fecking caution! !! Or the 3rd year lad who harrassing her on her youtube channel with sexual comments when she was in 6th class? 6th class.! And he would have known it too because he knew enough about her to make fun of her for having a "fake" mum and Dad . It's deeply disturbing that much of the bullying this child suffered had a sexual component .

Shemale

Wombatman wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0618/1056046-boy-b-ana-kriegal-trial/

How do a jury decide why the boy lied?

Was it proven beyond reasonable doubt that he knew of the other boy's intention to kill? I know he told him, but Boy B responded with total disbelief?

Dear Jesus, you must be his dad.

He lied at every opportunity, the Gardai did brilliant getting him to say he was there, I dont believe for one minute he left or was scared.

HE ADMITTED HE WAS THERE, when Ana was being sexually assaulted and strangled, he did nothing to stop boy A, he did nothing to help Ana, he watched.

He knew it was going to happen and he stayed and did nothing because he wanted to watch.

Monumental

MrMusician18 wrote: »

They were tried as adults
They'll get life, as is mandatory.

They were tried as children ,so their punishment will not fit their crime . Rip beautiful Ana

El_Bee

Because it was not admitted into the case as evidence, was Boy B omitting telling the Gardai seeing Boy A with his trousers open standing over Ana the 9th or 10th lie?

Seathrun66

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If my child did something like this I wouldn't be hurling abuse at the victim's family and the jury in court. Boy B's family are utter scum. This isn't about holding all parents responsible for all of their childrens' bad behaviour, but this particular crowd come across as unhinged, dysfunctional scrotes.

Abuse at the Gardai & Jury according to the news reports. Not the victim's family. Stick to the facts here.

ILoveYourVibes

Nobelium wrote: »

Ireland apes whatever liberals in the UK do.
Let's see then shall we, but given it's 26 years on, they are going to be given an even softer ride.

Yes and no.

They are kids now. They won't always be. In 4 yrs time they will be adults.

And adults who killed a child as a child are different to young offenders.

Besides they WILL offend again particularly after being in a young offenders prison. They all do.

I take your point though. It's likely the sentence will be far too soft.

petrolcan

anewme wrote: »

In what way, murdering an innocent and lying about it?

In any way given the amount of swearing and anger from their posts.

ILoveYourVibes

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Abuse at the Gardai & Jury according to the news reports. Not the victim's family. Stick to the facts here.

They were in the room. I am sure they FELT it was aimed at them.

Nerdlingr

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He gave the other boy the cord to choke her with. He lured her there. He watched while she was sexually assaulted and beaten to death.

I would say he did even more.

Eh, that's exactly my point.

Anyone who aids or abets a principal offender can be tried as a principal offender themself.
Hence why Boy B was found guilty of murder.

Zeek12

Sardonicat wrote: »

I don't think you need an app. You just need to not give your kid one of these devices .

This is it.
At what point did parents start treating these devices and the accompanying social media apps, as toys?

Kids as young as 9 or 10 with their own phones and full open access to the internet and apps. It’s so dangerous

I honestly fear there’s a wave of emotional, mental and even physical problems to come later in life for many of our kids from all this

Gimme A Pound

petrolcan wrote: »

Are you seriously telling me that you never did anything that could be construed as bullying when a teenager?

The point I'm making is that all teens did/do it, even without thinking. Give them a criminal record for it and see what happens. It'd be like giving everyone a 2:1 degree for writing their name on a bit of paper.

Moving the goalposts. It was violent bullying in your last post. Now it's "something that could be construed as bullying" which "everyone" is guilty of. Firstly you don't know everyone, secondly - don't judge everyone by your standards in order to feel better. The vast majority of people never engage in violent bullying, and damn right those who do so should get done for assault.

tayto lover

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Abuse at the Gardai & Jury according to the news reports. Not the victim's family. Stick to the facts here.

Ah ok, that makes it alright then. He’s a nice man so.

Sunflower 27

MissShihTzu wrote: »

No. I suppose not. But then again - Most parents should take an interest in their children's lives. Likes, dislikes, favourite programmes, who their friends are. Normal ****. No matter how busy their lives are. So I don't buy that. And I would most certainly ask to see their phones from time to time. But then, that's me.

I think kids can be far more savvy when it comes to hiding stuff on their phones than we realise.

I'm not going to blame the parents for not looking at their kids phones and knowing what was there. Maybe they did look, maybe things were well hidden.

Liking horror films, being into martial arts, for instance, doesn't necessarily mean anything sinister.

There's some very strange and evil stuff online and you don't have to be an adult to find it.

ILoveYourVibes

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Fair enough. But the conviction may be wrong. Boy B has certainly not helped himself.

Psychopaths rarely do.

You are way too naive to be a lawyer.

What is it like to watch a young girl die?? What do you have to have inside you to NOT break down like a baby and tell everyone?

You have to be something else. And he admitted he saw it.

Shemale

jmayo wrote: »

From humberlog earlier



Very weird alright.
I mean how many of us wouldn't scamper off to bed when our 13 year old kid is being chatted to at the door by Gardai.
And especially so when they have already been talking for an hour.

One might even leap to the conclusion he has nothing, but contempt for the Gardai.
Oh and couldn't give shyte when a young girl around the same age as his son and in the same school is missing.

Even the fact they didnt ask the Gardai in is weird, clearly a cover up.

I recall a rumour at the time it happened that one of the fathers dads roughed him to to make it look lile he was attacked by men, seemed odd to me at time but might be possible given this and calling Gardai scumbags

anewme

Seathrun66 wrote: »

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If my child did something like this I wouldn't be hurling abuse at the victim's family and the jury in court. Boy B's family are utter scum. This isn't about holding all parents responsible for all of their childrens' bad behaviour, but this particular crowd come across as unhinged, dysfunctional scrotes.

Abuse at the Gardai & Jury according to the news reports. Not the victim's family. Stick to the facts here.

While the victims family are sitting there, having had to listen to their son describre Ana as wearing slutty clothes and beding someonee he'd eant nothing to do with.

They should be right proud of that lad allright.

Daisy78

petrolcan wrote: »

Are you seriously telling me that you never did anything that could be construed as bullying when a teenager?

The point I'm making is that all teens did/do it, even without thinking. Give them a criminal record for it and see what happens. It'd be like giving everyone a 2:1 degree for writing their name on a bit of paper.

I didn’t, lots of well adjusted people manage to get through their adolescence without bullying others.

Faugheen

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I'm a lawyer.

See I call bullsh*t here.

Any legal professional worth their salt knows you can't base any case beit for theft of a packet of crisps or murder based on a few articles you read.

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Severely bullied in school.

That angers me no end too.

Other kids involved in making her life a misery.

Absolutely and anyone who took part in that bullying shame on them and anyone who stood by and watched and did nothing while she was bullied shame on them too.

I have no doubt the dehumanizing bullying of this girl lead those two predatory monsters to target her. Anyone who actively bullied Ana bears some responsibility for her death.

tayto lover

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Psychopaths rarely do.

You are way too naive to be a lawyer.

What is it like to watch a young girl die?? What do you have to have inside you to NOT break down like a baby and tell everyone?

You have to be something else. And he admitted he saw it.

I believe he was the chief organizer and planner of the whole lot.

Ursus Horribilis

Fieldog wrote: »

Dublin is a small place, I work with a girl who's brothers child was in their class, they are in class photos with the other kid's, she actually I'D one of them out of a class picture guessing having never seen them before....

It's small little things like that you never even think of..

It still doesn't make it right. Back when that Paddy Jackson/Stuart Olding trial was on the go, somebody sent me a photo of the lady who was supposedly at the centre of the trial. It later turned out that it was a photo of a completely different person :rolleyes:

We don't know the kid(s) in the photos circulating around Whatsapp are the right ones. And I'm uneasy about the social media lynch mob that assembles at times like these. It doesn't mean I don't wish these two "boys" ill but we need to be careful. Talking about lynching them, their parents and even their barrister makes us no better than them.

Lackadaisical

Grayson wrote: »

Kids find a way round it. Create anonymous accounts and stuff like that. We need far more anti bullying and equality teaching. Ana was picked on because she was just a bit different and we need to stop that kind of stuff happening. We need better systems in place in schools where kids can approach people and talk about it and parents can get involved. Sure social media companies can get involved but we have to address the problem outside of the technical sphere as well.

I think though they should contribute financially to those programmes. They pay very little tax and effectively a new form of bullying is a consequence of their business model. So they should cough up. They pay little or no tax anyway.

Dante7

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

And this is exactly what the jury decided and took 14 hours to do so watching all of those tapes over again. (They probably deviced on the guilt of boy A in 5 minutes).

I trust they made a good decision.

It does seem that it was a very robust and diligent jury. There can be no appeal based on not liking the jury's decision. That's not how it works. Any appeal would have to be based on inaccuracies of law or on the Judge erring on admissibility or inadmissibility of evidence, or in his direction to the jury. I don't think there can be an appeal due to his direction, as he seemed to lean towards being very careful with Boy B. An appeal for Boy B will likely be based on inadmissibility of the psychologist's report. Can't see that flying though.

Seathrun66

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

You’re assuming that the gardai the PTSD evidence will somehow convince a higher court when it wasn’t even admissible in this trial. This is the very evidence that actually definitely puts boy B at the scene of the crime.

Also one shrinks opinion isn’t itself absolutely guaranteed to win the trial, even if an appeal happens the new jury or judges may well discount the evidence even if it is deemed permissible.

It's pretty strong and consistent evidence going by the Irish Times and other reporting. Not to include it will give grounds for appeal for starters. I think it's clear he was at the scene but crucial questions are for how long and what was his role there? Captured leaving on CCTV soon after. At best he's a weak kid who did nothing to intervene and lied to protect himself. At worst he's a murderer.

El_Bee

The Parents were so brave, they stayed in court the whole time, heard every distressing fact, every awful detail. I believe they did it for Ana, they wanted to be strong for her for her memory, it makes me cry. To handwave the father's outburst is another symptom of our ability to accept and condone disgusting behaviour in our society.