Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

ILoveYourVibes

Seathrun66 wrote: »

No they didn't. Boy A stated he'd kill her. Boy B didn't take it seriously.

Yes he did. They discussed what else they would do too.

You don't think boy b asked why the **** i have to walk to this chicks house then 3 K to this house that i know every detail of.

They planned everything.

Seathrun66

brooke 2 wrote: »

I would be concerned about the few other names, beside A's and B's, that were in Boy B's copybook which contained details of their 'satanic cult'. Horrifying to think there could be other schoolmates out there with the same mindset as these two murderers.

My pals played with ouija boards. Pals also listened to metal and were into satanic stuff as teenagers. They're all mild accountants or IT guys these days.

Hoboo

Strazdas wrote: »

The prosecution may be taking the view that if he believed A was 'merely' going to sexually assault or harass Ana, he had ample opportunity to confess to this and say "Look, things got totally out of hand". It was the lack of a confession and lack of remorse that landed him up on a murder charge.

Again I can't disagree. Does that prove beyond reasonable doubt he knew she was going to be murdered? I dont think so.

Nerdlingr

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

We know they discussed killing Ana.

We know they discussed killing her.
But what I said was we do not know if they discussed a plan to kill her.
Small difference.

Seathrun66

Strazdas wrote: »

The prosecution may be taking the view that if he believed A was 'merely' going to sexually assault or harass Ana, he had ample opportunity to confess to this and say "Look, things got totally out of hand". It was the lack of a confession and lack of remorse that landed him up on a murder charge.

Yep. If he is innocent and could have come clean at first then he's blown it. Had there been a responsible adult there in the interview room instead of his mother would he have been more forthcoming and less embarrassed about sexual stuff?

Gadgetman496

Seathrun66 wrote: »

My pals played with ouija boards. Pals also listened to metal and were into satanic stuff as teenagers. They're all mild accountants or IT guys these days.

See what you can achieve if you don't go around murdering people...

ILoveYourVibes

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Boy B had no injuries.

No DNA link between Boy B and Ana either.

He admitted touching her.

Seathrun66

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It's actually very strong.

We'll agree to disagree. Gardai didn't think so and will be very relieved with the conviction. We'll revisit this after the appeal in 18 months. Time for bed. All the best.

ILoveYourVibes

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Yep. If he is innocent and could have come clean at first then he's blown it. Had there been a responsible adult there in the interview room instead of his mother would he have been more forthcoming and less embarrassed about sexual stuff?

That would have made things worse for him.

Also he 'lost' his phone several times.

Hoboo

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It's actually very strong.

I can't see how it is. Maybe I'm missing the part where it was proven beyond doubt boy B knew Boy A planned to kill her. I just can't see it.

Seathrun66

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He admitted touching her.

Again no DNA.

ILoveYourVibes

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Again, 'luring' implies knowledge of a crime about to happen. Possibly aware, possibly not.
He may not. But his conviction clearly is not strong.

I disagree. I think it depends on your perception ...The judge was female no?

ILoveYourVibes

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Again no DNA.

EXACTLY!

He touched her NO DNA FOUND. But he did. You don't get DNA every time you assault someone.

Nerdlingr

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Yep. If he is innocent and could have come clean at first then he's blown it. Had there been a responsible adult there in the interview room instead of his mother would he have been more forthcoming and less embarrassed about sexual stuff?

More forthcoming? This is the same kid that described her as a "slut" and commented on her being developed and more advanced that other kids her age. (Breasts, hips etc). All in front of his mother.

Hoboo

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I disagree. I think it depends on your perception ...The judge was female no?

Judge female? Really?

ILoveYourVibes

Hoboo wrote: »

I can't see how it is. Maybe I'm missing the part where it was proven beyond doubt boy B knew Boy A planned to kill her. I just can't see it.

They discussed it.

They were part of some satanic ...whatever.

He knew where the house was ....he knew it was a ****hole.

Why offer to lead a girl there to a dangerous isolated place?

Why the chord?

Strange thing to give to someone.

Of course he knew.

ILoveYourVibes

Hoboo wrote: »

Judge female? Really?

I'm not sure. I'll check.

tuxy

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I disagree. I think it depends on your perception ...The judge was female no?

No, it was Judge Paul McDermott

Seathrun66

Nerdlingr wrote: »

More forthcoming? This is the same kid that described her as a "slut" and commented on her being developed and more advanced that other kids her age. (Breasts, hips etc). All in front of his mother.

If there was a plan for something sexual (consensual) to happen with Ana then he is unlikely to have said it in front of his mother. Big difference in describing someone as you see her and your involvement in any prospective sexual relations. He tried to cover stuff and just got wrapped up in a tissue of lies. With the hindsight of conviction he'd likely come clean straight away given another chance.

Strazdas

Hoboo wrote: »

Again I can't disagree. Does that prove beyond reasonable doubt he knew she was going to be murdered? I dont think so.

If we were to believe he had no advance knowledge of Ana's murder, he could well have been found not guilty (or might not even have been charged) if he had been far more open with the guards. Instead, he told lie after lie and was extremely evasive, even after days of questioning.

Saying "I knew something a bit dodgy might happen to Ana in that house, but not murder" could well have seen him avoid the murder rap.

ILoveYourVibes

Hoboo wrote: »

Judge female? Really?

Actually no its a he i was wrong.

Seathrun66

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

EXACTLY!

He touched her NO DNA FOUND. But he did. You don't get DNA every time you assault someone.

No DNA implies he didn't touch her. A complete absence of DNA meant the police were aware from the outset that he had no direct role in the assault and murder. Likely he lied or mis-remembered.

ILoveYourVibes

Strazdas wrote: »

If we were to believe he had no advance knowledge of Ana's murder, he could well have been found not guilty (or might not even have been charged) if he had been far more open with the guards. Instead, he told lie after lie and was extremely evasive, even after days of questioning.

Saying "I knew something a bit dodgy might happen to Ana in that house, but not murder" could well have seen him avoid the murder rap.

Manslaughter ?

don't think they would have wanted to risk it.

dickangel

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He admitted touching her.

Where did you read that Boy B admitted touching her?

Hoboo

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They discussed it.

They were part of some satanic ...whatever.

He knew where the house was ....he knew it was a ****hole.

Why offer to lead a girl there to a dangerous isolated place?

Why the chord?

Strange thing to give to someone.

Of course he knew.

Think you need to read the case. Satanic what? Oh you mean the homework club?

Seathrun66

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They discussed it.

They were part of some satanic ...whatever.

He knew where the house was ....he knew it was a ****hole.

Why offer to lead a girl there to a dangerous isolated place?

Why the chord?

Strange thing to give to someone.

Of course he knew.

Because that's where kids take alcohol, drugs and indulge in sexual activities. As Ana fancied Boy A it's not wild conjecture for him to assume that some consensual sexual congress may occur.

Hoboo

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Actually no its a he i was wrong.

You thought the judge was female yet you're debating the case?

On that note, bon nuit.

ILoveYourVibes

Seathrun66 wrote: »

No DNA implies he didn't touch her. A complete absence of DNA meant the police were aware from the outset that he had no direct role in the assault and murder. Likely he lied or mis-remembered.

That isn't how DNA works. You can punch someone and not have DNA evidence. DNA profile on an object doesn't always correspond to the person who most recently touched it.

You should know this.

ILoveYourVibes

Hoboo wrote: »

You thought the judge was female yet you're debating the case?

On that note, bon nuit.

I don't wish you good night.

Hoboo

dickangel wrote: »

Where did you read that Boy B admitted touching her?

Same place it said the judge was a woman.