Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

iamwhoiam

https://www.thejournal.ie/who-is-boy-a-ana-kriegel-trial-murder-4650918-Jun2019/



Some very interesting reading online and now we know a bit more this case is horrendous . Boy A was planning this and walked out to meet Ana with intent
He never once till this day caved or faltered and not once admitted he did it
He stuck to the story that he was attacked by the two men and still sticks to that . That is the measure of a cold hearted young man

He apparently approached B to join his plan and so it enfolded
Two boys age 13 in one school who were sociopaths and at least one a psychopath met and planned a murder most horror . Horrible , frightening and terrifying to read .
I hope lessons are learned from this and someone has the courage to point the finger at the bullying culture that is surrounding our young people . The wider implication of the bullying and ostracism of Ana must be addressed as in my opinion it is intrinsically linked with the boys targeting Ana

May Ana rest in peace and the parents and brother get all the help they need to face each day .

Well done to the Gardai and the jury on this case who also must be helped to cope with their ordeal
.
These boys must in my opinion never get out as they both are a real danger to society . I hope someone has the insight to know that and the courage to voice it

ILoveYourVibes

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Yes, that's child logic.

Yes.

TBH leading someone to a place etc. Probably did not seem wrong or illegal. Even if someone else did kill her. It wasn't him. That couldn't be illegal could it? He wasn't going to MAKE her come. etc.

Even if he held her down for a little bit or shouted things and watched. He wasn't the one killing her. Was he?



They decided the one who wasn't going to kill her should call for her and lead her there.

When he actually saw her raped and killed he knew intuitively he would have to lie. It was probably only then he realized how awful it was.

And they still planned their lying a bit well for it being on the spot imo.

Sunflower 27

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

No. I totally get they didn't bring her there for pleasantries.

I think the mask etc was to frighten the sh*t out of the poor girl when she went into the dark house. Before they did what they set out to do.

I just wondered whether killing her was always their intention.

B followed to watch something. it wasn't snogging.

strandroad

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

I just wondered whether killing her was always their intention.

First he said he would, and then he came prepared. I don't think it can be explained away at all...

patmahe

The only people who deserve a second thought here are Ana and her family. How have we as a society, parents, teachers and kids evolved to a situation where a young girl's Mother was immediately concerned when she heard some people had called around and she had gone with them. Are we so indifferent to other people's suffering as a society that we choose to take the easy option and ignore it. I actually believe that for the past 10-15 years we've all been so caught up with the economy and social media that we have forgotten how to be humane towards each other in the real world.

These murderers have grown up in the social media age and I think based on the search history evidence that we really need to look at what children are actually exposed to at such a young age. Maybe the internet had nothing to do with it and it was always in them to commit these horrific crimes, but I do think the internet acts as an enabler, you can type any dark thing you like into a computer and almost immediately find like minded individuals.

My heart has broken for Ana and her family during this trial, like many I have actually tried not to find out too many details as its all so horrific and I am ashamed to say that. It means I am part of the problem, we need to drag this out into the light and try to learn from it, otherwise Ana's death was completely in vain and we as a society have failed her. Shame on us if that happens.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here with the whole social media/internet thing, fine if I'm wrong I'm wrong but lets have the discussion and get some answers, so there we're not all here in another couple of years talking about another similar case.

ILoveYourVibes

evolving_doors wrote: »

Probably didn't want to be seen with her in school.
.

No. They knew the boy killing her couldn't be seen with her.

volchitsa

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

No. I totally get they didn't bring her there for pleasantries.

I think the mask etc was to frighten the sh*t out of the poor girl when she went into the dark house. Before they did what they set out to do.

I just wondered whether killing her was always their intention.

Quite possible that they would have felt it was their best chance of getting away with rape.
They were certainly prepared in terms of material.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Do you think they were intent on killing her that day? Or was it something that got out of hand when she defended herself?

Yes. She was attacked by boy a wesring a mask the minute she entered the room. She wasn’t sexually assaulted first.

ILoveYourVibes

patmahe wrote: »

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here with the whole social media/internet thing, fine if I'm wrong I'm wrong but lets have the discussion and get some answers, so there we're not all here in another couple of years talking about another similar case.

You are not. I agree with you. But I am completely incapable of this. I don't have the right tools.

I am at a loss. I wouldn't know where to begin.

What questions do we ask?

strandroad

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

How do you mean 'geared up'?

I don't expect they had a pleasant chat on their minds at any stage.

When did he say he wanted to kill her?

Did boy A say anything about boy b?

He told boy B that he wanted to kill Ana about a month before the killing. It's in the reports.

He had protective kneecaps and a hoodie on and was wearing a mask, they all had Ana's blood on them. He had a backpack with tape etc with him. He hit her on the head immediately.

It wasn't a misunderstanding.

weldoninhio

Grayson wrote: »

Considering the DNA evidence, especially against Boy A I have no idea why they didn't.

The mandatory sentence for murder is life, there is no remission for pleading guilty early like there is for other charges. A lot of solicitors will advise their clients of this. They will also advise that if it does go to trial there is a very small chance that the trial will collapse on a technicality etc so there is a small % chance they will get off.

iamwhoiam

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You are not. I agree with you. But I am completely incapable of this. I don't have the right tools.

I am at a loss. I wouldn't know where to begin.

What questions do we ask?

The first question I would ask is how did the school deal with the bullying and ostracism of Ana . They were informed by her mother before she ever entered school that their were concerns about Anas vulnerability . Did the school put any plan or defence or safety measures in place ?

The second question I would ask is who can be approached to put legislation in place to make bullying a crime

The third is how do we guide parents to have the courage to ensure they check young teens online activity and to actually parent and take control


There is much more to learn from this and we must somehow learn from it for Ana sake and the other kids who are suffering

Sunflower 27

volchitsa wrote: »

Quite possible that they would have felt it was their best chance of getting away with rape.
They were certainly prepared in terms of material.

I don't think they thought they would get away with rape. Hadn't Ana already spoken about another guy hitting her on her backside? She would have said she was raped if she wasn't killed. She knew who they were.

The knee guards and gloves prove the intent wasn't just to scare her. They were going to hurt her

ILoveYourVibes

weldoninhio wrote: »

The mandatory sentence for murder is life,

It isn't for children.

ILoveYourVibes

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The second question I would ask is who can be approached to put legislation in place to make bullying a crime

I would be in favor.

Gimme A Pound

patmahe wrote: »

The only people who deserve a second thought here are Ana and her family. How have we as a society, parents, teachers and kids evolved to a situation where a young girl's Mother was immediately concerned when she heard some people had called around and she had gone with them. Are we so indifferent to other people's suffering as a society that we choose to take the easy option and ignore it. I actually believe that for the past 10-15 years we've all been so caught up with the economy and social media that we have forgotten how to be humane towards each other in the real world.

These murderers have grown up in the social media age and I think based on the search history evidence that we really need to look at what children are actually exposed to at such a young age. Maybe the internet had nothing to do with it and it was always in them to commit these horrific crimes, but I do think the internet acts as an enabler, you can type any dark thing you like into a computer and almost immediately find like minded individuals.

My heart has broken for Ana and her family during this trial, like many I have actually tried not to find out too many details as its all so horrific and I am ashamed to say that. It means I am part of the problem, we need to drag this out into the light and try to learn from it, otherwise Ana's death was completely in vain and we as a society have failed her. Shame on us if that happens.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here with the whole social media/internet thing, fine if I'm wrong I'm wrong but lets have the discussion and get some answers, so there we're not all here in another couple of years talking about another similar case.

Not a fan of this we and us and shame stuff. The only ones responsible are the murderers. Unfortunately it isn't new. There has always been a minority of degenerates. School and the teenage years have always been brutal for some. There has always been terrible bullying.

Not saying at all that that means we should just shrug it off and go "oh well" but shifting blame from those directly responsible is a dangerous game too.

More effective school policies, less sh1tty parenting, and serious limitations on social media/internet in general - the latter really does bring a terrible new dimension to the teen years. And abandonment of this nonsensical insistence that extreme porn is no biggie for young teens (by people who watch it and feel uncomfortable with questions being raised about it).

weldoninhio

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

The warders care support workers literally can't touch the little scummers in case they are accused of assault by some of the 'human rights' lawyers who infest such places like ticks on a dying rat.

FYP

They had a riot there last year when 2 little scummers weren't allowed out to the ice cream van, that visits every Friday, as a punishment.

ILoveYourVibes

weldoninhio wrote: »

FYP

They had a riot there last year when 2 little scummers weren't allowed out to the ice cream van, that visits every Friday, as a punishment.

Oh. I see.

patmahe

Sorry, I wasn't trying to reduce the blame for this crime by spreading it. The people who carried out the crime are clearly the most directly responsible and should be punished to the full extent the law will allow.

However there is also the question, what can be done to try and stop similar individuals feeling like committing a crime of this nature is an option for them. Maybe the answer is nothing, but lets at least ask the question.

vicwatson

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It isn't for children.

I think it is but a judge has discretion to call it back for a review in say 10 years

Lackadaisical

I think one thing we should be looking at is trying to actually teach empathy and become a lot more proactive about ensuring people aren't isolated in schools.

A lot of the worst aspects of bullying occur when someone is 'othered'.

You'll always get some aggressive bullying but you get a lot of passive aggressive stuff and just social exclusion too caused by the herd mentality.
When you add the distance and bubble effect created by social media it's amplified in a way that can become really toxic and it brings in global online participants that have no proximity or empathy at all. Then that grows into someone being treated as an object of entertainment.

We can control the local environment of a school and I think we need to look at it with a far more psychological lens than we do.

vicwatson

The third is how do we guide parents to have the courage to ensure they check young teens online activity and to actually parent and take control

This.

So much involved here. It’s gonna be fight time every time, then trust issues, then they’ll find ways to bury stuff parents aren’t meant to see. Snapchat is the most evil thing ever. Secret messages, pictures gone in 10 seconds, unless of course someone screenshots them and distributes without your knowledge. Worst app ever invented imo (unless you’re a teenager)

SirGerryAdams

It would put you off ever thinking about having kids.

Not having the power to know what your kid is going through or knowing they are getting bullied. I'd find that really tough to deal with.

vicwatson

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I don't think they thought they would get away with rape. Hadn't Ana already spoken about another guy hitting her on her backside?

This was reported to the gardai and an official caution was given

iamwhoiam

I count myself very lucky to have raised my teens in the days before social media
Parents need to take control over this and ensure the kids are safe but also ensure they are not involved in ostracism or bullying . Parents in my opinion have lost control to an extent and many are either too lazy or lack the skills to take back control of their very young teens
Lets find a way to empower adults again to be in control and guide and encourage our youth to be the very best they can be

sportsfan90

I made the mistake of reading a few articles on the case before going to bed last night and I struggled to get any sleep after reading them. The thought of them leading her to that house and how her poor body was left abandoned is haunting.

Ana had a sad story long before her murder took place with all the bullying that she suffered. Thinking back to my own childhood, there were plenty of times when other kids were mean to me and likewise I'm sure I was occasionally mean to others too. But I hope to god that I never made anyone feel like poor Ana did. I can't stop thinking about her family.

B_ecke_r

14 or not these 2 teens committed premeditated murder.

they shouild have been tried as adults.

you should be tried on your ability to differentiate between right and wrong and to commit such a crime and lie about it they knew it was wrong.

not sure if you can blame their parents as don't know much about their background - even Hitler had a ma

lessons have been learned from Venebles and Thomson so not sure they will ever be named.

ohnonotgmail

B_ecke_r wrote: »

14 or not these 2 teens committed premeditated murder.

they shouild have been tried as adults.

you should be tried on your ability to differentiate between right and wrong and to commit such a crime and lie about it they knew it was wrong.

not sure if you can blame their parents as don't know much about their background - even Hitler had a ma

"tried as adults" has no meaning in an irish court.

vicwatson

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I count myself very lucky to have raised my teens in the days before social media
Parents need to take control over this and ensure the kids are safe but also ensure they are not involved in ostracism or bullying . Parents in my opinion have lost control to an extent and many are either too lazy or lack the skills to take back control of their very young teens
Lets find a way to empower adults again to be in control and guide and encourage our youth to be the very best they can be

Easier said than done

B_ecke_r

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"tried as adults" has no meaning in an irish court.

fair enough. what I'm saying is they should die in prison.