Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Feisar

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Personally as I have said many times on boards prison is waaaay too soft.

There should be prisons like in the USA.

Let them work from 4 am to 12 midnight day in day out for the whole of their sentence. Boring manual Labour that is of benefit to society.

Life either means firing squad or compromise of full life behind bars.

I doubt any of the mainstream political parties we have would ever ever ever consider it.

Punishment is grand for some crimes. My preference would be for these two individuals to be removed from society as quickly and as economically as possible. Unfortunately this boils down to a bullet and an unmarked grave. Some may be squeamish about shooting kids, solitary till 18, then eradicate them.

tuxy

Penn wrote: »

I think Ana told her father she was going out and would be back later. He said she looked happy and so didn't think there was any cause for concern. I think after she was spotted with Boy B on CCTV in the area. I can't remember if the father knew specifically she went with Boy B or not.

The father answered the door when boy B called for her. Ana talked to the boy for a while and then told her dad she was heading out and wouldn't be long.

Fan of Netflix

Can anyone give me a quick summary of the physical/forensic evidence against Boy B? I've seen a good few people stating he was unlucky to get convicted and they thought he would get off + might have a shot in a retrial.

Berserker

weldoninhio wrote: »

The poor little murderers, eh? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yep, hugs, kisses and ice-cream for them both is the way to go, apparently.

joe40

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

In law an accomplice who is there is as guilty as the murderer.

Thanks for that, probably just watching to many American cop shows.

Penn

tuxy wrote: »

The father answered the door when boy B called for her. Ana talked to the boy for a while and then told her dad she was heading out and wouldn't be long.

Yeah I was thinking that was the case but couldn't remember fully.

tuxy

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Can anyone give me a quick summary of the physical/forensic evidence against Boy B? I've seen a good few people stating he was unlucky to get convicted and they thought he would get off + might have a shot in a retrial.

There is no forensics for him, his constant lies and backtracking in interviews is what got him convicted. The jury requested to watch all these interviews which is unusual(it takes up so much court time) . Usually they just get to hear the reports read to them.

fryup

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Can anyone give me a quick summary of the physical/forensic evidence against Boy B? I've seen a good few people stating he was unlucky to get convicted and they thought he would get off + might have a shot in a retrial.

i'm sure his legal team will put in an appeal

Woke Hogan

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Personally as I have said many times on boards prison is waaaay too soft.

There should be prisons like in the USA.

Let them work from 4 am to 12 midnight day in day out for the whole of their sentence. Boring manual Labour that is of benefit to society.

Life either means firing squad or compromise of full life behind bars.

I doubt any of the mainstream political parties we have would ever ever ever consider it.

Thank god. The American prison system is a complete basket case, anyone who thinks we should emulate any aspects of it here needs to wake up from their revenge fantasies.

ohnonotgmail

joe40 wrote: »

Thanks for that, probably just watching to many American cop shows.

In america they interpret it much more broadly. If you are involved in a crime in which somebody dies you are guilty of murder. There have been cases of home robberies where one of the robbers was shot and killed by the homeowner and everybody involved in the robbery was convicted of murder.

Penn

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Can anyone give me a quick summary of the physical/forensic evidence against Boy B? I've seen a good few people stating he was unlucky to get convicted and they thought he would get off + might have a shot in a retrial.

There was none, bar CCTV footage of him walking with Ana towards the spot. The case against him was mostly based on how he repeatedly lied and changed his story during interviews, each time revealing/admitting he was closer and closer to the point he finally admitted he was in the room and saw what Boy A did to her.

He was definitely involved and likely would have been found guilty of something, it was just whether his interviews carried enough weight for him to be convicted of murder itself (not having actually physically murdered her, but knowingly having had enough involvement in the cause of her murder and being present for it).

When these boys are released I don’t want them to pose a further danger to society, insofar as this can be prevented. My Pollyanna dream would be that prison would offer them the following:

1. Reinforcement that what they did was at the extreme end of being wrong and that’s why they are there.

2. The possibility of being able to be a much better person in the future and that restitution can be made.

3. To learn the rights of all humans and living beings, including themselves, matched with responsibilities.

4. To gain insights into what it is like to walk in other people’s shoes.

5 To gain an education so that they might be self-supporting in the future, or at least have a more rounded view of the world and an aspiration to learn more.

6 To get whatever psychological or medical help that might help to prevent them reoffending, To learn to be able to desist and deflect from perversion to sexual violence.

All that is an enormous ask of prison, educational and social services. They would need to know of role models of people who have transformed their lives from sexual violence, and they are thin enough on the ground. I’m guessing the families might not have too many good role models amongst their males.

Otherwise one or both of these boys will be a further significant danger to society when they are released, and indeed be in danger of their own lives if anyone gives a fcuk about the latter.

There is little way they will escape attention when they are released, other inmates will leak it out when they too get out. Ireland is too small a country to change identity without somebody getting word, and Britain will probably be out with Brexit etc. If one or both are from other European countries maybe they could merge into those societies with maybe a head start on language from parents etc.

Fan of Netflix

tuxy wrote: »

There is no forensics for him, his constant lies and backtracking in interviews is what got him convicted. The jury requested to watch all these interviews which is unusual(it takes up so much court time) as usually they just get to hear the reports read to them.

Strange then, so basically if he no commented he would have got off. I'd say he may have a shot in a retrial if there is no forensic on him.

But I also seen someone say he had blood on his shoes?

optogirl

So many hard men on here wanting to shoot, maim, hang two 13 year olds and in the same breath can't understand how these boys can have been so violent or aggressive. Maybe their Dads were the type to spout about the things the'yd like to do to anyone who they didn't agree with/like.

These boys deserve their punishment, no doubt about it and as a society we have some serious issues to deal with with regard to internet access, smartphones, porn, bullying and all the rest but to bang on about how they should be kept in isolation and shot on their 18th birthday is absurd and the very type of institutional criminality that has led to the epidemic of mental ill health in this country.

nehemiah

tuxy wrote: »

There is no forensics for him, his constant lies and backtracking in interviews is what got him convicted. The jury requested to watch all these interviews which is unusual(it takes up so much court time) . Usually they just get to hear the reports read to them.

Not quite, the prosecution presented videos of these interviews to the jury in order to allow the jury to see the boy's demeanour, which is unusual for the reasons you state.

The jury requested to re-watch the videos during their deliberations.

Only other evidence really was him collecting Anna and the CCTV placing him with her in the park.

theguzman

I have always favoured the death penalty and age should be no barrier to it, both of these inhuman pieces of filth should be strung from the gallows. If I was that poor girls parent I would exact my revenge on them both, because thanks to our leftwing policing and justice system they will be out in less than 5 years. You only get life in Ireland if you kill a politician or Garda.

RandomName2

I wonder how much Ana Kriegel's social isolation made A and B feel that they had a licence to what whatever they wanted with her.

weldoninhio

Deleted User wrote: »

When these boys are released I don’t want them to pose a further danger to society, insofar as this can be prevented. My Pollyanna dream would be that prison would offer them the following:

1. Reinforcement that what they did was at the extreme end of being wrong and that’s why they are there.

2. The possibility of being able to be a much better person in the future and that restitution can be made.

3. To learn the rights of all humans and living beings, including themselves, matched with responsibilities.

4. To gain insights into what it is like to walk in other people’s shoes.

5 To gain an education so that they might be self-supporting in the future, or at least have a more rounded view of the world and an aspiration to learn more.

6 To get whatever psychological or medical help that might help to prevent them reoffending, To learn to be able to desist and deflect from perversion to sexual violence.

All that is an enormous ask of prison, educational and social services. They would need to know of role models of people who have transformed their lives from sexual violence, and they are thin enough on the ground. I’m guessing the families might not have too many good role models amongst their males.

Otherwise one or both of these boys will be a further significant danger to society when they are released, and indeed be in danger of their own lives if anyone gives a fcuk about the latter.

There is little way they will escape attention when they are released, other inmates will leak it out when they too get out. Ireland is too small a country to change identity without somebody getting word, and Britain will probably be out with Brexit etc. if one or both are from other European countries maybe they could merge into those societies with maybe a head start on language from parents etc.

We have different views of punishment of this type of crime. Mine a a lot more succinct.

1. Bullet.
2. Rope.

nehemiah

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Strange then, so basically if he no commented he would have got off. I'd say he may have a shot in a retrial if there is no forensic on him.

But I also seen someone say he had blood on his shoes?

Nope, that was Boy A

Bobeagleburger

There names will be out in the open soon. Ireland isn't a big country and with social media these days things are impossible to keep quiet.

weldoninhio

optogirl wrote: »

So many hard men on here wanting to shoot, maim, hang two 13 year olds and in the same breath can't understand how these boys can have been so violent or aggressive. Maybe their Dads were the type to spout about the things the'yd like to do to anyone who they didn't agree with/like.

These boys deserve their punishment, no doubt about it and as a society we have some serious issues to deal with with regard to internet access, smartphones, porn, bullying and all the rest but to bang on about how they should be kept in isolation and shot on their 18th birthday is absurd and the very type of institutional criminality that has led to the epidemic of mental ill health in this country.

Cool story bro. :rolleyes:

Bobeagleburger

theguzman wrote: »

I have always favoured the death penalty and age should be no barrier to it, both of these inhuman pieces of filth should be strung from the gallows. If I was that poor girls parent I would exact my revenge on them both, because thanks to our leftwing policing and justice system they will be out in less than 5 years. You only get life in Ireland if you kill a politician or Garda.

A quick death? That's the easy way out.

Fair play on the keyboard warrior skills though!

Somedaythefire

weldoninhio wrote: »

We have different views of punishment of this type of crime. Mine a a lot more succinct.

1. Bullet.
2. Rope.

Do you not see the irony in this?

Penn

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Strange then, so basically if he no commented he would have got off. I'd say he may have a shot in a retrial if there is no forensic on him.

But I also seen someone say he had blood on his shoes?

No blood on his shoes, that was Boy A. Doubt he'd have much of a shot in a retrial though. They can't get a retrial unless there was a procedural error as far as I know, and the interviews were already examined to make sure the detectives interviewing him carried them out in accordance with the rules, which they did.

MrFresh

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Strange then, so basically if he no commented he would have got off. I'd say he may have a shot in a retrial if there is no forensic on him.

But I also seen someone say he had blood on his shoes?

There has to be a reason for an appeal. You can't just do it for the sake of it.

20silkcut

RandomName2 wrote: »

I wonder how much Ana Kriegel's social isolation made A and B feel that they had a licence to what whatever they wanted with her.

Bullying is a shocking curse on anyone.
Hopefully all those who engaged in will have a long hard look at themselves.

Feisar

optogirl wrote: »

So many hard men on here wanting to shoot, maim, hang two 13 year olds and in the same breath can't understand how these boys can have been so violent or aggressive. Maybe their Dads were the type to spout about the things the'yd like to do to anyone who they didn't agree with/like.

These boys deserve their punishment, no doubt about it and as a society we have some serious issues to deal with with regard to internet access, smartphones, porn, bullying and all the rest but to bang on about how they should be kept in isolation and shot on their 18th birthday is absurd and the very type of institutional criminality that has led to the epidemic of mental ill health in this country.

Nothing at all about being hard, I want them removed from society, if we had the tech to freeze them forever like in Minority Report that'd be grand. Unfortunately we don't, solitary till they die seems cruel, bullet is really the best option for everyone. A poster above goes on about rehabilitation to ensure they don't re-offend. If only there was a way to ensure this...

optogirl

optogirl wrote: »

So many hard men on here wanting to shoot, maim, hang two 13 year olds and in the same breath can't understand how these boys can have been so violent or aggressive. Maybe their Dads were the type to spout about the things the'yd like to do to anyone who they didn't agree with/like.

just to be clear

your point about how people should be allowed to express themselves on message boards depends upon equating the premeditated sexual assault and brutal murder of a 14 year old girl with the phrase something you "dont agree with/like"


just to be clear, like

joe40

theguzman wrote: »

I have always favoured the death penalty and age should be no barrier to it, both of these inhuman pieces of filth should be strung from the gallows. If I was that poor girls parent I would exact my revenge on them both, because thanks to our leftwing policing and justice system they will be out in less than 5 years. You only get life in Ireland if you kill a politician or Garda.

Ireland's justice system is similar to most of western world, excluding America. We're not going back to capital punishment anytime soon.

Some people would appear to prefer Saudi Arabia type justice, or something out of the middle ages.

Lucuma

Very glad the jury were brave enough to convict Boy B. RTE news yesterday showed visual of the park and the derelict house. He took her on a 3km journey including across farmer's fields (private property). She was an extremely tall, athletic, healthy and strong girl. The element of surprise would have been key in bringing her down. That was what Boy B provided. He must have told her 'go into that house there now and Boy A is waiting for you'. He must have told her which specific room to go into in the house to make sure that Boy A could come up behind her and overpower her. He knew he wasn't taking a vulnerable girl who he himself described as a weirdo cross country on a 3km ramble and sending her into a disgusting falling down dangerous old ruin so she could have something nice happen to her like! He knew damn well what was going to happen to her. And so he is guilty of murder.

The whole thing wouldnt' have been possible without Boy B. He played a crucial role. He was central to the murder even though he didnt' physically lift a finger, so he is guilty

Reading the Irish Times article I saw something I had seen mentioned on reddit when the boys were first arrested but never seen since and had hoped it wasn't true

'Other injuries suggested there had been penetration or attempted penetration of the vagina with something but Cassidy could not determine what that something was. She also couldn’t tell if Ana had been conscious at the time.'

So that's why it was aggrevated sexual assault as opposed to rape. To be honest I don't understand how Boy A has had not just his parents but both his grandfathers in with him every day and also yesterday. There's nothing to love about him? Nothing